Space-Dye Vest Live from 2011

[YtseBitsySpider]

I didn't click on it.

Why the fuck would Jordan play this song...at a live solo show.
(shakes head)

The essence of that song is that it's practically "Kevin's" song. I'm not a big Moore fan but jeeze have some class Jordan.

colour me...unimpressed.

[Slain]

they refuse to "lower" themselves to play simple music like space-dye vest.

It can't be that at all. It's not like Jordan consciously decided, "Man, this song is too easy. I can't be heard playing this easy shit." That way he plays is just his style. It's what he hears in his head when goes to play the song.

I agree with you. There's no way that he, or any of the other band members say "Yeah, forget that simple Kevin Moore shit. We can't lower ourselves to THAT level." JR just plays how he plays, same with KM. Both great keyboardists for different reasons.

[lyfeternl]

I didn't click on it.

Why the fuck would Jordan play this song...at a live solo show.
(shakes head)

The essence of that song is that it's practically "Kevin's" song. I'm not a big Moore fan but jeeze have some class Jordan.

colour me...unimpressed.

Yeah, I can't believe JR, a DT member, played a...DT song...and didn't think to ask permission to do so. I'm speechless...

Oh, and while we're on the subject, how dare JM play Tony Levin's bass parts from the LTE material found in Instrumedley... I sure hope JM asked first...

[The Letter M]

I didn't click on it.

Why the fuck would Jordan play this song...at a live solo show.
(shakes head)

The essence of that song is that it's practically "Kevin's" song. I'm not a big Moore fan but jeeze have some class Jordan.

colour me...unimpressed.

Yeah, I can't believe JR, a DT member, played a...DT song...and didn't think to ask permission to do so. I'm speechless...

Oh, and while we're on the subject, how dare JM play Tony Levin's bass parts from the LTE material found in Instrumedley... I sure hope JM asked first...

What about JR playing "Wait For Sleep"? It was also "practically Kevin's song" and most people don't seem to have a problem with it.

-Marc.

[bosk1]

Oh, and while we're on the subject, how dare JM play Tony Levin's bass parts from the LTE material found in Instrumedley... I sure hope JM asked first...

[Tony Levin in Jack Nicholson voice]"You have to ask me nicely."[/Jack Nicholson voice]

[Dublagent66]

Let's face it.  Even virtuosos like JR can't play that song like KM did.  Pretty much a given.

Whatever you are smoking ....  it must be pretty good.    I can PROMISE you that Jordan could play anything KM wrote and COULD emulate it exactly.   The point is why would you do that?  SDV, yes it's a classic, did I like it when the album first came out? Yep.   Did I like it every time I listened to it between then and now? Yup.   Did I like Jordan's version of it with JLB even better than the original KM iteration of it? ABSO_FUCKING_LUTELY! 

That was partially my point.  I didn't say that JR couldn't play the piece.  I said he couldn't play it with the same emotion and feeling as KM intended for it.  A particular musician's version of someone else's piece wasn't the basis of my point even though JR's version is well played.

[Orion1967]

I didn't click on it.

Why the fuck would Jordan play this song...at a live solo show.
(shakes head)

The essence of that song is that it's practically "Kevin's" song. I'm not a big Moore fan but jeeze have some class Jordan.

colour me...unimpressed.

And while we're at it... Who in the hell gave them ALL permission to play Rainbow's Stargazer?  I mean like WTF that is TOTALLY a RAINBOW song.   Colour me unimpressed too....

Yeah, I can't believe JR, a DT member, played a...DT song...and didn't think to ask permission to do so. I'm speechless...

Oh, and while we're on the subject, how dare JM play Tony Levin's bass parts from the LTE material found in Instrumedley... I sure hope JM asked first...

What about JR playing "Wait For Sleep"? It was also "practically Kevin's song" and most people don't seem to have a problem with it.

-Marc.

[slycordinator]

I didn't click on it.

Why the fuck would Jordan play this song...at a live solo show.
(shakes head)

The essence of that song is that it's practically "Kevin's" song. I'm not a big Moore fan but jeeze have some class Jordan.

colour me...unimpressed.

Covering a song you like == classless? Seriously?

[Orion1967]

Let's face it.  Even virtuosos like JR can't play that song like KM did.  Pretty much a given.

Whatever you are smoking ....  it must be pretty good.    I can PROMISE you that Jordan could play anything KM wrote and COULD emulate it exactly.   The point is why would you do that?  SDV, yes it's a classic, did I like it when the album first came out? Yep.   Did I like it every time I listened to it between then and now? Yup.   Did I like Jordan's version of it with JLB even better than the original KM iteration of it? ABSO_FUCKING_LUTELY! 

I think what he meant was that amazing players like Jordan are so talented that they refuse to "lower" themselves to play simple music like space-dye vest.  We all know Jordan can play circles around Moore, so no surprise there.  But with this song specifically it's so beautifully written that it kinda hurts a little to see it played this way.  If this was "Wait for Sleep" for example then I wouldnt mind because I know they are down to play it whenever, but this song is NEVER played, so it would be great to hear it as it was, obviously it wont sound like the cd, there were lots of effects and ambiance going on, but at least the piano. 

I've noticed people on this forum are very quick to get upset when someone talks favorably about Moore and not favorably about Jordan in the same sentence.  These are opinions, people are trying to express them politely(those who do) and I think comments like this are annoying.

Apologies if I hurt your feelings.  My opinions on the matter are quite simple actually.  Kevin Moore is the first DT I ever listend to.  KM was/is a pheonominal artist.  KM contributed greatly to the levels of success I think the band has now simply because of the fact that fans (like myself) first heard the incredible combinations of keys and guitar with JP & KM.   So do I like KM? Absolutely I do.   However.  There ARE also a few folks in this forum that seem to think that if JR plays anytihng KM did, he should either A. not play it or B. play it EXACTLY like KM did because it would be blasphemous to do anything less.   Personally I LOVE JR's playing and would rather listen to his keyboard work over that of KM so when I see comments like the one I initially quoted, I just shake my head in disbelief.  Re-reading the comment I quoted I can see how perhaps it was intended the way you illustrate it and that I may have taken it the wrong way and for that I apologise.   

[Orion1967]

Let's face it.  Even virtuosos like JR can't play that song like KM did.  Pretty much a given.

Whatever you are smoking ....  it must be pretty good.    I can PROMISE you that Jordan could play anything KM wrote and COULD emulate it exactly.   The point is why would you do that?  SDV, yes it's a classic, did I like it when the album first came out? Yep.   Did I like it every time I listened to it between then and now? Yup.   Did I like Jordan's version of it with JLB even better than the original KM iteration of it? ABSO_FUCKING_LUTELY! 

That was partially my point.  I didn't say that JR couldn't play the piece.  I said he couldn't play it with the same emotion and feeling as KM intended for it.  A particular musician's version of someone else's piece wasn't the basis of my point even though JR's version is well played.

That is true to certain extent I'll grant you but he can certainly play it with EQUAL feeling and emotion, perhaps not the exact same, but just as good.  imho anyways.

[YtseBitsySpider]

seems kinda like a slap in the face to me.....

Appologies to all you jr fanboys in here I kinda glazed over your "gee wizz he can play what he wants" posts.

No.
Actually he can't...or shouldn't.

How many times was that song included on the any set list....after KM left?
Just wondering.

[bosk1]

Appologies to all you jr fanboys in here I kinda glazed over your "gee wizz he can play what he wants" posts.

No.
Actually he can't...or shouldn't.

But why not?  I'm not getting where you are coming from on that.  If it were something that were very personal to KM that he felt strongly about, I could completely understand.  Kind of like if DT played The Best Of Times, I would think it kind of strange.  But in this case, why is it even an issue?  Again, KM couldn't care less whether it is played.  And since a lot of fans have been begging for it for years, what's wrong with Jordan and James throwing it out there?  I really don't see the problem here.

[ZirconBlue]

I thought it was pretty cool, personally.  JLB's idea to include the song was a great way to make that performance especially special.

[YtseBitsySpider]

Im surprised I'm the only one seeing it this way...and I don't even like the guy.

(from the wiki)


"Space-Dye Vest" was written by Moore, who brought the piece into the studio as a completed song. "Kevin Moore saw this photograph in a fashion magazine of a beautiful model wearing a space-dye vest and he fell in love with her," LaBrie said. "He carried that magazine around with him for ages, but he realized that the only way the innocence could be kept, so that he could retain that love for her, was if she stayed on the page. If he'd met her, all that would have been lost."[15] Portnoy recalled that when the rest of the band first heard the song "we thought it was so very, very different we didn't think we even wanted to fuck with it."[15] He said that if they had known Moore was going to leave the band, they would not have included it on the album. Portnoy considered "Space-Dye Vest" "totally 100% [Moore's] song",[19] and for that reason the band would never play the song live without Moore.[19]

[BlobVanDam]

Two guys played a cover of SDV. I don't see how anyone can take issue with the principle of that.
It's not like DT have played it into the ground without regard for it being something personal to KM. It was two members of DT playing the song outside of DT together, and paying tribute to KM's song in a special setting fitting of such an event.

[bosk1]

Im surprised I'm the only one seeing it this way...and I don't even like the guy.

(from the wiki)


"Space-Dye Vest" was written by Moore, who brought the piece into the studio as a completed song. "Kevin Moore saw this photograph in a fashion magazine of a beautiful model wearing a space-dye vest and he fell in love with her," LaBrie said. "He carried that magazine around with him for ages, but he realized that the only way the innocence could be kept, so that he could retain that love for her, was if she stayed on the page. If he'd met her, all that would have been lost."[15] Portnoy recalled that when the rest of the band first heard the song "we thought it was so very, very different we didn't think we even wanted to fuck with it."[15] He said that if they had known Moore was going to leave the band, they would not have included it on the album. Portnoy considered "Space-Dye Vest" "totally 100% [Moore's] song",[19] and for that reason the band would never play the song live without Moore.[19]

Yes.  But:

Appologies to all you jr fanboys in here I kinda glazed over your "gee wizz he can play what he wants" posts.

No.
Actually he can't...or shouldn't.

But why not?  I'm not getting where you are coming from on that.  If it were something that were very personal to KM that he felt strongly about, I could completely understand.  Kind of like if DT played The Best Of Times, I would think it kind of strange.  But in this case, why is it even an issue?  Again, KM couldn't care less whether it is played.  And since a lot of fans have been begging for it for years, what's wrong with Jordan and James throwing it out there?  I really don't see the problem here.

[slycordinator]

Im surprised I'm the only one seeing it this way...and I don't even like the guy.

I'm still surprised that you explicitly stated that JR doesn't have class for doing the song. I get that you think this is a song personal to KM, but calling it classless to play the song is just over the top at the very least.

And not only that, JR wasn't the one who suggested playing the song. If anything, you should be mad at JLB. JR wasn't around during the recording of Awake to see the extent that this song was personal to KM.

[YtseBitsySpider]

When did this happen anyhow?

A month or two ago?

Seems now that The Portnoy away, the boys have decided to play.

I find it classless because it's the one keyboardist that replaced the other. (derek was a burp on the way to jordan)And it was personal to Kevin. And the band....(while mike was there) didn't play this song.

I don't care that they dressed this up as something the fans have been pining for, or as some resepectful tribute to Kevin. It just wasn't neccessary.

opinions.
mine is different.

carry on with the "yay jordan" stuff.

[bosk1]

No, it was way back in the beginning of the year when Jordan did his solo show.  There were threads about it at the time. 

As far as it being personal, again, nobody (including Kevin) really felt it was all that person, other than maybe Mike.  And why should the fact that he subjectively believed it was personal have any impact on what people other than him do with it? 

The "opinions" thing is fine.  But you keep implying (such as with your "yay jordan" comment) that it is only the Jordan fanboys who think this is cool.  Problem is, there is very little of that in this thread (and same with the previous discussions back when it actually happened).  The vast majority of the opinions expressed here that are in favor of it are more along the lines of, "oh, that's cool that they did that."  It's not about Jordan cheerleading.  It's about the fact that people like the song, but nobody had been willing to play it in the almost 20 years since its release, and it finally did get played for the simple reason that the fans wanted it. 

[slycordinator]

I find it classless because it's the one keyboardist that replaced the other. (derek was a burp on the way to jordan)And it was personal to Kevin. And the band....(while mike was there) didn't play this song.

Even if you think that the song is too personal to KM for it to be played by someone else...

JR wasn't around during the recording of Awake to see the extent that this song was personal to KM.

Hence why I think it's unreasonable to label it classless.

[Cool Chris]

Ytse Spider, keep posting your opinions, man, I love it!

And are we really calling a song a guy wrote about a picture in a magazine too personal???

[Pols Voice]

Rudess and LaBrie knew many fans wanted to hear SDV, and they honored Moore by playing it because they actually like his work. Portnoy has said he thinks the song and Moore are overrated.

[YtseBitsySpider]

Maybe, pretty sure that the "song and moore are over rated" thing are why it was never played.

Guess now that the Mike is away...the band will play.

Guess Im in the minority of the fans who didn't want to see it played by anyone but Kevin. Especially the American Idol - Make It Your Own version I ended up getting.

[lyfeternl]

Guess now that the Mike is away...the band will play.

Yep, I (1) don't see anything wrong with that at all and (2) am glad they are.

Guess Im in the minority of the fans who didn't want to see it played by anyone but Kevin. Especially the American Idol - Make It Your Own version I ended up getting.

Guess we'll just have to chalk this up to haters gonna hate or whiners gonna whine, etc.

I'll echo Bosk somewhat and say that at least the majority here in this thread are simply enjoying the performance of the song. That's it.

If I've noticed anything about DTF since I've been viewing and "member-ing" it's that when you post 'minority comments,' expect people to respond.

[YtseBitsySpider]

^^no sarcasm - I 100% agree^^

with the minority thing

carry on enjoying then.

[theseoafs]

Maybe, pretty sure that the "song and moore are over rated" thing are why it was never played.

What?

[bosk1]

What?

He said, "Maybe, pretty sure that the "song and moore are over rated" thing are why it was never played."

[Infinite Cactus]

Not only is this old news, but why the is anyone upset with this?Go get a hobby. I literally imagine some of you in tears about the fact that Jordan played SDV. He likes the song and has said so. Also about not being able to tone it down, what about FFH or Vacant? Kevin Moore doesn't care, or even play the song live so what is seriously the big deal? It's not like JR molested it and then killed it.

[Dusk Till Dawn]

You guys have to remember that it was just James and Jordan.  The whole band was not there and Jordan had to fill in some gaps.  If it was played just like the original it would have sounded flat without the whole band.  Very interesting that it was finally played after all these years.

[Dublagent66]

Let's face it.  Even virtuosos like JR can't play that song like KM did.  Pretty much a given.

Whatever you are smoking ....  it must be pretty good.    I can PROMISE you that Jordan could play anything KM wrote and COULD emulate it exactly.   The point is why would you do that?  SDV, yes it's a classic, did I like it when the album first came out? Yep.   Did I like it every time I listened to it between then and now? Yup.   Did I like Jordan's version of it with JLB even better than the original KM iteration of it? ABSO_FUCKING_LUTELY! 

That was partially my point.  I didn't say that JR couldn't play the piece.  I said he couldn't play it with the same emotion and feeling as KM intended for it.  A particular musician's version of someone else's piece wasn't the basis of my point even though JR's version is well played.

That is true to certain extent I'll grant you but he can certainly play it with EQUAL feeling and emotion, perhaps not the exact same, but just as good.  imho anyways.

True, but not KM's feeling and emotion.  There's a difference.  Hence my original point.

[Samsara]

Not only is this old news, but why the is anyone upset with this?Go get a hobby. I literally imagine some of you in tears about the fact that Jordan played SDV. He likes the song and has said so. Also about not being able to tone it down, what about FFH or Vacant? Kevin Moore doesn't care, or even play the song live so what is seriously the big deal? It's not like JR molested it and then killed it.

I think it's pretty bold and uncalled for to tell people who don't share your opinion of the issue to "go get a hobby."

People disagree. That's the way it goes. No one opinion is more valid.

I actually agree that I don't think JR playing SDV with James is a big deal. In fact, I think it was a huge treat, because the two KNEW people have been wanting to hear the song, and thought highly enough of it to play it. THANK YOU to Jordan and James for that.

Sure, I'd love Dream Theater to play it. But if this is all we're ever going to get, a big thank you to those guys.

It's not classless in the slightest in my opinion. It was a nice tribute to a great song written by another great keyboard player and songwriter.

[Infinite Cactus]

Not only is this old news, but why the is anyone upset with this?Go get a hobby. I literally imagine some of you in tears about the fact that Jordan played SDV. He likes the song and has said so. Also about not being able to tone it down, what about FFH or Vacant? Kevin Moore doesn't care, or even play the song live so what is seriously the big deal? It's not like JR molested it and then killed it.

I think it's pretty bold and uncalled for to tell people who don't share your opinion of the issue to "go get a hobby."

People disagree. That's the way it goes. No one opinion is more valid.

If you've followed my posting history, I think you'll find that I have hardly ever, if ever really called out anyone for differing opinions. As a matter of fact, I usually call out people for calling out people's opinions. I don't even really like SDV that much any more, I used to but I got burnt out. I think its ridiculous that some people are calling everyone JR fanboys or saying that it somehow does a disservice to Kevin Moore as if his happiness and well being somehow depended on nobody EVER playing that song live . I'm sorry if I came off as an asshole. I guess I should have said "Go take a walk and calm down" instead of go get a hobby.

[Samsara]

You did come off as an asshole. But I don't follow your posts, so I had no frame of reference.

Good of you to come back on here and explain though.

I actually agree with you, as my post illustrated. So I'm with you about the topic at-hand.

[YtseBitsySpider]

and in the spirit of all around hugs.....I did call everyone fan boys....which was a tad uncalled for.

All in all my view on this was "asking for it"

so ya....smooches to all.