MP about I&W and ADTOE connection

[duncan3dc]

I think it's a real shame that the similarities are being received in this way. When I found out I was really looking forward to a thread on here discussing various sections as people discovered them.
*snip*

people are irritated, i think, because of the timing of this analysis. couldn't thiago have waited until the album was released worldwide, instead of poisoning the jury, so to speak? i wouldn't be surprised if the analysis was done using a pirated copy, anyway.

That's a good point. I suppose he wanted to make sure he was the first to point this out, which is a shame if that sours the whole thing. As it appears to have, particularly with Portnoy's comments.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I'm not playing anything, and I resent this "rose coloured glasses" bullshit. Rather than insulting me, how about actually giving me the explanation that I've been asking for?

As for apparently being an MP-defender, I'm not. But I do always strive for fairness and often find myself defending anyone that is being attacked. It just so happens that on DTF MP gets attacked more than anyone else.

That's because MP gives most "hating" material.

Also Rich, how does "a desperate attempt to re-write the past" sound passive to you?

[ariich]

Yeah like I said, that was a suggestion with negative tones. Though I still don't entirely know what he meant by it, which is often MP's problem, he's rarely clear with what he says. But either way, it was still that, a suggestion. Should we therefore assume that every piece of negative speculation here has also been an attack/insult?

And some seem to be of the impression that MP is attacking them for re-using song structures, even though he said it was pretty cool if they were intentional nuggets.

[BlobVanDam]

I'm not playing anything, and I resent this "rose coloured glasses" bullshit. Rather than insulting me, how about actually giving me the explanation that I've been asking for?

As for apparently being an MP-defender, I'm not. But I do always strive for fairness and often find myself defending anyone that is being attacked. It just so happens that on DTF MP gets attacked more than anyone else.

MP's suggestion whether it might be DT trying to desperately rewrite the past was a clear dig. Even though it was an "if", the fact is that he's the only one who brought up that possibility, it wasn't in response to anything that was already raised as far as I could see.
Out of nowhere he offered the idea that DT without him was resorting to desperate measures. It doesn't matter that he didn't outright accuse them. That's the core of passive aggressive tactics. He was hinting, thinking he still had enough room to claim innocence.

Trust me, I'm always one to defend MP if there's any benefit of the doubt to be given, but I think this is one of those times when MP was clearly being negative towards the band.

[ariich]

For sure, I can see that it's a passive-aggressive suggestion, I guess I'll never understand why people think they are such a big deal.

But some people have absolutely been talking about it like it was a direct insult/attack. I'm talking comments like "MP is officially an idiot now".

[hefdaddy42]

It's either a passive/aggressive attack, or he's an idiot.  And he isn't an idiot.

[Peter Griffin]

For sure, I can see that it's a passive-aggressive suggestion, I guess I'll never understand why people think they are such a big deal.

But some people have absolutely been talking about it like it was a direct insult/attack. I'm talking comments like "MP is officially an idiot now".

it's a big deal because MP has been constantly dropping "passive-aggressive suggestions," as you say, every few weeks or so, with the result of creating an acrimonious environment on DT-related message boards, which have been unanimous in the praise of ADTOE.  MP's comments this past year has been the sign of immaturity and resentment; not a very good combination.  if you can't see that the most recent comments are digs at DT, then i have nothing left of tact to say. the suggestion/wonderment aloud, of being desperate to re-create the past, is a painfully obvious attempt at halting the good vibes surrounding the lead-up to the release of ADTOE. we can talk about this in circles for years to come.  what's clear is that MP's bitter and resentful. and it's sad watching him unravel like this. but it's very entertaining. 

[ariich]

So basically, people who spend a lot of time speculating negative possibilities are now pissed that MP is doing the same thing?

[Peter Griffin]

So basically, people who spend a lot of time speculating negative possibilities are now pissed that MP is doing the same thing?

not sure what you mean by this.  nobody (aside from MP) is really saying that there's anything wrong w/ DT wanting to refer back to I&W.  i can't see a negative connotation with wanting to re-create the spirit of their most classic album.  it's that MP is trying to make a "negative" out of a "positive."  it is extremely irritating, and MP only seems to get a free pass because he's a past member.  but at some point, he needs to be called out for trolling his own forum and former band.

[ZBomber]

Yeah like I said, that was a suggestion with negative tones. Though I still don't entirely know what he meant by it, which is often MP's problem, he's rarely clear with what he says. But either way, it was still that, a suggestion. Should we therefore assume that every piece of negative speculation here has also been an attack/insult?

And some seem to be of the impression that MP is attacking them for re-using song structures, even though he said it was pretty cool if they were intentional nuggets.

Well, let's put it this way. If someone that wasn't Mike Portnoy came here and said that the band were desperately trying to re-write their past, you would probably laugh in their face. But since this is Mike Portnoy, you're just giving him the benefit of the doubt.

And I fucking hate "nuggets". Every time I hear someone talk about nuggets I wanna fucking punch every member of the 93 Colts in the DICK

[dongringo]

And I fucking hate "nuggets". Every time I hear someone talk about nuggets I wanna fucking punch every member of the 93 Colts in the DICK

How do you feel about nuggets? 

[tri.ad]

And I fucking hate "nuggets".

This. Not every reference to anything has to be called "nugget". Especially when it isn't one.

[ariich]

Yeah like I said, that was a suggestion with negative tones. Though I still don't entirely know what he meant by it, which is often MP's problem, he's rarely clear with what he says. But either way, it was still that, a suggestion. Should we therefore assume that every piece of negative speculation here has also been an attack/insult?

And some seem to be of the impression that MP is attacking them for re-using song structures, even though he said it was pretty cool if they were intentional nuggets.

Well, let's put it this way. If someone that wasn't Mike Portnoy came here and said that the band were desperately trying to re-write their past, you would probably laugh in their face. But since this is Mike Portnoy, you're just giving him the benefit of the doubt.

If someone suggested it then, like with MP, I would say it's silly speculation and leave it at that. Nobody else would be subject to the amount of outrage and upset that MP has been, once again.

So basically, people who spend a lot of time speculating negative possibilities are now pissed that MP is doing the same thing?

not sure what you mean by this.  nobody (aside from MP) is really saying that there's anything wrong w/ DT wanting to refer back to I&W.  i can't see a negative connotation with wanting to re-create the spirit of their most classic album.  it's that MP is trying to make a "negative" out of a "positive."  it is extremely irritating, and MP only seems to get a free pass because he's a past member.  but at some point, he needs to be called out for trolling his own forum and former band.

MP didn't say it was bad either. He did suggest that the band might have had less-than-noble intentions in doing so, but he didn't say there was anything bad about it, and also basically said that if the intentions were noble then he thought it was a pretty cool idea.

One thing I do agree with in this thread, though. MP should just never say anything ever again.

[InertSolo]

I don't see what this business of had it been released at a later date it wouldn't have been a problem. The album was streaming from a road runner website, it's on Spotify and I'm sure the pre-orders got their mp3 downloads already. People were still going to misinterpret the analysis and over exaggerate what's going on here because they have the reading comprehension of a moose. Oh, and if you're a musician structure most definitely matters so you can bet that the fanbase that are musicians would have figured this out anyway so it's not some radical new way of thinking that will blow people away. 

[ZBomber]

Nobody else would be subject to the amount of outrage and upset that MP has been, once again.

Because it's obvious how resentful Mike is to DT going on without him. I don't see how it could only be innocent speculation and nothing more than that.

I know that you want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but there was absolutely no reason to throw that "desperately rewriting the past" comment in, which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

I'm staying out of the thread now though, nothing good ever comes out of these topics. 

[ariich]

@InertSolo: Yeah I have to say, having heard the RR stream, I can see some of the structural similarities. But for the most part, musically the album is much more like DT's more recent output than the old stuff.

[ariich]

Nobody else would be subject to the amount of outrage and upset that MP has been, once again.

Because it's obvious how resentful Mike is to DT going on without him. I don't see how it could only be innocent speculation and nothing more than that.

I know that you want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but there was absolutely no reason to throw that "desperately rewriting the past" comment in, which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

I'm staying out of the thread now though, nothing good ever comes out of these topics. 

Well I don't even know what he meant by that, so can't fully comment. But it definitely comes off as a pretty negative suggestion.

[Peter Griffin]

agreed 100% on that ("MP should just never say anything ever again."). MP should never be allowed near a computer, again, lest he enjoys being the unsympathetic villain. he just seems incapable of being congratulatory.  if he's "speaking from the heart," then he's got a pretty black heart.  i don't know on which planet negativity wins one respect, but it sure as heck isn't this one.

[InertSolo]

@InertSolo: Yeah I have to say, having heard the RR stream, I can see some of the structural similarities. But for the most part, musically the album is much more like DT's more recent output than the old stuff.

I agree completely, it was just one of those oh that's pretty neat moments.

[SystematicThought]

My problem with Thiago, if he reads this, is that as soon as MP posted and agreed with your note, your tone completely changed from "Check out what I noticed" to "Thanks MP, I knew you'd agree with me. I hope the band comes out and clarifies because that's pretty disappointing if they did!"

Of course MP is gonna agree with you. Do you really think he's on good terms with the band? Your tone went from innocent to condescending and somewhat rude, especially with the note about DT fans not understanding music very well. That was the whole issue I had with it.

[Bertielee]

I'm not playing anything, and I do rather resent this "rose coloured glasses" bullshit. Rather than insulting me, how about actually giving me the explanation that I've been asking for?

As for apparently being an MP-defender, I'm not. But I do always strive for fairness and often find myself defending anyone that is being attacked. It just so happens that on DTF MP gets attacked more than anyone else.

There, you got it!    

B.Lee

[duncan3dc]

I don't see what this business of had it been released at a later date it wouldn't have been a problem. The album was streaming from a road runner website, it's on Spotify and I'm sure the pre-orders got their mp3 downloads already

I'm pretty sure it was posted like a week ago though

[Bertielee]

My problem with Thiago, if he reads this, is that as soon as MP posted and agreed with your note, your tone completely changed from "Check out what I noticed" to "Thanks MP, I knew you'd agree with me. I hope the band comes out and clarifies because that's pretty disappointing if they did!"

Of course MP is gonna agree with you. Do you really think he's on good terms with the band? Your tone went from innocent to condescending and somewhat rude, especially with the note about DT fans not understanding music very well. That was the whole issue I had with it.

Yes, it's just like MP has done over the past year.
And Thiago, it's not because people are not of the same opinion as  yours that they are wrong. You turned from someone really intelligent to a music snob and that what's I dislike the most.

B.Lee

[TheKillingHand]

My problem with Thiago, if he reads this, is that as soon as MP posted and agreed with your note, your tone completely changed from "Check out what I noticed" to "Thanks MP, I knew you'd agree with me. I hope the band comes out and clarifies because that's pretty disappointing if they did!"

Of course MP is gonna agree with you. Do you really think he's on good terms with the band? Your tone went from innocent to condescending and somewhat rude, especially with the note about DT fans not understanding music very well. That was the whole issue I had with it.

Yes, it's just like MP has done over the past year.
And Thiago, it's not because people are not of the same opinion as  yours that they are wrong. You turned from someone really intelligent to a music snob and that what's I dislike the most.

B.Lee

Yeah that second blog with the title "Dream Theater fans aren't that knowledgeable about music after all!(?)" really took the biscuit. 

[Lowdz]

Maybe for the sake of fairness other tracks from DT's past should be put through the same rigorous examination of their form, otherwise this is just bashing the new album. Let's see if the likes of Trial Of Tears stands up to scrutiny, or TCOT, or FF.

[snapple]

I didn't know I had to be one of them smarty pants music nerds to enjoy Dream Theater.

I'll just say it, Mike is fucking clueless when it comes to this kind of stuff. Like it has been said "if you don't have something nice to say, keep your fucking mouth shut". I don't think Mike is an idiot at all, in fact I think he is very smart. I'm just sick of reading about this kind of shit all the time. I know I opened the thread. But seriously, we should just quit giving him the attention he wants so bad. Let it go guys, let it go. He can have a hissy fit about the album all on his own.

[orcus116]

I think people are just waiting for him to make his own opinions for once instead of waiting around for someone to make one and him to agree on so he's not directly responsible for what comes out of it. I think all of his responses regarding the new DT music have spawned from that scenario.

[deadtotheworld]

This is why i sometimes despise internet and message boards and constantly go through phases with contributing and enjoying discussion boards on subjects like reviewing albums, films, video games etc and hate things like twitter and sms text messages as people start getting really bitchy and take things out of context, inability to sense 'tone of voice' in text, taking sides when there is a separation of musicians etc

Im really interested in peoples constructive or personal views with regards liking an album or whatever, but more often than not its like 'we welcome all opinions as long as its the same as mine' attitude where if you like something you are right and if you dont like something you are wrong... But this MP nonesense is tiresome, taking sides, bitching about 1 line of a post, saying MP should say nice things only about the new album when i guess for him its like reviewing his ex wifes new lover! All this crying about something he said on his own forum - i mean woe betide he has his own opinion. Jeez give it a rest already.

[Peter Griffin]

This is why i sometimes despise internet and message boards and constantly go through phases with contributing and enjoying discussion boards on subjects like reviewing albums, films, video games etc and hate things like twitter and sms text messages as people start getting really bitchy and take things out of context, inability to sense 'tone of voice' in text, taking sides when there is a separation of musicians etc

Im really interested in peoples constructive or personal views with regards liking an album or whatever, but more often than not its like 'we welcome all opinions as long as its the same as mine' attitude where if you like something you are right and if you dont like something you are wrong... But this MP nonesense is tiresome, taking sides, bitching about 1 line of a post, saying MP should say nice things only about the new album when i guess for him its like reviewing his ex wifes new lover! All this crying about something he said on his own forum - i mean woe betide he has his own opinion. Jeez give it a rest already.

nothing has been taken out of context, sir. nobody is saying MP should only be saying nice things; it has been mentioned numerous times that he shouldn't be saying things, at all.

[Lowdz]

Mike's probably just pissed he didn't think of it himself.

I said in another thread that Mike should take the JP approach: when JP is asked about Adrenaline Mob do you think he'll say "Well if it was their intention to sound like a 2nd rate Godsmack/Disturbed clone then that's pretty desperate"? No, he'll say he hasn't heard it, even though he probably will have. It's called class.

[Elsydeon]

Blabbermouth ruins lives

[Mebert78]

In another thread about MP a few weeks ago, I said I planned to support him in his new projects.  I had attended the first Adrenaline Mob show in May and also an MP meet-n-greet on Long Island earlier this summer.  But not anymore.  Him answering DT-related questions in an interview is one thing.  Those situations are unavoidable, and sure he didn't always say the most politically correct thing.  But choosing to go on a public forum and spoil enthusiasm about DT's album a matter of days before the release with words like "desperately" and "secretly" is so unclassy and totally crosses the line.  I'm a DT collector and would've bought anything he released for the rest of his life.  But I refuse to support or buy any of his post-DT projects now.  A high majority of people purchasing his future projects and going to his future events will be DT fans, and he's losing us little by little.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Blabbermouth ruins lives

nah, Blabbermouth is just a tool.

[deadtotheworld]

Peter Griffin, sir - MP could fart and people would say it was a personal attack on DT. If he says something nice it would be twisted against him, if he said nothing, he would get crucified and say its sour grapes, he should have said something, if he says something you dont like or agree with - suddenly people say he shouldnt have his own opinion and shouldnt have said anything.
If JP answered a question with 'no comment' - he's classy.
If MP answered a question with 'no comment' - he's a classless asshole
Different rules for different people methinks!

People have typed pages and pages of views and opinions i agree with and disagree with and thats cool, you yourself have probably given your view on the album, i know i have, so who are you to say that we can say anything we want but MP should not say anything? Because if you ignore all the bullshit like being a founder member and a millionaire rockstar, at the end of the day he is still also just a fan of music.

[johncal]

Yeah like I said, that was a suggestion with negative tones. Though I still don't entirely know what he meant by it, which is often MP's problem, he's rarely clear with what he says. But either way, it was still that, a suggestion. Should we therefore assume that every piece of negative speculation here has also been an attack/insult?

And some seem to be of the impression that MP is attacking them for re-using song structures, even though he said it was pretty cool if they were intentional nuggets.

If you can't see that he was being PORKNOY with that comment, then not only are those rose colored glasses, but they were painted black over the tops of the lenses as well, 'cause you sure ain't seeing what he said.

Example: If you Ariich know for sure that Portnoy meant nothing by it then it's OK it's cool, but if you can't see the truth then your an IDIOT. Does that comment upset you? And if so, then why?