AVENGED SEVENFOLD: We Urged MIKE PORTNOY Against Quitting DREAM THEATER

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Transatlantic just needs to be a more active band 

Now, that would be just incredible.

[LCArenas]

I don't think Portnoy is a particularly likeable person at this point, but the guy has done more for his fans than anyone I know.

This.

[phentalmyst]

... but the guy has done more for his fans than anyone I know.

i never understood this perspective and the lyrics of never enough are completely lost on me. the fans PAY for everything MP ever did. none of it was ever free and MP pocketed from his hard work. i'm not understating his dedication to DT or anything like that, but saying that everything he does is for the fans, to me, is a bit of a cop out. without the fans, DT wouldn't have continued to exist as they simply wouldn't make any bank. if anything, all of his work was intended to keep the current fans happy so that they would continue to spend $$ and also to gain new ones.

[wammabe]

... but the guy has done more for his fans than anyone I know.

i never understood this perspective and the lyrics of never enough are completely lost on me. the fans PAY for everything MP ever did. none of it was ever free and MP pocketed from his hard work. i'm not understating his dedication to DT or anything like that, but saying that everything he does is for the fans, to me, is a bit of a cop out. without the fans, DT wouldn't have continued to exist as they simply wouldn't make any bank. if anything, all of his work was intended to keep the current fans happy so that they would continue to spend $$ and also to gain new ones.

Although Dream Theater doesn't specifically work for the fans, some fans are unbelievably rude and annoying.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

... but the guy has done more for his fans than anyone I know.

i never understood this perspective and the lyrics of never enough are completely lost on me. the fans PAY for everything MP ever did. none of it was ever free and MP pocketed from his hard work. i'm not understating his dedication to DT or anything like that, but saying that everything he does is for the fans, to me, is a bit of a cop out. without the fans, DT wouldn't have continued to exist as they simply wouldn't make any bank. if anything, all of his work was intended to keep the current fans happy so that they would continue to spend $$ and also to gain new ones.

The point is that, whatever his motivation for doing so was, Portnoy always did a lot for DT fans.

Like... OK. Before DT, my favorite band was Metallica. Now, Metallica are much better about this now, but back around 2004, I was always kind of disappointed that no one in the band kept in constant touch with fans, that they didn't release more live DVDs, etc.

Around 2005, I discovered DT, and they did all those things. MP was always on his forum. They always released DVDs. There was a documentary with every DVD. Audio commentaries. Live bootlegs.

At the end of the day, I think that's going to be DT's biggest contribution to music: unbelievable fan-friendliness; and Portnoy was a big part of that.*

* Also, even though I - again - don't think Portnoy is a particularly likeable person at this point, I don't think he only did stuff for DT fans for money. He really cares about his fans, which is probably what gets him in trouble the most, actually. He cares too much for his own good.

[phentalmyst]

Although Dream Theater doesn't specifically work for the fans, some fans are unbelievably rude and annoying.

is this a shot at me?

The point is that, whatever his motivation for doing so was, Portnoy always did a lot for DT fans.

Like... OK. Before DT, my favorite band was Metallica. Now, Metallica are much better about this now, but back around 2004, I was always kind of disappointed that no one in the band kept in constant touch with fans, that they didn't release more live DVDs, etc.

Around 2005, I discovered DT, and they did all those things. MP was always on his forum. They always released DVDs. There was a documentary with every DVD. Audio commentaries. Live bootlegs.

At the end of the day, I think that's going to be DT's biggest contribution to music: unbelievable fan-friendliness; and Portnoy was a big part of that.*

* Also, even though I - again - don't think Portnoy is a particularly likeable person at this point, I don't think he only did stuff for DT fans for money. He really cares about his fans, which is probably what gets him in trouble the most, actually. He cares too much for his own good.

ok, i totally agree on the fan-friendliness as far as forums and public relations. that's fine. but releasing a dvd, at the end of the day, is about bringing in $. bonus material on said dvds is only going to get you more sales. maybe MP views at as doing something special for them, but i simply see it as business...smart business.

[Jamesman42]

Yeah, as....much as MP is being what he is right now, he did a LOT for the fans (for better or worse). very respectable for that.

[cramx3]

Yeah, as....much as MP is being what he is right now, he did a LOT for the fans (for better or worse). very respectable for that.

True, sure he made money off the fans, but at the end of the day he gave the fans what they wanted. We wanted live DVDs, commentaries, communication, rotating setlists... And he was a big reason why we got those things. Of course there are other motivations to do it other than "for the fans" but that doesn't matter because at the end of the day, he kept the fans happy. This is probably the only thing I like about the guy personally besides his actual drumming. I have a lot of respect for him for what he has done for the fans that most bands don't do. That doesn't change my opinion of him about other matters though.

[Jamesman42]

Yeah, as....much as MP is being what he is right now, he did a LOT for the fans (for better or worse). very respectable for that.

True, sure he made money off the fans, but at the end of the day he gave the fans what they wanted. We wanted live DVDs, commentaries, communication, rotating setlists... And he was a big reason why we got those things. Of course there are other motivations to do it other than "for the fans" but that doesn't matter because at the end of the day, he kept the fans happy. This is probably the only thing I like about the guy personally besides his actual drumming. I have a lot of respect for him for what he has done for the fans that most bands don't do. That doesn't change my opinion of him about other matters though.

Exactly. And to your very last point, being that kind of fan-friendly person in one regard doesn't make him free to say/do whatever. And that's where the current issues lie.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

People get spoiled. DT fans got spoiled. What other fans are constantly asking for an official live release of every single song the band has released so far? Portnoy did a fucking lot for the band, but I'm sure the band as it is will continue to do so. I recall Portnoy saying something like "thank ME for making the instrumental versions of the songs available......."(concerning Black Clouds). And hey, surprise! Also instrumentals for the new album available.

[cramx3]

People get spoiled. DT fans got spoiled. What other fans are constantly asking for an official release of every single song the band has released so far? Portnoy did a fucking lot for the band, but I'm sure the band as it is will continue to do so. I recall Portnoy saying something like "thank ME for making the instrumental versions of the songs available......."(concerning Black Clouds). And hey, surprise! Also instrumentals for the new album available.

lol, true.  While in the past MP did a lot of the extra work, but I believe the band stated others will pick up the slack to continue doing the things the fans got accustomed to. 

[Jamesman42]

Yes, but no stems /everythingisneverenoughlulz

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Maybe that has something to do with the mixer? Andy Wallace is a big guy in the industry, and maybe making those stems available had a big price for the DT guys to pay. Just speculating here.

[Jamesman42]

Joking darklol, that I was...making a joke...


MP

[Orbert]

MP?

Jamesman, are you really MP in disguise?

[Jamesman42]

Well, if I said no, would you believe me?

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

no....sorry to ruin the surprise for you. It was ME all along!

...let me turn off the "fan", I'm starting to get cold in here.


MP

[Jamesman42]

LISTEN !!! I am revealing a secret member for DTF in the coming months...let's just say that this is a dream come true of mine and that you all will be blown away....

But enough about me, did you all hear my drumming in my new band?

Carp Diem........
MP

[KevShmev]

Transatlantic just needs to be a more active band 

If Portnoy's wallet is really taking a hit as a result of no longer being in DT, like has been speculated, then unfortunately I think that makes it more unlikely that TA would ever become more active, as I can't see that being a project where the guys make a ton of money off of it.

Five years is a ridiculous amount of time.

It sounds like a guy who was asking for his exit visa.

I disagree.  I think it sounds like a guy who was used to getting his way and figured he would get it once again. 

* Also, even though I - again - don't think Portnoy is a particularly likeable person at this point, I don't think he only did stuff for DT fans for money. He really cares about his fans, which is probably what gets him in trouble the most, actually. He cares too much for his own good.

Agreed.  Plus, I think he does stuff that he wishes all of his favorite bands growing up would have done.  I think he has said that before.  Given that he is someone who wants anything and everything by the band he loves the most, even to this day, I think one of his main motivations was always giving the fans everything he figured he would want if he were just a fan.

[MetropolisxPt1]

Transatlantic just needs to be a more active band 

If Portnoy's wallet is really taking a hit as a result of no longer being in DT, like has been speculated, then unfortunately I think that makes it more unlikely that TA would ever become more active, as I can't see that being a project where the guys make a ton of money off of it.

Mp could sustain himself for long while at the rate he is going, he has also kept himself relevent in the drum world by winning awards which turn into money from tama promark and sabian on top his never ending project saga.

[BlobVanDam]

Maybe that has something to do with the mixer? Andy Wallace is a big guy in the industry, and maybe making those stems available had a big price for the DT guys to pay. Just speculating here.

I'd say it's more just a matter of not repeating themselves. If they do it on a few albums in a row, it's going to become expected, then people will be disappointed when they don't. On SC we got the 5.1 mix and the documentary, on BCASL we got the instrumental mixes and the stems, and on this one we get the drummer documentary and instrumental versions(?). I'm still waiting for the bonus action figure, to be honest. It's an incomplete collection now without Magini.

[?]

I don't think Portnoy is a particularly likeable person at this point, but the guy has done more for his fans than anyone I know.

This.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Maybe that has something to do with the mixer? Andy Wallace is a big guy in the industry, and maybe making those stems available had a big price for the DT guys to pay. Just speculating here.

I'd say it's more just a matter of not repeating themselves. If they do it on a few albums in a row, it's going to become expected, then people will be disappointed when they don't. On SC we got the 5.1 mix and the documentary, on BCASL we got the instrumental mixes and the stems, and on this one we get the drummer documentary and instrumental versions(?). I'm still waiting for the bonus action figure, to be honest. It's an incomplete collection now without Magini.

but you...you're the one who makes the action figurs. 

[ariich]

I'm still waiting for an album to come with an inflatable JR doll.

[MetropolisxPt1]

I'm still waiting for an album to come with an inflatable JR doll.

I was hoping for a black tee cargo pants and combat boots to complete it.

[wammabe]

Although Dream Theater doesn't specifically work for the fans, some fans are unbelievably rude and annoying.

is this a shot at me?

No! 
I haven't seen that kind of fan in DTF.

[Banny]

Does this mean people who blame A7X for MP quitting DT can stop now?

I will never not blame AX7 for MP leaving Dream Theater. Is it their fault? Of course not. Are they the reason MP got "tired" of DT only– to be not too tired of them to want to be back in when other doors closed? That all just seems a little convenient, hey?

I've lost a lot of respect for MP in the past year. I almost feel as if he was blinding me with DT love the past 8 or 9 years.

[tgstk2]

i will never lose respect for MP.
he made me interested in drumming and DT. i got all his DVD's and he was devoted to DT and there fans.
we want bootlegs, he provided good bootlegs, no shitty stuff, and that he's getting $ for all the hard work hours he spend on it it nothing but normal....(like if you like your boss, you say ahh well i work 24 hours today, but it's for free, just because i like you???).
he always gave comments on his forum and questions of fans, he made sure that every gig had a different setlist, made sure that what the fan bought was of a good quality, and this while the other members...well where not doing this however they do get $$ because of the royalities..now that's easy money!!

that he left DT was really shitty to me, but hey it's there choice, iam not in DT and i only know them from music, dvd,s interviews and such....so..i dont know them at all, nobody on here does. so why judge? maybe it turns out in 10 years that JMX is the biggest dick on earth?? how knows....
DT is alive, MP is making music and still talking to fans, but not it's MP fans not DT fans in general eventhough the majority of mp fans are dt fans. now with FB and twitter connecting to fans is easier and direct and that's not always good, for the poster, which in this case is MP, some post backfired..ahh well ....who cares.


MP was the only one in DT acutally making a shot when DT perfroms, while the other just stand ( i still hate it if JR slaps his leg  on the beat like he's doing a orchestra or something...really annoying!!!) ....besides of MP there was no showmanship at all in DT and now with MM the others are trying to fill that gap. MP is ...THE MAN ,still is , will every be...he's a great drummer, great muscian and a smart business man. all the love and respect for him and for DT... it's albout the music  at the end of the day... i pop in a  cd to listen to DT, not opening amagzine to read t here words over and over again.....

And AX7......thats was a fun ride for MP...so what....

[Madman Shepherd]

To be honest, can you really say that MP did ALL the work of all those extras the fans get?  Sure I get that he comes up with the ideas, and I'm sure he compiled all the Ytsejam stuff, but from what I understand he just oversees the final production.  A lot of it is just having a great group of people that can get things done.  So he wanted to release stems with BC&SL, all he has to do is tell the record company that and they get it done.  I really doubt he did more than that.  Same goes for a lot of other stuff.

Don't get me wrong, I love all the extras and MP sure was a driving force behind that but I don't think it was much more than that.

[tgstk2]

have you ever created a DVD for yourself?? just a normal vacation DVD who is only for personal purposes?
that even takes a whole week collecting all the great moments vids putting them in order adding stuff etc...and than just your low budget home recroding stuff..not something which will be put on shelfs.....


when you record a ....DVD
1: first you have to figure out on what venue you want to do this
2: you have to hire people who film, and you have to have many discussion on how tho film, where to film what etc
3: when that's done you ahve to go through all the footage of all teh camera's and compile your movie
4: the sound have to be checked, mixed enigineerd etc
5: the menu ahs th be thought about
6 the extras
7; the marketing part
8: the cover, the font evertying....
and when you have than seen the pre production product for the 130912385 time...than you can ask the reocrd companiny if they agree and than it can be produced (ofcourse the record company is conatstly involved... just saying)....

anyway this ia bitch process with trial and error...

alMP has spend more time off stage doing stuff for DT than on stage i think....

[snowdog]

i will never lose respect for MP.

For me there are two things here.  I have totally lost respect for Mike as a person in the last year.  But I still have the same amount of respect I did for him as a player.  And I appreciate what he did for the fans in the past.  But that's OK.  There are lots of other great artists out there that are jerks but make great music.  I can usually separate the two.

I saw someone recently suggest that part of his doing everything for the fans is because he loves the feedback from people saying he is the best in the world.  While I do think he is doing things he wanted to see his favorite bands do, I think that he also loves the praise that he gets from the fans.  He wants that validation.

On SC we got the 5.1 mix and the documentary

If that is a sign of what we can expect from 5.1 mixes from DT in the future, then I don't EVER want them to bother.  Maybe I have been spoiled by the Porcupine Tree, King Crimson, and Genesis 5.1 mixes, but that was just horrid.  I'm pretty sure Mike said that he was very unhappy with it himself.

[chrisbDTM]

i have lost respect for MP, but he will always be the original DT and LTE drummer, and i will think of him for that, even though his actions in the past year have been almost funny

[Jamesman42]

Until MP comes clean and takes back what he's said and changes/stops his way of publicly "addressing" things, my respect for him will remain lower than what it was.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

have you ever created a DVD for yourself?? just a normal vacation DVD who is only for personal purposes?
that even takes a whole week collecting all the great moments vids putting them in order adding stuff etc...and than just your low budget home recroding stuff..not something which will be put on shelfs.....


when you record a ....DVD
1: first you have to figure out on what venue you want to do this
2: you have to hire people who film, and you have to have many discussion on how tho film, where to film what etc
3: when that's done you ahve to go through all the footage of all teh camera's and compile your movie
4: the sound have to be checked, mixed enigineerd etc
5: the menu ahs th be thought about
6 the extras
7; the marketing part
8: the cover, the font evertying....
and when you have than seen the pre production product for the 130912385 time...than you can ask the reocrd companiny if they agree and than it can be produced (ofcourse the record company is conatstly involved... just saying)....

anyway this ia bitch process with trial and error...

alMP has spend more time off stage doing stuff for DT than on stage i think....

okay, yeah. Portnoy did all those things, but he wasn't probably the best DVD director out there. Yeah, it was cool, but at that rhythm of "OCD" sooner or later he was gonna get tired. No one told him he had to do those things, it was his choice. I wouldn't be very impressed if the next DT live DVD has an amazing direction, because the guys are probably get someone who really knows how to do that stuff.

[SystematicThought]

And this would be MP's response

I do everything for you guys! I'm a little hurt that you would feel that way DarkLord_Lalinc.
I do a lot for all of you "fans" out there. It would be nice to get some appreciation once in awhile.

All of you true fans out there, thank you

And yes, for your information, I do have OCD. I have all the symptoms, but never been diagnosed. But I know I have it

Never Enough,
MP


In all seriousness though, those DVDs were great, but he didn't need to do them. I was somewhat relieved when he said no DVD this past tour. I thought he'd take a little bit of a break. I guess not though.