Is The Great Debate the biggest tease ever?

KevShmev · October 01, 2011, 09:10:35 AM

Every time I listen to it, that is what I think. The first few minutes are so great, the way it builds up with the drums, guitars, keys and samples all blending together wonderfully, but once the meat of the song kicks in, it becomes pretty ordinary, IMO. Don't get me wrong, there are some great moments, but overall, the rest of the song is a big letdown after that incredible intro. Anyone else feel this way?

johncal · October 01, 2011, 09:12:38 AM

Quote from: KevShmev on October 01, 2011, 09:10:35 AM
Every time I listen to it, that is what I think. The first few minutes are so great, the way it builds up with the drums, guitars, keys and samples all blending together wonderfully, but once the meat of the song kicks in, it becomes pretty ordinary, IMO. Don't get me wrong, there are some great moments, but overall, the rest of the song is a big letdown after that incredible intro. Anyone else feel this way?

YES

7thHanyou · October 01, 2011, 09:12:52 AM

I've always been under the impression that the whole song is rather ordinary.

Mladen · October 01, 2011, 09:13:34 AM

The intro sets the mood, but once the beautiful melodies kick in, I'm overwhelmed by joy. It's just filled with remarkable moments. It's like having a great song sandwiched between atmospheric intro and outro.

DarkLord_Lalinc · October 01, 2011, 09:15:39 AM

I really love unconditionally the whole thing. Top 10 DT song for me.

BlobVanDam · October 01, 2011, 09:17:22 AM

The overblown intro/outro is always what put me off the song, but I've always loved the "meat" of it. (go ahead, quote that out of context. It's just begging for it).

It's my least favourite song from SDOIT, but I still think it's a really good song, and I think the quality is fairly consistent, and the intro isn't better than the rest.

ZKX-2099 · October 01, 2011, 09:24:54 AM

Yeah there is an energy drop right when the samples first end. But it picks up at "HUMAN KIND HAS REACHED A TURNING POINT" part.

bss4life15 · October 01, 2011, 09:37:57 AM

Quote from: KevShmev on October 01, 2011, 09:10:35 AM
Every time I listen to it, that is what I think. The first few minutes are so great, the way it builds up with the drums, guitars, keys and samples all blending together wonderfully, but once the meat of the song kicks in, it becomes absolutely amazing, IMO. Anyone else feel this way?

Yes

Jamesman42 · October 01, 2011, 09:40:40 AM

No. At least not that part. The way the instrumental goes to the outro is the biggest tease ever.

I love this song. Such a unique sort of song.

gabeh1018 · October 01, 2011, 10:12:38 AM

I would say the intensity of the song does drop once the vocals hit, but I do like the chorus and love the instrumental section.

ResultsMayVary · October 01, 2011, 10:15:08 AM

I don't agree. I love this song all the way through and it is one of the few DT songs that have the most bizzare song structure.

krands85 · October 01, 2011, 10:39:13 AM

It's my second favourite on 6Degrees after TGP, though I don't enjoy it quite as much as I used to. I've always liked the way the song is structured.

Dimitrius · October 01, 2011, 10:41:09 AM

I see what you mean, but I still love it and think it's the third best song on the album.

El JoNNo · October 01, 2011, 11:07:29 AM

No A Rite of Passage is a tease. It starts out awesome then turns to pure shit.

Jaffa · October 01, 2011, 11:12:16 AM

Quote from: 7thHanyou on October 01, 2011, 09:12:52 AM
I've always been under the impression that the whole song is rather ordinary.

This.

And I'm so glad I didn't have to be the one to say it.

Madman Shepherd · October 01, 2011, 11:34:57 AM

Wow...I'm quite surprised at the opinions. The Great Debate is one of those songs that I just COULD NOT get into when the album first came out. I would listen to it and it would immediately turn into background music for me...I just didn't like it that much.

Then one day it was on in the background and I heard the "Turn to the light" part...after hearing it however many times before, and it hit me. I love the song.

I guess when you think about it there is no part that is overly emotional that makes you bang your head and pump your fist, but that in a way is what the chorus does for me. This song is more of a journey than a destination and I'm glad I came around and love it now.

Zydar · October 01, 2011, 11:35:53 AM

It's a great song, I don't really see the problem with it.

MirzekDT · October 01, 2011, 12:12:01 PM

It's my favorite song on SDOIT after Misunderstood it's pretty much perfect.

ZirconBlue · October 01, 2011, 12:12:23 PM

Quote from: Zydar on October 01, 2011, 11:35:53 AM
It's a great song, I don't really see the problem with it.

Ħ · October 01, 2011, 12:14:37 PM

Yeah, the intro/outro are AMAZING, but once you hit that main riff, it's just like....okay.

lumpy33 · October 01, 2011, 12:21:34 PM

a top 5 song out of the whole discography for me. i love the build, the subject matter, and all the great action in the middle. i've always felt this was one of their best written songs, since there's no instrumental tangent after the "song" part of the song is over, like most of their long form tunes. all the d.t. goodness is actually built into the song itself. brilliant. and when that first riff comes in again just before the outro - it's d.t. mosh bliss. that moment doesn't last nearly long enough for me.

energythief · October 01, 2011, 01:09:10 PM

I love everything but the intro/outro - mainly because I hate the types of "news" programs and talking heads represented in the clips. It's not science, it's entertainment.

HarlequinForest · October 01, 2011, 01:14:15 PM

Hmm, I disagree. The intro/samples are what keep the song from being one of their greatest.

olliemedsy · October 01, 2011, 01:19:07 PM

i really love this song, but i always forget about it for some reason

Cranky · October 01, 2011, 01:40:57 PM

It's an interesting song.. But, somehow I just forget about it.
For the most part, it's pretty good, but I don't really like it.

There are some catchy and cool vocal/ lyrical moments.

Hmm, I would have to agree, it feels kind of like a cop-out when the song finally picks up momentum. The intro/ build-up was really promising, then it just gets... Eh.

Miyazaki74 · October 01, 2011, 01:49:26 PM

Nah, I don't think their's a big let down at all. That riff that leads into the vocals is sick IMO.

Progmetty · October 01, 2011, 02:00:44 PM

Quote from: HarlequinForest on October 01, 2011, 01:14:15 PM
Hmm, I disagree. The intro/samples are what keep the song from being one of their greatest.

Exactly this.

carl320 · October 01, 2011, 02:06:47 PM

I think it's a great song, but can never get over the sudden change of feel when the keyboard solo starts. The guitar solo returns to the original feel of the song though (and is one of my favorite on the album).

Banny · October 01, 2011, 02:13:03 PM

Quote from: DarkLord_Lalinc on October 01, 2011, 09:15:39 AM
I really love unconditionally the whole thing. Top 10 DT song for me.

This.

To those who have seen The Great Debate played live since ADTOE, how are the samples going? My biggest qualm with TGD (And other songs for that matter) in the past has been that the samples don't live up properly live as that's basically impossible to line up without a click track. But where Dream Theater are playing songs at the tempo of the recordings, are the samples ending appropriately?

Can't wait to see one of my favourite Dream Theater songs live next week for the first time.

I've seen many a DT show, but I've never had the pleasure of The Great Debate live.

MasterShakezula · October 01, 2011, 04:06:01 PM

TGD's probably my favorite song off of Six Degrees, though it's a tough call on that one, all around; so much greatness going on there.

It is a very weird and off-kilter DT song in some ways. That sorta oddness really didn't come back in DT's albums until ADTOE, IMO.

fadetoblackdude7 · October 01, 2011, 04:09:06 PM

Disagree......the entire song has a very smooth flow from start to finish imo

The Silent Cody · October 01, 2011, 04:09:33 PM

Quote from: KevShmev on October 01, 2011, 09:10:35 AM
Every time I listen to it, that is what I think. The first few minutes are so great, the way it builds up with the drums, guitars, keys and samples all blending together wonderfully, but once the meat of the song kicks in, it becomes pretty ordinary, IMO. Don't get me wrong, there are some great moments, but overall, the rest of the song is a big letdown after that incredible intro. Anyone else feel this way?

I had the same feel when I heard it for the first time and that feeling last for very long... The Great Debate was my least favorite from 6DOIT. But now, after years that song has grow on me very much. It doesn't beat down The Glass Prison and Blind Faith and 6DOIT of course, it's above Misunderstood and Disaapear.

Infinite Cactus · October 01, 2011, 06:31:56 PM

I don't know about tease, but I do know that I feel like with a few edits in the middle, it could be higher on my list. I like it, but I feel like it loses a little momentum right before the instrumental section. It regains it but its a mood killer sometimes.

ibosmiley · October 01, 2011, 06:38:53 PM

I don't really have a problem with the song either myself. I rather like it and I'm kind of psyched that they're playing it out for the North America tour.

I've always kind of thought that the first disc of 6DOIT kind of got overshadowed by the title track a lil bit. Those first 5 songs are all great IMHO.

ddtonfire · October 01, 2011, 06:48:46 PM

It reminds me of riding the Bell curve.

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Is The Great Debate the biggest tease ever?