Over two years after Black Clouds & Silver Linings released and I have to say..

[Chrissalix]

TCOT is great and is the best thing the band have done for ages. ANTR is mostly excellent as an opener but has some ridiculous crap in it like the blastbeats and the death metal rap. Wither is good but it's definitly the token ballad. AROP is dire. TBOT is too raw. All of the above (with the possible exception of Wither) possess some of the weakest lyrics in DT history. TSF is a glorified clip show but has its moments and is lyrically the only thing that really stands up as being any good.

I like the album. It's a mixture of excellence and a sort of terrible inspiration-less hangover from SC which was much much worse. It's certain better than SC and I marginally prefer it to 8vm. It's not a patch on anything before six degrees though.

[MetropolisxPt1]

It´s a good album but it´s probably on the lower half in the discography. I never could get into TCOT, before hearing it I was expecting a true epic but to me it failed terribly. It hasnt got anything of the golden formula that made the other epics incredible.

What formula?

a2 + b2 = c2 i do not detect myung in the formula

[Banny]

TCOT is what I like to call classic Dream Theater writing. This song is incredible. I really agree with the OP, I love the main theme that opens and closes this song and how it evolves. There isn't excessive wank happening, the guitar solo is beautiful, the first half kicks ass, the second half is just perfection. 2 years later ( really? 2 years?), TCOT has proven to be one of my favourite DT epics in the 20 minute category. Some of their strongest writing in years to my ears.

This song needs more appreciation from the masses.




Dear TCOT,
I love you more than life itself.  

Eternal Love,
Banny

[arvizu9618]

There is no such thing as a bad Dream Theater album. There are just awesome ones, and slightly less awesome ones, hahah.

This. I love every album. I love my least favorite, WDADU, and I love the rest as well.

I'm just glad WDADU was NOT the first time I heard of DT......

[FlyingBIZKIT]

There is no such thing as a bad Dream Theater album. There are just awesome ones, and slightly less awesome ones, hahah.

This. I love every album. I love my least favorite, WDADU, and I love the rest as well.

I'm just glad WDADU was NOT the first time I heard of DT......

I think I still would have explored their music, but wouldn't have had high expectations. My first album was Systematic Chaos. Then, I thought that album was just awesome. Now it's my least favorite LaBrie album by far.

[wammabe]

I think BC&SL has some great moments. It rounds up everything the band has done in the previous 3 albums. To be honest, I hope that ADTOE is completely different from all of those albums. I feel that DT was going through a lot of orgasmic experimentation and immediately froze on Octavarium... 

[TheGreatPretender]

Well, this album does have more tracks than any DT album since Train of Thought. And if you count Six Degrees as one whole epic, then it has more songs than any DT album since 1999. So something's certainly different. Frankly, one of the most disappointing things about Black Clouds was that there were only six songs. And yes, some of them are pretty awesome, but in some cases, large chunks of them didn't even sound that good and could've been replaced by another song.

[pain of occupation]

There is no such thing as a bad Dream Theater album. There are just awesome ones, and slightly less awesome ones, hahah.

The thing is, regardless of how "uninspired" people claim Silver Linings may be, it's still better than most of the stuff that comes out these days.

[Ravenheart]

The thing is, regardless of how "uninspired" people claim Silver Linings may be, it's still better than most of the stuff that comes out these days.

No it isn't. Maybe better than what gets played on radio Top 40 Countdowns, but there are handfuls of fantastic albums by bands doing far better, creative, imaginative, and innovative things with their music these days.

[TheGreatPretender]

The thing is, regardless of how "uninspired" people claim Silver Linings may be, it's still better than most of the stuff that comes out these days.

No it isn't. Maybe better than what gets played on radio Top 40 Countdowns, but there are handfuls of fantastic albums by bands doing far better, creative, imaginative, and innovative things with their music these days.

That doesn't contradict my statement. Read the "most of the stuff" part. I'm sure there are handfuls of geniuses out there, scattered throughout the world. And they might be more creative, more innovative, but half of them probably have incredibly generic vocalists, which can easily ruin a band. Empyria, for example, play great music, but their vocalist sounds like an uninspired Ozzy, and he brings that band down like 3 points for me.

[Ravenheart]

The thing is, regardless of how "uninspired" people claim Silver Linings may be, it's still better than most of the stuff that comes out these days.

No it isn't. Maybe better than what gets played on radio Top 40 Countdowns, but there are handfuls of fantastic albums by bands doing far better, creative, imaginative, and innovative things with their music these days.

That doesn't contradict my statement. Read the "most of the stuff" part. I'm sure there are handfuls of geniuses out there, scattered throughout the world. And they might be more creative, more innovative, but half of them probably have incredibly generic vocalists, which can easily ruin a band. Empyria, for example, play great music, but their vocalist sounds like an uninspired Ozzy, and he brings that band down like 3 points for me.

Not sure what that has to do with anything, but I'm talking about music in a general sense, which includes vocalists.

[TheGreatPretender]

Not sure what that has to do with anything, but I'm talking about music in a general sense, which includes vocalists.

I'm saying that some of the best music I've ever heard was ruined by crappy vocalists. At least with DT, we know we're getting LaBrie, and chances are if you're still listening to DT, you probably enjoy him as a vocalist.

[setrataeso]

Not sure what that has to do with anything, but I'm talking about music in a general sense, which includes vocalists.

I'm saying that some of the best music I've ever heard was ruined by crappy vocalists. At least with DT, we know we're getting LaBrie, and chances are if you're still listening to DT, you probably enjoy him as a vocalist.

Yeah, but you just totally changed the subject.

Hell, right now, I think Lady Gaga is doing more interesting things than Dream Theater is doing.

THAT'S RIGHT I SAID IT. I enjoyed Lady Gaga's The Fame and Fame Monster more than I enjoyed Black Clouds & Silver Linings. They were more interesting, and a refreshing release from a pop artist. Meanwhile Dream Theater just made the same album they've made before, and made it worse at that.

inb4flames

[Ravenheart]

Not sure what that has to do with anything, but I'm talking about music in a general sense, which includes vocalists.

I'm saying that some of the best music I've ever heard was ruined by crappy vocalists. At least with DT, we know we're getting LaBrie, and chances are if you're still listening to DT, you probably enjoy him as a vocalist.

Yeah, but you just totally changed the subject.

That's exactly what I was thinking. I was like, "Where did THAT come from?" 

Hell, right now, I think Lady Gaga is doing more interesting things than Dream Theater is doing.

THAT'S RIGHT I SAID IT. I enjoyed Lady Gaga's The Fame and Fame Monster more than I enjoyed Black Clouds & Silver Linings. They were more interesting, and a refreshing release from a pop artist. Meanwhile Dream Theater just made the same album they've made before, and made it worse at that.

inb4flames

No flames from me. I rather like a few of her radio hits, though I've never been motivated enough to listen to a full album.

I find most of DT's output to be embarrassing.

[ariich]

I find most of DT's output to be embarrassing.

wtf

[Ravenheart]

I find most of DT's output to be embarrassing.

wtf

Sorry, I meant recent  output.

[ariich]

I find most of DT's output to be embarrassing.

wtf

Sorry, I meant recent  output.

wtf

[TheGreatPretender]

Well, there comes a point in every bands' life where they reach the absolute best work they've ever done. And in the case of Dream Theater, in my opinion, that's Scenes From A Memory. So let's say they never surpass it. Does that mean they should retire? Or just change their style entirely to try and 'experiment' and do new things? Regardless whether the next album is going to be "better" or not as good as their previous works, the fact that I'm a fan of any given band means I'm looking forward to hearing some new songs from them. Because that's the sound I've come to love. So even if Silver Linings isn't quite as good as their previous works, it was still great to hear some new songs from them in 2009.

Same with this new album. I really doubt it'll be their best, or do something drastically different. Who gives a crap? I want to hear new Dream Theater, not Lady Gaga.

[Ravenheart]

I find most of DT's output to be embarrassing.

wtf

Sorry, I meant recent  output.

wtf

SHUTUP

[Jamesman42]

^Haha, last year I had class in a computer lab and we could listen to music, so my friend says "James! Give me your favorite band's name, everyone gets a turn to listen!" so I said "Hmm...how about Dream Theater...?" So he goes to youtube and finds a horrible live version of Surrounded...he shut it off halfway in, and I didn't disagree with it, because JLB sounded pretty bad on whatever version it was...and I got this vibe that everyone thought it was cheesy music.

[ariich]

Well, there comes a point in every bands' life where they reach the absolute best work they've ever done. And in the case of Dream Theater, in my opinion, that's Scenes From A Memory. So let's say they never surpass it. Does that mean they should retire? Or just change their style entirely to try and 'experiment' and do new things? Regardless whether the next album is going to be "better" or not as good as their previous works, the fact that I'm a fan of any given band means I'm looking forward to hearing some new songs from them. Because that's the sound I've come to love. So even if Silver Linings isn't quite as good as their previous works, it was still great to hear some new songs from them in 2009.

Same with this new album. I really doubt it'll be their best, or do something drastically different. Who gives a crap? I want to hear new Dream Theater, not Lady Gaga.

In my opinion, SFAM is one of their weakest albums and they've surpassed it with every album since.

[setrataeso]

Well, there comes a point in every bands' life where they reach the absolute best work they've ever done. And in the case of Dream Theater, in my opinion, that's Scenes From A Memory. So let's say they never surpass it. Does that mean they should retire? Or just change their style entirely to try and 'experiment' and do new things? Regardless whether the next album is going to be "better" or not as good as their previous works, the fact that I'm a fan of any given band means I'm looking forward to hearing some new songs from them. Because that's the sound I've come to love. So even if Silver Linings isn't quite as good as their previous works, it was still great to hear some new songs from them in 2009.

Same with this new album. I really doubt it'll be their best, or do something drastically different. Who gives a crap? I want to hear new Dream Theater, not Lady Gaga.

But that's a pretty poor way of looking at it. A band should never say "well, our best is behind us, time to start releasing the same shit every 2 years now".

If Dream Theater truly felt like their best work is behind them, and that they feel like they can't make an even better album by making interesting changes to their sound, then I guess they really are not all they're cracked up to be.

[Jamesman42]

Well, there comes a point in every bands' life where they reach the absolute best work they've ever done. And in the case of Dream Theater, in my opinion, that's Scenes From A Memory. So let's say they never surpass it. Does that mean they should retire? Or just change their style entirely to try and 'experiment' and do new things? Regardless whether the next album is going to be "better" or not as good as their previous works, the fact that I'm a fan of any given band means I'm looking forward to hearing some new songs from them. Because that's the sound I've come to love. So even if Silver Linings isn't quite as good as their previous works, it was still great to hear some new songs from them in 2009.

Same with this new album. I really doubt it'll be their best, or do something drastically different. Who gives a crap? I want to hear new Dream Theater, not Lady Gaga.

In my opinion, SFAM is one of their weakest albums and they've surpassed it with every album since.

Agreed minus SC.

[N4Player]

Still the best album I have heard in the last 2 years. TCOT despite its lyrical flaws, is my personal DT benchmark tune. The album and hearing TCOT live made me an over the top fanatic so I will always be partial to it.

[DJay32]

Well, there comes a point in every bands' life where they reach the absolute best work they've ever done. And in the case of Dream Theater, in my opinion, that's Scenes From A Memory. So let's say they never surpass it. Does that mean they should retire? Or just change their style entirely to try and 'experiment' and do new things? Regardless whether the next album is going to be "better" or not as good as their previous works, the fact that I'm a fan of any given band means I'm looking forward to hearing some new songs from them. Because that's the sound I've come to love. So even if Silver Linings isn't quite as good as their previous works, it was still great to hear some new songs from them in 2009.

Same with this new album. I really doubt it'll be their best, or do something drastically different. Who gives a crap? I want to hear new Dream Theater, not Lady Gaga.

In my opinion, SFAM is one of their weakest albums and they've surpassed it with every album since.

Agreed including Systematic Chaos. Though don't take that as an insult; I loved that album.

Personally, I found Black Clouds & Silver Linings to be quite a journey for me to listen to. It has its ups and downs, but I've learned to appreciate the heavy metal rap, the blast beats, the generic lyrics about freemasonry, burning everything to the ground whenever one gets writer's block, teaching us about happiness, self-restraint and inventory, and all talks about cars and brothers and wine. I just sing along to those parts, and I embrace their ridiculousness. I sing along with a smile on my face.

Truth is, if Dream Theater's songs were dreams, their music would be the totally realistic part that gets you lost, then the lyrics are the parts that stand out as "Hm, maybe this isn't serious." We need those lyrics, or else Dream Theater'll just look like that band that doesn't do anything fun.

[TheGreatPretender]

But that's a pretty poor way of looking at it. A band should never say "well, our best is behind us, time to start releasing the same shit every 2 years now".

If Dream Theater truly felt like their best work is behind them, and that they feel like they can't make an even better album by making interesting changes to their sound, then I guess they really are not all they're cracked up to be.

Well, no even recently, they said "We think our best work is ahead of us." But frankly, I wouldn't want there to be some drastic changes to their sound. I like the Dream Theater sound, and as many bands as there are that try to imitate them, they'll never be Dream Theater. And I need a refreshment of Dream Theater songs every couple of years.

But that's not the point. I'm just saying I think SFAM is their best album and I don't expect their new stuff to surpass that. My point is that in spite of that fact, I still want to hear new music from Dream Theater. It's Dream Theater, they are my favorite band, and I want to hear their music. Not some completely different music from the same group of musicians. It was interesting to hear Liquid Tension Experiment, and certainly refreshing, but at the end of the day, I want to hear Dream Theater.

[setrataeso]

Not sure what point you are trying to make with the DT imitators bit...I don't recall bringing that up in my argument.

The problem is that I'm saying I don't want the same Dream Theater again. I'm bored of it, and I don't think they have any great ideas left in that style. However, I still believe they can create their best album, but it won't be by doing the same thing they've been doing for the past decade. You're telling me that I'm wrong and that they are still the "same ol' DT", which is exactly what I don't want, but rather what you want. I really don't follow what point you're trying to make anymore...

[darkshade]

Yea, BC&SL is a journey. Just like 8V and SDoIT

[TheGreatPretender]

Not sure what point you are trying to make with the DT imitators bit...I don't recall bringing that up in my argument.

The problem is that I'm saying I don't want the same Dream Theater again. I'm bored of it, and I don't think they have any great ideas left in that style. However, I still believe they can create their best album, but it won't be by doing the same thing they've been doing for the past decade. You're telling me that I'm wrong and that they are still the "same ol' DT", which is exactly what I don't want, but rather what you want. I really don't follow what point you're trying to make anymore...

My point is that, if they completely change their style change their sound, and do something completely new and unique, sure it might be good, but then we wouldn't have any new DT songs. It might be great music, but I'm not satisfied with JUST listening to DT's old stuff, I want to hear some new stuff with the same style of music.
Look at Iron Maiden. They have a very trademark sound to them, and don't really leave their comfort zone, but what's wrong with that? They have a legacy, and when a new Iron Maiden album comes out, I want to hear Iron Maiden. And even if they didn't do anything especially new or unique with The Final Frontier, it was still a great album, and it was still refreshing to hear some new songs from the band I know and love.

Same with Dream Theater. If they're coming out with a new album, I want to know that I'm getting a Dream Theater album. Not a Dream Theater does something completely different that doesn't sound like Dream Theater. Even their cover albums... Honestly, I'm not a big fan of Pink Floyd, I just don't really dig the sound. They're good to listen to casually. So when DT did PF's "Dark Side Of The Moon" cover concert. Sure, it's the same musicians playing just as good as they can, but it's a different sound. It's not DT. It doesn't have the same heaviness combined with virtuosity. So if that was actually a DT concert, it would probably be my least favorite. Same with all the other covers they did. I like them as interpretations, and even though I'm a big fan of Iron Maiden, if I were to take "Number Of The Beast" and judge it by Dream Theater standards, I wouldn't like it as much.

[setrataeso]

Not sure what point you are trying to make with the DT imitators bit...I don't recall bringing that up in my argument.

The problem is that I'm saying I don't want the same Dream Theater again. I'm bored of it, and I don't think they have any great ideas left in that style. However, I still believe they can create their best album, but it won't be by doing the same thing they've been doing for the past decade. You're telling me that I'm wrong and that they are still the "same ol' DT", which is exactly what I don't want, but rather what you want. I really don't follow what point you're trying to make anymore...

My point is that, if they completely change their style change their sound, and do something completely new and unique, sure it might be good, but then we wouldn't have any new DT songs. It might be great music, but I'm not satisfied with JUST listening to DT's old stuff, I want to hear some new stuff with the same style of music.
Look at Iron Maiden. They have a very trademark sound to them, and don't really leave their comfort zone, but what's wrong with that? They have a legacy, and when a new Iron Maiden album comes out, I want to hear Iron Maiden. And even if they didn't do anything especially new or unique with The Final Frontier, it was still a great album, and it was still refreshing to hear some new songs from the band I know and love.

Wait, so if they changed their sound, you wouldn't consider it to be true Dream Theater? You sound like you are too afraid of change.

I won't argue the Iron Maiden point, because I see it the same way. You will never see me arguing that Maiden is diverse or challenging or innovative. They've been doing the same thing they're whole career, and that's fine for them. That's why they will never be one of favourite bands. I love 'em, but for their fun, energetic 80s metal sound, not for their innovation.

That's what differentiates Dream Theater and Iron Maiden for me. I don't expect a different sound out of Maiden, I don't think they have it in them after 30-odd years. But Dream Theater is still in the game, they still have it in them to change up their style a bit, and I think it would them a world of good to step out of their comfort zone. But, you clearly don't agree.

[TheGreatPretender]

Wait, so if they changed their sound, you wouldn't consider it to be true Dream Theater? You sound like you are too afraid of change.

Maybe, I'm not gonna deny or admit that.
But I love the Dream Theater sound, and I want to hear some new songs with that sound.

Take LaBrie's latest album, Static Impulse. I like it a lot. But yes, like I said, if that was a DT album, I would hate it. It has a very different sound, and honestly, one that I haven't really heard before. I don't know if it's new or not. But if I want to hear a Dream Theater song, I wouldn't be resorting to that album.

That's what differentiates Dream Theater and Iron Maiden for me. I don't expect a different sound out of Maiden, I don't think they have it in them after 30-odd years. But Dream Theater is still in the game, they still have it in them to change up their style a bit, and I think it would them a world of good to step out of their comfort zone. But, you clearly don't agree.

DT has been around for over 20 years, (25 if you count the time before their first album), so I'd say they're reaching that veteran status as well. They're all over 40, LaBrie is almost 50. They're not THAT far from Iron Maiden. I mean, would you have said 10 years ago that Iron Maiden still had it in them to change up their style?

Now, if they did something new and different for one album, and then went back to their current style, I'd have no problem with that. But that's Train Of Thought to me. I thought that ToT was vastly different from all their previous albums. And then they went back to Octavarium which they tried to make like a "Classic DT Album" which, I don't know if I'd say they succeeded, but it was nice to hear some more proggy stuff from them again. If they just kept making super heavy Train of Thought type albums, people would say, "We miss the old melodic prog side of Dream Theater." I know I would have.

[setrataeso]

Well, I liked Static Impulse more than DT's past two albums. It had some great songs on it, and it was nice to hear what styles James was interested in dipping into. It was one of my favourite albums of 2010.

Do I think Iron Maiden was capable of putting out a vastly different album 10 years ago? Yes and no. Any band is capable of changing their sound. But, I never did expect Maiden to do that after they had tried the different sounds in the 90s. They could have, but I'm content with what they are putting out right now. It doesn't blow me away, but I don't need revolutionary albums coming from Maiden.

For DT, I fully believe they can change. They were trailblazers in the prog metal genre. They haven't lost their talent, I think they've just lost their vision. I truly believe they are capable of reinventing themselves after growing stagnant in the recent years. Most importantly, I believe they are capable of making a GOOD album with a brand new sound. The band just doesn't seem confident in themselves to make that leap.

[Ravenheart]

Not every band who's been around for awhile inevitably goes stagnant. Take Depeche Mode, for example. They've been making albums for over 30 years, and each consecutive album has been a change in their style, with various new, daring experiments thrown in to challenge their audience. They still maintain a massive cult following and sell out arenas and stadiums whenever they tour, and they have also remained remarkable consistent in quality.

[setrataeso]

Not every band who's been around for awhile inevitably goes stagnant. Take Depeche Mode, for example. They've been making albums for over 30 years, and each consecutive album has been a change in their style, with various new, daring experiments thrown in to challenge their audience. They still maintain a massive cult following and sell out arenas and stadiums whenever they tour, and they have also remained remarkable consistent in quality.

That's true. No band has to get stuck in stagnancy. Any band has the potential to innovate. Most choose to release the same stuff year after year. I have respect for bands that can reinvent themselves, and still produce good music. Those are the bands that have real talent. Noodling and 20-minute songs do not require talent. Creativity and innovation require talent.

[Ravenheart]

Not every band who's been around for awhile inevitably goes stagnant. Take Depeche Mode, for example. They've been making albums for over 30 years, and each consecutive album has been a change in their style, with various new, daring experiments thrown in to challenge their audience. They still maintain a massive cult following and sell out arenas and stadiums whenever they tour, and they have also remained remarkable consistent in quality.

That's true. No band has to get stuck in stagnancy. Any band has the potential to innovate. Most choose to release the same stuff year after year. I have respect for bands that can reinvent themselves, and still produce good music. Those are the bands that have real talent. Noodling and 20-minute songs do not require talent. Creativity and innovation require talent.

Yup, and I think Dream Theater are capable of doing that, even this late in their career. I don't see what's so talented about guitar and keyboard solo circle-jerks.