I just have to get this out...

[JoeH]

I know many have already said it plenty of times, but I really haven't been able to express my personal opinion about 'A Dramatic Turn of Events'. This album, to me, is the album that Dream Theater has been bursting at the seams to make. I'm not saying, in the slightest, that Mike leaving the band has anything to do with that. I just think that they discovered what was missing from their latest albums and applied it to all of the good things that have never failed showing up. I have listened to this album so many times now and something new ALWAYS pops out. When I have tough days at work? I listen to this album during my lunch break to revitalize. It is THAT inspiring. The writing. The instrumentation. The beautiful concepts. This is the definitive Dream Theater album for me and I have been a fan for nearly my entire life (25 years old -- been listening since 1992). I just want to thank John, James, Jordan, John, and Jordan for this treasure piece of music. You have all absolutely outdone yourselves and deserve gigantic pats on the back.

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

I didn't know Mangini changed his name to Jordan. Guess they wanted it to be all Js...

But no seriously, I totally get what you mean. It's a great album.

[FlyingBIZKIT]

It's outstanding.

[kirksnosehair]

On the other hand, I think Mike leaving the band has everything to do with why this album is the way it is.

[Knguro]

On the other hand, I think Mike leaving the band has everything to do with why this album is the way it is.

I'm a good way of course. Is a monumental album. I can't even imagine the quality of the album whenever MM kicks into the writing process! 

[ResultsMayVary]

On the other hand, I think Mike leaving the band has everything to do with why this album is the way it is.

This. They got to write an album without MP's control all over it. And the fact there is no 'RORORORORO' vocals is pretty awesome, as well.

[goldfalcon]

Inspiring is a good word for it I think.  It just has this quality to it.  And you absolutely can attribute this record to MP leaving; whether some people want to say it or not, it just can't be that big of a coincidence.

Alex

[lyfeternl]

I am in 110% agreement with the OP and everything else that has been said thus far. My history with DT has an awkward and sporadic beginning, but the true love for all things DT came with ToT and the Live at Budokan CD/DVD. From there, all albums have been purchased and loved on immensely (...wipes off CDs...) since then. If I could go back in time and start out my DT experience in '92 I would, as I am 25 as well.

But in regards to ADTOE, I don't remember ever being so damn excited and giddy for an album and a band in all my years of loving music, musicians, bands, etc. I know for a fact my reasons for being this way are twofold: (1) This album has so much vitality in that the songs come alive with every listen and continue to gain my further love and appreciation and (2) this album came after a great trial DT endured. My best and possibly cliche) analogy for this is the creation of a diamond. It takes time, heat, and pressure...but the end result is worth the wait and the tribulation. MP was and is an amazing drummer. I, however, see his leaving as a catalyst which allowed DT to shine even brighter than it had before. With MM behind the drums, with his attitude and genuine humility and appreciation for this opportunity, with the band showing the fans during these recent shows that they can have fun again on-stage, the past year's hardships were worth it.

[Kotowboy]

It's outstanding on the backs of angels.

[hefdaddy42]

On the other hand, I think Mike leaving the band has everything to do with why this album is the way it is.

I do too.

[lonestar]

I completely agree, now go change your skivvies.

[Hprog]

This the album I was hoping for after all this turmoil. Of course the recent events had a (positive) influence on the album being the way it is. Some people convince themselves of hating it just because MP isn't there, but come on, how can you go wrong with this album? It's classical DT with a modern and fresh sound. The band sounds tremendously inspired and comfortable, whilst BC&SL sounds kind of constrained, at least to me.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

you are correct. this album is pretty goddamn awesome. thank god they got rid of the RAW RAW RAW

[smegolas]

On the other hand, I think Mike leaving the band has everything to do with why this album is the way it is.

I'm a good way of course. Is a monumental album. I can't even imagine the quality of the album whenever MM kicks into the writing process! 

Do we have any evidence that MM is a good songwriter?

[NickoMcB]

Although I really think some of the songs are really badass, I just still cant get over the loss of Portnoy in DT! I compare this to Rush without Neil, or Zep wo Bonham! It's just not DT without MP! They imo should have called the band something else. Now back to the cd, 1st off the cd to me sounds rushed out and not polished especially the vocals. Listen to the way JLB sings on Static Impulse, he has a way better sound and doesn't just sing the words on the paper. Also I think MM is way too held back on this. Is this from him not having anything to do with the song writing? MM has way more to offer and to me it sounds like he is playing too much straight 4/4. Don't get me wrong, a lot of this stuff is still way over the top, but comparing this to previous DT cd's I just feel some of the magic is missing. Can you even imagine a Rush without Peart?? I don't think so... Trust me I think eventually they will put out more really incredible music, but imo this ain't it...

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

Although I really think some of the songs are really badass, I just still cant get over the loss of Portnoy in DT! I compare this to Rush without Neil, or Zep wo Bonham! It's just not DT without MP! They imo should have called the band something else. Now back to the cd, 1st off the cd to me sounds rushed out and not polished especially the vocals. Listen to the way JLB sings on Static Impulse, he has a way better sound and doesn't just sing the words on the paper. Also I think MM is way too held back on this. Is this from him not having anything to do with4/4. Don't get me wrong, a lot of this stuff is still way over the top, but comparing this to previous DT cd's I just feel some of the magic is missing. Can you even imagine a Rush without Peart?? I don't think so... Trust me I think eventually they will put out more really incredible music, but imo this ain't it... the song writing? MM has way more to offer and to me it sounds like he is playing too much straight

No.

[black_biff_stadler]

How come some of you are knocking the "rororo" so much? It only appeared in ANTR. Are y'all synonymizing group shouts (a staple of punk) to death metal vocals?

[D_Halco]

Although I really think some of the songs are really badass, I just still cant get over the loss of Portnoy in DT! I compare this to Rush without Neil, or Zep wo Bonham! It's just not DT without MP! They imo should have called the band something else. Now back to the cd, 1st off the cd to me sounds rushed out and not polished especially the vocals. Listen to the way JLB sings on Static Impulse, he has a way better sound and doesn't just sing the words on the paper. Also I think MM is way too held back on this. Is this from him not having anything to do with the song writing? MM has way more to offer and to me it sounds like he is playing too much straight 4/4. Don't get me wrong, a lot of this stuff is still way over the top, but comparing this to previous DT cd's I just feel some of the magic is missing. Can you even imagine a Rush without Peart?? I don't think so... Trust me I think eventually they will put out more really incredible music, but imo this ain't it...

I can imagine a Rush without Peart, they came out with an album called 'Rush' with a drummer named John Rutsey, on the album was a song called 'Working Man' and it's a certified Rush classic!

Anyway, I think ADTOE proved that Dream Theater can do just fine without MP behind the kit. Yeah he was a part of the songwriting process, but he wasn't the ESSENTIAL part of it. JP and JR proved that. While I don't think this album is perfect, the lyrics are better, the instrumentation is better, JLB sounds better here than he has in years IMO, and the song structures and musical coloring are more varied and exotic than any album since SDOIT. It makes me excited for the future and that is something their previous two albums have not been able to impart on me.

[NickoMcB]

OMG really, MP had almost everything to do with the song writing.  He and JP were DT!  Remove either one and you have something called DT, but will never be DT. Of course this is my opinion, but the extreme level of involvement MP had in DT is fact!

[Jaffa]

OMG really, MP had almost everything to do with the song writing.  He and JP were DT!  Remove either one and you have something called DT, but will never be DT. Of course this is my opinion, but the extreme level of involvement MP had in DT is fact!

Nobody's arguing that MP was heavily involved.

Some of us just think the band is doing fine without his further involvement.

[i am fabio]

OMG really, MP had almost everything to do with the song writing.  He and JP were DT!  Remove either one and you have something called DT, but will never be DT. Of course this is my opinion, but the extreme level of involvement MP had in DT is fact!

Don't bring down a positive thread man.

[D_Halco]

OMG really, MP had almost everything to do with the song writing.  He and JP were DT!  Remove either one and you have something called DT, but will never be DT. Of course this is my opinion, but the extreme level of involvement MP had in DT is fact!

Don't bring down a positive thread man.

This!

[i am fabio]

OMG really, MP had almost everything to do with the song writing.  He and JP were DT!  Remove either one and you have something called DT, but will never be DT. Of course this is my opinion, but the extreme level of involvement MP had in DT is fact!

Don't bring down a positive thread man.

This!

MP this MP that i mean we have heard it a million times. Fact is (actually my opinion i guess) that this album kicks serious ass and is by far the best they have done in a long long time...I love MP but that probably has alot to do with the fact that he left.

[BlobVanDam]

How come some of you are knocking the "rororo" so much? It only appeared in ANTR. Are y'all synonymizing group shouts (a staple of punk) to death metal vocals?

So I'm not the only one annoyed by this silly generalization? Fantastic. Spoken vocals =/= RORORORO.
Bunch of other things too that people complain about apparently being on every single track that only appeared a couple of times each album at most.

[i am fabio]

How come some of you are knocking the "rororo" so much? It only appeared in ANTR. Are y'all synonymizing group shouts (a staple of punk) to death metal vocals?

So I'm not the only one annoyed by this silly generalization? Fantastic. Spoken vocals =/= RORORORO.
Bunch of other things too that people complain about apparently being on every single track that only appeared a couple of times each album at most.

No i'm with u his vocals weren't that prominent and i like em in Count. Sometimes though......wow did they seem forced? To me yes.

[BlobVanDam]

How come some of you are knocking the "rororo" so much? It only appeared in ANTR. Are y'all synonymizing group shouts (a staple of punk) to death metal vocals?

So I'm not the only one annoyed by this silly generalization? Fantastic. Spoken vocals =/= RORORORO.
Bunch of other things too that people complain about apparently being on every single track that only appeared a couple of times each album at most.

No i'm with u his vocals weren't that prominent and i like em in Count. Sometimes though......wow did they seem forced? To me yes.

I actually don't like them much in TCOT. And while I don't mind the ones in ANTR, I can easily see why people don't. I'm not saying they were always perfect and that people have no reason to dislike them, but I do feel their usage is greatly exaggerated by some people.

[orcus116]

Except on "The Shattered Fortress" but only, for me personally, because the lyrical content didn't quite match up with the tone ("Kindness!", "Courtesy!"). I felt a little role reversal between him and LaBrie might've done some good there.

[BlobVanDam]

Yeah, that one's not great, although I can overlook it since it's sort of MP's "song". It worked perfectly in TGP imo, but not so much in TSF.

[hefdaddy42]

OMG really, MP had almost everything to do with the song writing.  He and JP were DT!  Remove either one and you have something called DT, but will never be DT. Of course this is my opinion, but the extreme level of involvement MP had in DT is fact!

Heavily involved, yes.  But JP and JR were the main songwriters. 

[lyfeternl]

On the other hand, I think Mike leaving the band has everything to do with why this album is the way it is.

I'm a good way of course. Is a monumental album. I can't even imagine the quality of the album whenever MM kicks into the writing process! 

Do we have any evidence that MM is a good songwriter?

This doesn't necessarily answer your question but if I get longer than 15 seconds with MM during the M&G in Atlanta, I wanted to ask him if there was a particular fill, segment, etc (besides the polyrhythmic flavors) in a song that was 100% MM without any sway from JP's basic backbone drum tracks.

[m0hawk]

To the people who say that MP's departure made this album what it is, I MOSTLY agree with you. The Count of Tuscany sticks out as the one song in BC&SL that was "pure" Dream Theater, much like everything off ADTOE is. The fact that we got a song like that from that album makes me think that MP wasn't completely focused on DAY AFTER DAY stuff, and really enjoyed making atmospheric proggy tracks. So in that sense, I can't fully condemn him.

[kirksnosehair]

OMG really, MP had almost everything to do with the song writing.  He and JP were DT!  Remove either one and you have something called DT, but will never be DT. Of course this is my opinion, but the extreme level of involvement MP had in DT is fact!

Nobody's arguing that MP was heavily involved.

Some of us just think the band is doing fine without his further involvement.

I'd actually take this a step further now that ADTOE has been released and say that not only are they doing just fine, but it is fairly obvious that removing Mike's influence from the writing process was something that had become necessary were Dream Theater ever to break out of a decade long pattern of relative mediocrity.  Allow me to qualify that a bit, please....

Granted, there are some very, very fine tracks, lyrics and ideas on "Train of Thought," "Octavarium," "Systematic Chaos" and "Black Clouds and Silver Linings,"  And I would probably not refer to any of those as a "bad" album per se, but I think Dream Theater were becoming a bit stale and predictable - and more so with each successive release.  And while ADTOE certainly doesn't break any radically new ground for Dream Theater in terms of musicality or overall direction, what I think it does accomplish -which the predecessors I have cited failed to accomplish, imho- is it breaks them out of a pattern trying to sound too much like some of their more contemporary competitors, and it also demonstrates, quite clearly I think, that a more collaborative studio environment tends to benefit the output this group generates. 

Portnoy mentioned at the time he quit that the "personal relations" had soured and that was why he needed a break - he was having a better time working with other people in other bands.

I can tell you from first-hand experience, having just completed an album, the result of which was a multi-record recording contract, that when you are having difficulty getting along with the people you are working with, the output suffers greatly.  I wrote an entire album, and demoed all of the tracks with a great vocalist.  Then, when the time came to record the album, that vocalist was unwilling to bend on anything, refused to change any lines he'd sung on the demos and became so difficult to "collaborate" with due to his "my way or the highway" mentality, that he forced me into a position of saying "Ok, the highway it is then.  bye now"  And we let him go.  The music was suffering because one person was not happy in the group.  (that's the point I'm trying to make)

Once we let that guy go, and found a new vocalist -someone who was willing to work in a collaborative fashion- the songs on the album came alive in a way that none of us had imagined, and really, I think it's ultimately what led to us getting the record deal in the first place, because you can literally hear and feel the joy in the music.

I think that's kind of been lacking in the last few discs leading up to ADTOE.  The joy, the fun, they seemed to be gone.  I could even tell when I saw Dream Theater live a few years back they they all seemed to be phoning it in a bit.

When I listen to ADTOE, I hear a band that is reinvigorated.  Look at them live now as compared two years ago.   Myung actually smiling?   

Portnoy helped make Dream Theater what it is today, but in order for Dream Theater to continue on and grow, I think it was necessary for him to let go of it.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

ror

[gm5k]

because the lyrical content didn't quite match up with the tone ("Kindness!", "Courtesy!").

Yea, that part really cracks me up sometimes