How do you feel about the band's "spiritual" side?

[SystematicThought]

I thought JP had 3 brothers and sisters. But yes, now in that context that makes sense

Now I feel dumb  

[Adami]

We're on page 3, right now. So I am going to go to bed, and I bet that next time I check this tomorrow, we will be around page 8 or 9.

[Ħ]

We're on page 3, right now. So I am going to go to bed, and I bet that next time I check this tomorrow, we will be around page 8 or 9.

So true.

[Zydar]

Hi and welcome Rena

[SystematicThought]

Hi and welcome Rena

Definately. Excuse my awkward comment and move on. Welcome

[ReaPsTA]

This is my first time posting here and I just want to say I am thoroughly enjoying reading the forum. I won't normally speak for John or anyone, but he is a practicing Catholic and is very spiritually driven in the way he lives his life. He was brought up with very loving parents who were clearly devoted to the church, eucharist ministers in fact.  His first gig was in church and all 3 of our children all attended catholic elementary schools. We try to go to church on Sunday even while on tour. (The service at the Vatican in July was awesome and in Italian) I do know that he is truly inspired by Jesus and strives to be a good person. Many of his songs are inspired by his views and his love of the story telling aspect of historical events and politics, as well as his own beliefs and experiences, and if they happen to include religious undertones then yes, some will reference his Christian beliefs because that is who he is. I don't believe that it is his intention to preach to anyone and they don't consider themselves a religiously affiliated band of any kind.

Thank you very much for the insight.

[wasteland]

Hi and welcome Rena

Yeah, welcome! 

[Perpetual Change]

While I'm not sure whether Rainee is really Rena, nothing said in that post goes against what I'd already heard somewhere about John being a practicing Catholic. At any rate, I have no doubt that boskers or an admin will confirm this for us on the morrow, and if it turns out to be true I'm looking forward to hopefully more insights!

[robwebster]

This is my first time posting here and I just want to say I am thoroughly enjoying reading the forum. I won't normally speak for John or anyone, but he is a practicing Catholic and is very spiritually driven in the way he lives his life. He was brought up with very loving parents who were clearly devoted to the church, eucharist ministers in fact.  His first gig was in church and all 3 of our children all attended catholic elementary schools. We try to go to church on Sunday even while on tour. (The service at the Vatican in July was awesome and in Italian) I do know that he is truly inspired by Jesus and strives to be a good person. Many of his songs are inspired by his views and his love of the story telling aspect of historical events and politics, as well as his own beliefs and experiences, and if they happen to include religious undertones then yes, some will reference his Christian beliefs because that is who he is. I don't believe that it is his intention to preach to anyone and they don't consider themselves a religiously affiliated band of any kind.

Not to add to the deluge of "welcome, Rena"s or anything... but howdy, Rena! Genuinely very cool to hear from you - it's totally an honour to have a Petrucci in our "front room" as it were. A lot of cool information here, too, cheers for setting the record straight. Hope it wasn't too weird having a host of strangers speculating about your family's religious beliefs. :p

[m0hawk]

Haha, this is awesome. Make yourself at home, Rena! Now I will shut up and not question your family's beliefs.

[hefdaddy42]

From the mods: just in case anyone is wondering, doubtful, or curious...yes, she is legit.

Thanks for posting, Rena!

[cookienut]

Oh darn...I wish my wife visited forums and defended my religious beliefs

But seriously, awesome to have that insight about JP and his family....also welcome!

[LCArenas]

Does that mean we have another Forum VIP?

[BlobVanDam]

I hope so. I love seeing that purdy shade of purple.

[snapple]

Rena, what an awesome username. Trying to pass off as normal and such!

Thanks for the information. It goes very much appreciated!

[KevShmev]

Welcome to the forum, Mrs. JP!

As for the spiritual stuff, I have never thought any of their lyrics sounded preachy at all.  Sure, some of them have touched on the spiritual side of things, but never to where I thought it was even close to being too much.  

Also, I remember when Train of Thought came out.  It was less than a year after Neal Morse had left Spock's Beard, and when the song titles for ToT were released (This Dying Soul, Endless Sacrifice, In the Name of God, Honor Thy Father, etc.), I remember some online fans being worried that Neal had influenced Portnoy too much with the christian lyrics and that DT was gonna become somewhat of a religious band, too.

[hefdaddy42]

Also, I remember when Train of Thought came out.  It was less than a year after Neal Morse had left Spock's Beard, and when the song titles for ToT were released (This Dying Soul, Endless Sacrifice, In the Name of God, Honor Thy Father, etc.), I remember some online fans being worried that Neal had influenced Portnoy too much with the christian lyrics and that DT was gonna become somewhat of a religious band, too.

I remember that as well. 

[The Letter M]

Also, I remember when Train of Thought came out.  It was less than a year after Neal Morse had left Spock's Beard, and when the song titles for ToT were released (This Dying Soul, Endless Sacrifice, In the Name of God, Honor Thy Father, etc.), I remember some online fans being worried that Neal had influenced Portnoy too much with the christian lyrics and that DT was gonna become somewhat of a religious band, too.

I remember that as well. 

I read about that, having become a fan in 2004. When the tracklisting for SC came out, I had similar thoughts with titles like "Forsaken", "The Ministry Of Lost Souls", and "Repentance".

As for the topic at hand, I think the lyrics can often be spiritual, but they are written with some ambiguity that allows the individual listener to take from the words what they want. Lyrics are often up for interpretation the more vague/ambiguous they get, so it's not unlikely that many fans who are Christian, who are more spiritual than others, will see certain lyrics in a different light rather than straight-up literal or perhaps even metaphorical.

I enjoy that there is a LOT of metaphor in DT's lyrics (mostly JP's and JM's lyrics), and aren't as literal or obvious or even encyclopedic. It makes their music that much more enjoyable, regardless of beliefs.

-Marc.

[Nick]

Also, I remember when Train of Thought came out.  It was less than a year after Neal Morse had left Spock's Beard, and when the song titles for ToT were released (This Dying Soul, Endless Sacrifice, In the Name of God, Honor Thy Father, etc.), I remember some online fans being worried that Neal had influenced Portnoy too much with the christian lyrics and that DT was gonna become somewhat of a religious band, too.

I remember that as well. 

Oh wow, I wasn't there for that, but given the love of speculation I can totally imagine that.

[Metropolis Pt. II]

I think it's very much up to the reader to project that interpretation upon it. I'm not religious, myself, so I tend to see The Spirit Carries On as a plot-point, rather than a message, but art's about seeing yourself reflected into it, and if that's what important to you then you're absolutely right to interpret it in that way.

They're certainly not a secular band - there's a lot of triumph and victories of spirit, but I think the imagery is non-specific. I can totally see how Surrounded, for instance, could be interpreted in a Christian way by a Christian listener, but to me it's more a triumph of humanity. If God's where you put faith, it's a song about God. If you put faith in humanity, it's a song about humanity. It's ambiguous enough that you can project whatever form you want onto it. Which I quite like. I've never thought about it, but I like it. Likewise, ItPoE isn't pro-Christian to a non-Christian listener - it's a song about vanquishing your demons, with a couple of pseudobiblical winks chucked in for flavour. That's not religious, to me, that's literary. Quotes or not, I've never thought of it as a religious song - not even questioned it - and I suppose that's a bit weird, isn't it? But again, if Christianity is how you conquer your demons, then hey! It's about Christianity!

That's DT, though! DT all over. They tend to sketch in a form, but leave the details a little more hazy - which gives the listener free reign to take from it whatever they want. Surrounded (to come back to it, as it's a good example) can mean something completely different from person to person, conjuring up different images based on the listeners' different dispositions. Actually, I really like that. Good thinking point!

This is such a stellar post. Thanks for your thoughts, rob! They're always welcome 

[ronrule]

If anything, I've always thought "Take the Time" to be the band's preachiest (and a non-religious sermon at that). Though that's probably just because the chorus switches to second-person.

"no one can save you this time
Close your eyes
You can find all you need in your mind"

"There are no answers from voices above"

I was an evangelical Christian when I first got into this album, (have since converted to Catholicism), and these lines bothered me from a theological standpoint. But I just read on SongMeanings that this is about dealing with changes in the band. So, big lesson with just about any band: just because the lyrics have religious imagery, doesn't mean it's about religion. And I don't really care anymore and the song kicks ass of course.

[Orion1967]

I had just a couple of thoughts to express in the context of this thread:
1st @ Rob, your initial post was spot on and very well stated.  Pretty much exactly how I feel.

2nd It was fantastic to read Rena's post (hopefully the first of many with all due respect to the Petrucci's privacy).

3rd I think that the degreee of thoughtfulness and insight that posters in this thread have displayed has been amazing and I think it shows that DT's lyrics are in fact well though out and are really quite good.  I mean if so many different people with such different ideological beliefs can all get something uplifiting or interesting from the same set of lyrics then I think the guys have done a great job.  I personally am a christian, not pushy or preachy, and actually rarely go to church, preferring to have my own private relationship with God and I have always gotten a spiritual vibe from DT's music.  Both lyrically and with the choices of chord progressions and meters that accompany the song I read a lot into the melody.  Most of their songs have what to me are very flowing transitions that tell a story in and of themselves.   Sounds and tones spark and incite human emotion as do the meters of the songs and can take the listener on an emotional journey of sorts and when you accompany that with lyrics that are written like DT's to me, it makes for a satisfying acoustic experience.

5th In The Spirit Carries On, I personally feel it is not neccesarily about reincarnation in the literal sense (as someone mentioned earlier in the thread) rather I believe that it is reflective of the transition of the human spirit into the thoughts and memories of loved ones left behind.

Thumbs up to the O.P...  fantastic thread M8!

[Kotowboy]

James LaBries' Wikipedia entry has changed from " ...showing a more diest attitude " to " .. has mentioned in many interviews he is a practicing Christian ".

Thoughts ?

[ZirconBlue]

5th In The Spirit Carries On, I personally feel it is not neccesarily about reincarnation in the literal sense (as someone mentioned earlier in the thread) rather I believe that it is reflective of the transition of the human spirit into the thoughts and memories of loved ones left behind.

I find that an odd interpretation given that it's part of a concept album that does indeed involve literal reincarnation.

[BlobVanDam]

5th In The Spirit Carries On, I personally feel it is not neccesarily about reincarnation in the literal sense (as someone mentioned earlier in the thread) rather I believe that it is reflective of the transition of the human spirit into the thoughts and memories of loved ones left behind.

I find that an odd interpretation given that it's part of a concept album that does indeed involve literal reincarnation.

Given Petrucci's religious beliefs, I've always taken it as a song that was intended both ways. Obviously within the context of the album it's about reincarnation, but I think the lyrics were intentionally written to be ambiguous enough to be taken as a more general spiritual message that works differently as a standalone song.
Or maybe it wasn't intended, but I think it works both ways pretty well.

[GasparXR]

5th In The Spirit Carries On, I personally feel it is not neccesarily about reincarnation in the literal sense (as someone mentioned earlier in the thread) rather I believe that it is reflective of the transition of the human spirit into the thoughts and memories of loved ones left behind.

I find that an odd interpretation given that it's part of a concept album that does indeed involve literal reincarnation.

Given Petrucci's religious beliefs, I've always taken it as a song that was intended both ways. Obviously within the context of the album it's about reincarnation, but I think the lyrics were intentionally written to be ambiguous enough to be taken as a more general spiritual message that works differently as a standalone song.
Or maybe it wasn't intended, but I think it works both ways pretty well.

I think it may have been intended that way, except for the final verse whos lyrics are clearly tied to the album, as it mentions the bright light, Victoria, etc.

[Tis BOOLsheet]

As a non-believer, I am completely fine with the level of spirituality that is in DT's music. It isn't what I consider to be "too much" and thus off-putting. I never thought of them as a Christian band. The level of spirituality is totally fine.

There are some artists/bands whose level of spirituality prevent me from listening to much of their music. Neal Morse is a great musician, but I just can't do the Jesus-freak lyrics in a lot of his material. I can do some religious lyrics, but not to that extent. It's a shame because I like his work, but lyrically it's past my level of tolerance lol.

Anyway, DT is not like that. While there might be religious undertones as a previous poster said, they have never been preachy and that's important to me.

By the way, the reference to Count's instrumental section with respect to this issue is just completely out there, unless I've missed an interview or something.

[Tomislav95]

What about Don't look past me? It always sounded spiritual to me although I don't really understand lyrics

[Flacracker]

Lines in the sand:
Crown of thorns at my side
Holes in my hands
Drawing lines in the sand
Virgin weeping

[Adami]

We're on page 3, right now. So I am going to go to bed, and I bet that next time I check this tomorrow, we will be around page 8 or 9.

Well damn. 9 months later and we're still on page 3. Talk about a hard fail.

[comment]

......What do you feel about all of this? Do you like this facet of the band or do you find it cheesy?

I feel their music is influenced by Judeo-Christian spirituality at times and glorious most of the time.  In general, every song a fan sings can be tweaked lyrically to fit their spiritual mind and as a Christian listening to DT, it's not that difficult.  That's what I do anyway, though it becomes harder when the darker side of humanity is explored, but it's honest and sublime when they do.  (JP is a phenomenal writer.)

I like it and don't find it cheesy at all.  Their lyrics are fairly universal, relateable and deeply honest anyway.  I'd like to see them develop their beliefs into songs further.  Their purported faiths have a lot in common which would suggest they could find a lot of agreement in lyrical content and themes.  Very easily, they could continue to be who they are and develop their spiritual side in their music.  I say go for it, overt or covert!     

[TheGreatPretender]

I like it and don't find it cheesy at all.  Their lyrics are fairly universal, relateable and deeply honest anyway.

This.
I actually think it's a damn shame that the final verse from the original "Take Away My Pain" version was omitted from the final version. That verse was beautiful.

I also think that them making songs that have to do with spirituality are much more interesting and preferable to songs about... Say... Politics or science. I couldn't care less about politics. Although it suits bands like Megadeth a lot more than it suits a band like Dream Theater.

[Kotowboy]

Ironically - On The Backs Of Angels is a political song.

As a Christian myself, I still feel uncomfortable listening to ITPOE part 2 when James is singing Dark Master - Now My Soul Is Yours.

Even though I know it's only a metaphor for the internal struggle between god and bad.

It also doesn't help that I'm not the greatest fan of that track.

[Super Dude]

You hear spirituality, I hear cheesy lyrics stamped onto instrumental wankery.

[kirksnosehair]

Just responding to the original question:  I don't really find very much of Dream Theater's lyrics to be very spiritual at all.