The lyrics of SC and BC&SL

[Jaffa]

Tl;dr version included at bottom of post.

So, it's no secret that a lot of DT fans don't hold these albums in the highest regard (I believe I saw a post earlier today suggesting that Systematic Chaos should burn in hell?).  It's also no secret that a lot of people are put off specifically by the lyrics of some of the songs. 

What I'm wondering, out of curiosity and for the sake of discussion, is how many people would like these albums better with different 'improved' lyrics. 

Because to me, personally, even though some of the songs are admittedly weak on the lyrical side, the music is still very cool to me most of the time.  Biggest example for me is Forsaken.  I've seen a lot of hate for the song, and a lot of it seems to stem from the fact that the lyrics are about vampires, a theme which has come to annoy many people because of its recent prevalence in pop culture.  But I personally think the keyboards in the song, and especially the intro, are beautiful.  And I think it has some really nice vocals.  So, hypothetical: Forsaken gets rerecorded.  All of the lyrics are rewritten.  However, the music and the vocal melodies stay exactly the same.  It's literally just the lyrics that change.  In this hypothetical, does the song improve for you?

Ditto for The Count of Tuscany, and Prophets of War, and Constant Motion, and The Dark Eternal Night, and any other songs which have lyrics you don't like.

Also, please keep in mind that I do realize some people have absolutely no problem with these lyrics to begin with.  To those of you who like the lyrics the way they are, fair enough, and feel free to weigh in.  But just for the record, the people I'm mostly curious about are the ones who think the lyrics are terrible. 

Tl;dr:  If the lyrics of Systematic Chaos and Black Clouds and Silver Linings were improved, how much would it affect your opinion of the albums as wholes?

[Mbarak]

I don't have a problem with most of SC's lyrics. It seems it was meant to be over the top and not to be taken too seriously. When you listen to it from this perspective, it's not really bad. I love SC and IPOE is one of all time fav DT tracks.

BC&SL on the other hand had a serious tone to it, and it didn't deliver lyrically. But to be honest, I don't think it matters all that much. The album's songs just seemed so stretched, just passage after passage of instrumentals that sound great on their own, but together just feel like they were forcefully stitched together.

[toro]

Forsaken biggest problem is everything.
ITPOE part II problem is "The Reckoning" not the lyrics.
TMOLS is boring in every way and the instrumental section it's so out of place.

So yeah, SC has some silly lyrics but I think the album(s) have bigger problems in the music quality.

[Pinga]

Minimally. To me, the problems with both albums are numerous (but they seem to have been dealt with); uninspired Rudess solos, JM (and, to an extent, JR) doubling JP too much, the drums and bass not acting as a rhythm unit, trying way too hard to be tough and metal (and failing miserably), MP's laughable singing, extending the songs artificially (by adding unnecessary long solo sections or repeating previous riffs too much, rehashing the same song structure), ridiculous lyrics, James's voice being criminally underutilised (to be fair, I noticed this only after hearing ADTOE).

So yeah, both albums have a way to go before I think they're good.

[Jamesman42]

The lyrics are not the problem for either album IMO except Dark Master. That part would immediately make me embarrassed to be a DT fan. Which really sucks because "Angles fall, all for you, heretic!" is one of JLB's best moments ever.

[orcus116]

Wouldn't change much since the music is still lackluster.

[7thHanyou]

Lyrics are the only reason I can't listen to The Count of Tuscany.  The song is very funny to me and I can't usually hear the music over the sound of my own laughter.  With better lyrics, it would really be up there with Dream Theater's best songs.  A Nightmare to Remember is also ridiculous, but that has as much to do with the vocals as the lyrics.

That said, BCSL is really an all-time low.  Lyrics have been getting noticeably worse since FII (really, the first two albums have the best lyrics IMO but Awake has its own flavor that would not be served by the more poetic lyrics of WDADU and I&W).  It was tolerable up to Octavarium, and for the most part, SC isn't that much worse.  I think The Ministry of Lost Souls is about SFaM level, and while Forsaken's lyrics aren't good, they're not particularly offensive.  SC's problem is not the lyrics, and it is not, overall, that bad of an album.  BCSL, however, is just kind of funny.

I&W's lyrics are so good that I could read them out of context and respect them.  FII and SFaM have more than functional lyrics in context; after that, well, you just kind of learn to accept them for what they are except when they're especially awful. 

If SC had I&W level lyrics, my enjoyment would increase.  Same with BCSL.  But they'd still likely rank as my least favorite Dream Theater albums, along with 6DoIT and ToT.  I doubt a change in lyrical quality would cause much fluctuation among my least favorites.

[Infinite Cactus]

I don't have a problem with most of the lyrics. If a song is goofy it's one thing. Example: The Count Of Tuscany is a silly story, it is awesome. The Ministry of Lost Souls lyrics are somewhat serious, but I feel it falls short on delivering it. Thus, I like TCOT's lyrics better than TMOLS. Whether they are ridiculous or not is not a deal breaker. I can laugh at TCOT because it's wacky. I'm more concerned when the lyrics don't make me feel anything at all.

[Bolsters]

On SC, the lyrics weren't the biggest reason I disliked the album as a whole. Infact when I first listen to a new album I take absolutely no notice of the lyrics for the mostpart, other than the hooks which are designed to be heard above all else. However even before knowing the lyrics of the album intimately, I disliked it based on the music. BC&SL was a little different as there is more music I can appreciate on the album, and despite still having a lot of iffy lyrics the songs are enjoyable in spite of it - TCOT being the prime example.

In short, I don't think different lyrics would change my opinion of either album much if at all.

[BlobVanDam]

I don't really have a problem with any of the lyrics on SC, or BCASL, and I don't have a problem with the lyrics on ADTOE. I do think the lyrics on ADTOE are better, but they never bothered me beforehand, and they never affected my rating or enjoyment on any of the songs on SC/BCASL, as is evident by the fact that some of the tracks that get criticized the most around here are in my top 20.

[?]

I don't really have a problem with the lyrics, it's the music that bothers me; they sound uninspired on SC and some songs on BC&SL aren't that great.

[Cranky]

As for Black Clouds & Silver Linings, wow... What can I really say about it.
It's one of my favourite Dream Theater albums.
The opener, A Nightmare to Remember just blew me away, I literally had to get up after the intro and pace around my room... Like, what the fu-
Anyways, I love the lyrics to this song, very fun, catchy, well-written and paced with the song.
8.2/10

A Rite of Passage is such a damn good song.... I just love it, so catchy, and that instrumental break gets me every time. I love it as a single, it's just so bad-ASS. I think the lyrics serve their purpose, they are *somewhat* cryptic if you don't know the subject matter, but I enjoy them. 7.9/10

I think Wither is such a damn good ballad. The lyrics are probably the *best* on the album for me, if I may compare them all in such a way, that Wither is the most emotional and from-the-heart. 8.5/10

I just LOVE The Shattered Fortress, it's the only 12 Step song that I really really enjoy, I love how it has parts from every song, and it just flows so nicely.. again, such a bad-ass, ball kicker. The lyrics are really good, very insightful and interesting. Jame's delivery is just mind-blowing, he does a good job soaring above everyone else in this song.  8.3/10

The Best of Times, it's a really cool song and all, I just can't get into it that much. I think the main theme and melodies are just beautiful, but I think it is just a little too long. For me, it's the weakest track on the album, but I still enjoy it. The lyrics are sub-par... I know they are supposed to be reminiscent and such, but I just can't get in them for some reason. 5.9/10

The Count of Tuscany, what can be said... Most people despise the lyrics, some people just forget about em and listen to the song...
For me, I enjoy the lyrics a lot! I think they are meant to be written like that, and it was a bit of an acquired taste until I fully understood the intent. The music, what can be said, it's just incredible.. But, I do think they can be a little bit too much at times, which detracts from the overall quality.  7/10     

So, basically, the album has above average lyrics, but below exceptional because of a few songs.
Final verdict:
~7.8/10