Am i the only one not liking SDOIT Cd 2?

[bosk1]

^Yup.  Best song in DT's catalog.  And given DT's catalog, that's saying a lot.

[BlobVanDam]

SDOIT was one of two songs that got me into Dream Theater (the other being TGP), and I still consider it their best song. It has everything; it's got heavy sections, beautiful ballad sections, and it is the most melodic thing they've ever written. Disc 1 of SDOIT is amazing, but disc 2 is what makes SDOIT their best album imo.

Some of DT's other long songs tire on me, but I can always listen to SDOIT beginning to end effortlessly. It's a perfect musical journey that covers so much ground.

Whether you consider it a song, or a suite, or a mini concept album, whatever. To me it's just 42 minutes of Dream Theater at their peak.

[reo73]

I'm not a huge fan of 6DOIT as a whole song, in fact I don't even view it as a whole song.  But I do like some of it quite a bit.  I really don't care much for Overture, TTTSTA, or WIMH.  I do like but don't get too excited for Goodnight Kiss and Solitary Shell, but I really like About to Crash, ATC Reprise, and Losing Time.  So all in all I am a selective listener to it.

Disc 1 though is some of the best music DT has ever written in a collective 5 song series.

[theseoafs]

I wonder if some of you guys would have a different opinion of Disk 2 if they would have kept it as one long track?

No, that' preposterous.  It doesn't matter if they make it one track, it is still not good in my opinion.  I have only ever listened to it as a whole, and to be honest it's hurt by being a whole.  It's basically six tracks tied together by topic and no real important order, but then they paste on an overture and finale and all of a sudden it's one song?  If we weren't told it was one song would any of us actually think it was?  Regardless, the tracks are largely uninteresting, with the overture being the best thing on the disc even though it feels out of place.

You're ignoring the many, many, many in-song thematic references: The Losing Time melody being played as the guitar solo at the end of About to Crash, and the main theme (the one that sounds like Kansas' "The Wall") being played in Goodnight Kiss's bridge, just to name a couple.

You're also ignoring the fact that Rudess wrote the Overture before the band composed the rest of the song. The Overture and Finale are by no means tacked on to what were beforehand six standalone songs, as you imply.

[orcus116]

I do not like the second disc.  It's a sloppy collection of mediocre sections.

On the other hand, the first disc is fantastic.

This exactly. It's commendable that they had that much music left in them after making the first disc but comparing the discs side by side the quality of songwriting seems wildly shifted. I just can't get excited about any parts of the second disc.

[The Presence of Frenemies]

I think the music is great, but it's just such a sprawling piece and lacks the connection to really interest me all the way through. I just can't maintain interest past Goodnight Kiss; the rest is great, but nothing really grabs me.

The interesting thing about SDOIT, to me, is that it doesn't have a whole lot of "epic" moments. And that's a huge surprise, given that it's easily the longest song written by a band known for having bombastic sections in a large number of their songs. But where's the huge peaks in SDOIT? Both ATCs are quite understated, TTTSTA is aggressive but not really climactic in any sense, and WIMH, while great, is so short that it doesn't really sink in much. Okay, Goodnight Kiss has the incredible 3-minute guitar lead/solo, but it's bookended by extremely placid sections (in GK and SS). And the ending of the piece is certainly "epic," but as someone said before, it sounds kind of tacked on and manufactured.

Now, the thing is, I feel like that's why a lot of people love the song here--they hear DT go "over the top" so much in other places and love the restraint throughout. And hey, that's great--it's a great piece! But it's certainly just as easy to see how it doesn't stack up to the other mega-epics as well--it lacks the same sense of continuity, for one, and it also doesn't have anything nearly as grabbing as "I'M SICK OF ALL YOU HYPOCRITES...", Razor's Edge, or a bunch of moments in ITPOE. And given that SDOIT's structure is already bloated even beyond the rather lenient confines of those other three epics, it invariably runs out of steam if I'm not in a patient mood, because at some point I want to hear the music build to something, and SDOIT doesn't really build to anything. Or, I should say, it doesn't seamlessly build to anything, due to its length and discontinuity.

Do I think it's a great piece of music? Yes, absolutely. But do I find much of DT's catalog to be more enjoyable to me on most days? I can't deny it.

[BlobVanDam]

I wonder if some of you guys would have a different opinion of Disk 2 if they would have kept it as one long track?

No, that' preposterous.  It doesn't matter if they make it one track, it is still not good in my opinion.  I have only ever listened to it as a whole, and to be honest it's hurt by being a whole.  It's basically six tracks tied together by topic and no real important order, but then they paste on an overture and finale and all of a sudden it's one song?  If we weren't told it was one song would any of us actually think it was?  Regardless, the tracks are largely uninteresting, with the overture being the best thing on the disc even though it feels out of place.

You're ignoring the many, many, many in-song thematic references: The Losing Time melody being played as the guitar solo at the end of About to Crash, and the main theme (the one that sounds like Kansas' "The Wall") being played in Goodnight Kiss's bridge, just to name a couple.

You're also ignoring the fact that Rudess wrote the Overture before the band composed the rest of the song. The Overture and Finale are by no means tacked on to what were beforehand six standalone songs, as you imply.

I bet if people got less tied up in the semantics of whether or not it's a "song" and just listened to it for what it is, they'd enjoy it a lot more. Maybe if DT just called it a "mini-concept album" or something. Prog fans would go for that. It saddens me that SDOIT is so criminally underrated.

[orcus116]

I don't think that has anything to do with it. The music is the music. Classifications are completely separate. If someone was to say "I hate it as a song but adore it as a suite" then at that point are they really more concerned about the music? I classify it the way I personally classify it purely based on flow, which isn't going to change my thoughts the pieces no matter how they are assembled.

[theseoafs]

Maybe if DT just called it a "mini-concept album" or something. Prog fans would go for that.

Metropolis Part 2.5: Tiny Scenes from Tinier Memories

[The Presence of Frenemies]

I wonder if some of you guys would have a different opinion of Disk 2 if they would have kept it as one long track?

No, that' preposterous.  It doesn't matter if they make it one track, it is still not good in my opinion.  I have only ever listened to it as a whole, and to be honest it's hurt by being a whole.  It's basically six tracks tied together by topic and no real important order, but then they paste on an overture and finale and all of a sudden it's one song?  If we weren't told it was one song would any of us actually think it was?  Regardless, the tracks are largely uninteresting, with the overture being the best thing on the disc even though it feels out of place.

You're ignoring the many, many, many in-song thematic references: The Losing Time melody being played as the guitar solo at the end of About to Crash, and the main theme (the one that sounds like Kansas' "The Wall") being played in Goodnight Kiss's bridge, just to name a couple.

You're also ignoring the fact that Rudess wrote the Overture before the band composed the rest of the song. The Overture and Finale are by no means tacked on to what were beforehand six standalone songs, as you imply.

I bet if people got less tied up in the semantics of whether or not it's a "song" and just listened to it for what it is, they'd enjoy it a lot more. Maybe if DT just called it a "mini-concept album" or something. Prog fans would go for that. It saddens me that SDOIT is so criminally underrated.

I disagree here. I feel like the only way people would seriously re-appraise things is if the band were to say that there is no connection between the songs, because whether it's a song, suite, or concept album, the linkage between the songs is intended to be tight.

Of course, if the band were to sever those links, then the first and last song would seem very strange standing alone, and having two ATCs would seem like the laziest move in the history of music, so re-appraisals in that context likely would not be kind.

In fact, I would say that those who consider it a "song" are most likely to really try to get into it. I remember when I first heard DT, and I immediately checked out as much of the super-long stuff as I could, just trying to wrap my brain around the structures, let alone the time sigs and notes. If you're into prog, it's almost fashionable to get into such daunting stuff--one almost wants to like it (not necessarily consciously) just to be able to say "Hey, I'm big into this ridiculous piece of music." So I wouldn't think that the classification of SDOIT as a song would really be deterring anybody from appreciating it, for better or worse.

[theseoafs]

Now, the thing is, I feel like that's why a lot of people love the song here--they hear DT go "over the top" so much in other places and love the restraint throughout. And hey, that's great--it's a great piece! But it's certainly just as easy to see how it doesn't stack up to the other mega-epics as well--it lacks the same sense of continuity, for one, and it also doesn't have anything nearly as grabbing as "I'M SICK OF ALL YOU HYPOCRITES...", Razor's Edge, or a bunch of moments in ITPOE. And given that SDOIT's structure is already bloated even beyond the rather lenient confines of those other three epics, it invariably runs out of steam if I'm not in a patient mood, because at some point I want to hear the music build to something, and SDOIT doesn't really build to anything. Or, I should say, it doesn't seamlessly build to anything, due to its length and discontinuity.

Though I disagree, this is a very fair analysis. Many, like myself, thought it was nifty that DT showed a little bit of restraint (or, rather, comparative restraint) in SDOIT. It's definitely more laid-back, and a bit more reminiscent of Yes's epics than DT's other more bombastic ones. You definitely have to be in a different mindset to appreciate SDOIT for what it is, though in my opinion that doesn't make it worse.

(Then again, I do rank SDOIT 3rd behind Octavarium and ACoS, so...)

[BlobVanDam]

I don't think that has anything to do with it. The music is the music. Classifications are completely separate. If someone was to say "I hate it as a song but adore it as a suite" then at that point are they really more concerned about the music? I classify it the way I personally classify it purely based on flow, which isn't going to change my thoughts the pieces no matter how they are assembled.

Ok, that's fair. That was a careless generalization. Although I still can't help but be curious to see how it would have been received had they called it a concept disc. But that's just speculation.

I have no problem calling it a song, because DT have said so, and because to this day I have never listened to it as anything but a single unit, but it doesn't have the flow of a song, even for DT, so I can appreciate that.

I think of it more of a mini concept album/suite just as I consider SFAM a concept album. They both have parts that connect, and parts that don't. SDOIT relies more on the Overture and Finale to tie it together than SFAM, which has more narrative and recurring musical themes throughout. I think of it more like the Overture is musically introducing a group of related songs (as they're all about a common topic even though there's no connected story or narrative), then you have a collection of songs, then the Finale to wrap it all up both musically and lyrically in a typically epic fashion.

And I think that's what I love about it, is that it follows an entirely different structure to the typical long "epics" that people feel are overused. It's not a long, drawn out piece of music for the sake of creating a super epic. In fact, it's quite the opposite. It's more of a group of well written, melodic, concise songs. While it's technically their longest song by quite a margin, it's actually very tight and restrained. There aren't big self-indulgent instrumental sections in the middle, and it has amazing variety rather than drawing out a few sections.

But even as individual 5 minute songs, I love them all the same, because as individual "songs", they all show DT's ability to write a good short song, with catchy melodies and amazing choruses. As I've always been a big fan of DT's shorter songs, I feel these are among DT's best even when judged individually. They don't feel like DT is forcing themselves to restraint like some of their more recent short songs, because they don't generally follow typical structures.

Anyway, I don't know what the point of that ramble was. It certainly wasn't to change anyone's mind. Whether it's considered a song, a suite, a concept album, or just a disc of random unrelated songs, I think it's equally fantastic. It's an "epic" that is built firmly upon DT's melodic restrained side. If people don't consider it has enough flow to be one song, I accept that. If people don't even think it has enough flow to be a suite or concept, that's fair enough too, although I personally disagree. But even if you take all of that away from it, imo you're still left with a great accomplishment of DT's songwriting abilities.

[PS Head]

Considering that SDOIT is one of the most incredible pieces of music I've ever heard, I'd say you're either insane or you have defective hearing.

+2

I watched/listened to the whole of 6DoIT on the Score dvd lastnight and like so often before,left me with goosebumps.However many times ive played that track,i am always left in awe of its quallity from start to finish.My favourite DT song by far.

[tri.ad]

I can't really say that I like it a lot. In fact, it's probably among my 20 least favourite DT songs. I don't really like the flow of the song, and I really dislike some sections/parts of the song (last minute of About To Crash, TTTSTA, most of WIMH). However, it has some redeeming qualities, like the solo in Goodnight Kiss, Solitary Shell and About To Crash/Reprise. I could perfectly do without the rest of the song, to be quite honest.

Needless to say that I find the first disc better in any way.

[ConstantMotion]

When I first got Six Degrees, I preferred the shorter songs on cd 1.

Now, years later and many listens in, I prefer the second cd to the first.

Apples to oranges, I say! I like it all. 

[tgstk2]

CD1>cd2 in my opionion.
i never listen to CD2 acutally.
i only like WIMH and SS and thats about it for disc 2.
yes some tunes are "fun"....but taht's about it. i skip most of the tracks on disc 2.
it's not comparable to ACOS or something whichi is still there best EPIC

[fibreoptix]

You know, I used to feel the same was as the OP. I lked Goodnight Kiss and Solitary Shell, but most of the second disc was totally worthless to me, especially compared to all the glory that took place on disc 1.

Years later and disc 2 is one of my favourite pieces of music ever. I couldn't tell you exactly when or why it grew on me, but I love almost everything about it and it's on the same level as it's companion disc. The only parts I don't care for are the Overture and that jarring transition at the end of TTTSTA.

[DetonationSequence]

THE greatest piece of music in the history of creation. As unnecessarily hyperbolic as that might sound, I haven't heard anything, in hundreds of albums spanning genres from hardcore punk to dark ambient, that has affected me anywhere near as much. It's been my favourite song since I was a child.

In fact, I rarely listen to it since when I do it draws a rather... intense reaction from me; it's difficult to recover from the experience of listening to SDOIT.

But yeah, if you don't like this song, there's nothing I can do for you. You're living a deprived life and have been cheated out of the most exhilarating experience in music by your own fickle music taste.

[Jinova]

When I first got Six Degrees, I preferred the shorter songs on cd 1.

Now, years later and many listens in, I prefer the second cd to the first.

Apples to oranges, I say! I like it all. 

This is kinda how I feel.  Disc 2 took a really long time to grow on me and now I think its fantastic! 

[Millais]

But I really never ever have a desire to listen to the overture, it's just way too long and doesn't do much.

just doesn't do much for me by all being recorded on a keyboard.
Goodnight Kiss and Solitary Shell are incredible though.

[Jirpo]

I hope so! Its amazing.

[fleaman]

Wow!Seems that i really am the only one apart from 6-7 people!I just find the fisrt songs SO good that the second disc sounds SO mediocre at best...I find the second disc copletely pointless after creating such a masterpiece disc 1!It really distracted my attention after a great musical journey i always have after i listen to the first five songs!

[RandalGraves]

I agree that there are segments that work better than others, but unfortunately for me, the overture is just cheesy as all hell (never was a fan of keys trying to replicate only what a real orchestra can accomplish), and the track ends with a whimper rather than a bang.  It doesn't quite work as a whole (like ACOS, 8vm, etc).  Far from their worst though.

[Elite]

I do not like the second disc.  It's a sloppy collection of mediocre sections.

On the other hand, the first disc is fantastic.

This.
OP is definitely not the only one.

[CrimsonSunrise]

It's just awesome..... especially the Score version.

[bosk1]

The interesting thing about SDOIT, to me, is that it doesn't have a whole lot of "epic" moments. And that's a huge surprise, given that it's easily the longest song written by a band known for having bombastic sections in a large number of their songs.

Well, yes and no.  As already pointed out, it doesn't follow the typical song structure of their other major epics.  Like Transatlantic's The Whirlwind, the movements are contructed more like standalone pieces where you could take a lot of them out of the whole piece and play them by themselves.  And yet, they still have their own place as part of the whole.  There still are subtle thematic references that tie the whole thing together.  But given the song's subject matter, the somewhat chaotic nature of the disparate sounding movements all being put together into one song fits the theme of the song exactly.  It is supposed to evoke a sense of choas and not working together (while somehow still working together).  And then you have the big payoff at the end where everything is tied up and the big resolution comes in, and the song takes such a dramatic twist.  Just...perfection.  Honestly, the end of SDOIT is one of the biggest musical and lyrical payoffs I've ever heard.

[krands85]

I don't dislike the song by any means and I think it's a cool concept, but it's never really done that much for me for some reason.

I prefer disc 1, but overall the whole thing is in the lower half of my favourite DT albums.

[aXygnus]

I'm with the OP. The Test That Stumped Them All is the only tune I listen to. (From CD1, The Glass Prison is my fave, with Blind Faith second).

the test was probably the worst track in the entire album

I'm sad I couldn't find a image macro symbolizing me choking you. Because that'd be the sole thing I'd post here.

Oh well, but to each one their own, I guess. I like the suite a lot more than the first disc. Especially About to Crash, TTTSTA, Solitary Shell and Losing Time / Grand Finale.

[?]

Disc 1 is better

This. Disc 2 suffers from lack of flow.

[The Presence of Frenemies]

The interesting thing about SDOIT, to me, is that it doesn't have a whole lot of "epic" moments. And that's a huge surprise, given that it's easily the longest song written by a band known for having bombastic sections in a large number of their songs.

Well, yes and no.  As already pointed out, it doesn't follow the typical song structure of their other major epics.  Like Transatlantic's The Whirlwind, the movements are contructed more like standalone pieces where you could take a lot of them out of the whole piece and play them by themselves.  And yet, they still have their own place as part of the whole.  There still are subtle thematic references that tie the whole thing together.  But given the song's subject matter, the somewhat chaotic nature of the disparate sounding movements all being put together into one song fits the theme of the song exactly.  It is supposed to evoke a sense of choas and not working together (while somehow still working together).  And then you have the big payoff at the end where everything is tied up and the big resolution comes in, and the song takes such a dramatic twist.  Just...perfection.  Honestly, the end of SDOIT is one of the biggest musical and lyrical payoffs I've ever heard.

Guess this is just one of these scenarios where a specific section (the ending) really elicits a huge variety of opinions. To each his own--while you continue to adore this, I'll continue to adore the TMOLS ending (IIRC, that's one of the few DT tracks that you find "meh"). Whatever works!

[The Silent Cody]

Disc 1 is better

This. Disc 2 suffers from lack of flow.

I disagree, disc 1 have two weirdest DT songs -> Misunderstood and Disappear, when disc 2 is just almost perfect for me. Great melodies, and that Overture...pure genius, I kind of understand why You said about lack of flow, but I just love 2 disc.

[lordxizor]

I prefer disc 1 as well, but I like disc 2.

[alirocker08]

First listened to it when I was hiding up in the attic, I looked at the time, thought 'Damn that's long' and before I knew it I was finished, my mum had calmed down and I had just been on the most magical musical journey ever. That was a good day.

[BRGM]

I really never ever have a desire to listen to the overture, it's just way too long and doesn't do much.

Agreed, though the score version is quite good.

[Dublagent66]

The entire album is classic, so if you don't like the title track, then you're missing out bigtime.