MP is gone...

[TheGreatPretender]

Why show resentment towards someone you don't know and has made 25 years of great music with the band? It seems a little ironic.

Because when I heard the news, I was worried that the band was gonna fall apart or that the music was gonna suffer because of some new drummer they may hire. And I mean, after the Spirit Carries On documentary, I knew they were in good hands with Mangini, but actually hearing the result of their progress really put my mind at ease.

[wammabe]

When MP left I was only worried that DT would break up or something. To be honest, I think MP never really fit that well in DT pictures.

[Perpetual Change]

Why show resentment towards someone you don't know and has made 25 years of great music with the band? It seems a little ironic.

The people who "resent" (terrible world choice, btw-- being horribly disappointed with someone and thankful they've moved on is hardly 'resent') would disagree with the "25 years of great music part." For those people who are glad Mike's out, they see a downward spiral with Mike at the creative helm. It'd be more accurate to ask, "Why be disappointed toward someone who has followed up over a decade of great music shows with 5-10 years of less interesting music and less awesome tours?"

[MetropolisxPt1]

Why show resentment towards someone you don't know and has made 25 years of great music with the band? It seems a little ironic.

The people who "resent" (terrible world choice, btw-- being horribly disappointed with someone and thankful they've moved on is hardly 'resent') would disagree with the "25 years of great music part." For those people who are glad Mike's out, they see a downward spiral with Mike at the creative helm. It'd be more accurate to ask, "Why be disappointed toward someone who has followed up over a decade of great music shows with 5-10 years of less interesting music and less awesome tours?"

To show bitterness towards someone is more then being disappointed the two are not connected. Schadenfreude

So in your opinion MP is the sole reason why DT's music/live shows have gotten worse?

[TheGreatPretender]

I don't see how shows like Live at Budokan and Score were worse than their live shows in the 90's.

[MetropolisxPt1]

I don't see how shows like Live at Budokan and Score were worse than their live shows in the 90's.

This

[Perpetual Change]

Why show resentment towards someone you don't know and has made 25 years of great music with the band? It seems a little ironic.

The people who "resent" (terrible world choice, btw-- being horribly disappointed with someone and thankful they've moved on is hardly 'resent') would disagree with the "25 years of great music part." For those people who are glad Mike's out, they see a downward spiral with Mike at the creative helm. It'd be more accurate to ask, "Why be disappointed toward someone who has followed up over a decade of great music shows with 5-10 years of less interesting music and less awesome tours?"

To show bitterness towards someone is more then being disappointed the two are not connected. Schadenfreude

I'm not going to get into the typical "let's pull our dictionaries out" internet debate. But what I see around the internet in regards to fan's opinions on Mike Portnoy is VERY LITTLE resentment or bitterness, and mostly disappointment. The only "bitterness" I've sensed, to be honest, comes from the other side of the camp, through opinions like "MP WAS DT". But I'm not getting into that. Not here, anyway.

So in your opinion MP is the sole reason why DT's music/live shows have gotten worse?

I'm not sure myself. I think it's very possible that MP is the main reason why DT's music had gotten worse. He was the creative producer, afterall, and often called the shots about which parts stayed and went based on his perception of "what the DT fans would go for". Only time will tell, though. If this new album has none of the problems the last few did (and, fwiw, OtBoA doesn't) then I'll be convinced that Mike's role sitting in the producer's chair was really the big problem many people thought.

Aside from that, I'm sorry, but Mike's lead-vocals also bumped many Dream Theater songs that would have been 8 or 9's for me down to 6's and 7's. At first, around SDOIT and 8va, it was no big deal. But when they started creeping into almost every song, it became apparent just how much that aspect of Mike's contributions were hurting the band-- going by this fan's criteria, anyway.

As far as live shows go-- I didn't say they've gotten "worse." If anything, the performances are much better now. But the shows are shorter, and the setlists were starting to feature songs that should have been retired long ago (like Constant Motion). And while I personally thought the Progressive Nation shows were great, you can tell just by looking at the sales that many, many fans did not.

[Ravenheart]

I never even cared.

[SystematicThought]

Going along with what PC and Metrop are talking about, I agree with PC in saying that it is a possibility that MP was the reason why the music was getting stale. He would often bring up on his forum how he would always get his way, something he would boast about. If you fight him on something, he will always get his way. This can reflect in the writing of the music, MP was always being influenced by other metal bands and more of the mainstream ones. If a song was going in one direction and MP wanted to go in another, although band members may have wanted expand upon the current direction, MP would sway them to his side. You can see that happening a lot on JR's BC&SL studio updates.

[TheGreatPretender]

I'm not going to get into the typical "let's pull our dictionaries out" internet debate. But what I see around the internet in regards to fan's opinions on Mike Portnoy is VERY LITTLE resentment or bitterness, and mostly disappointment. The only "bitterness" I've sensed, to be honest, comes from the other side of the camp, through opinions like "MP WAS DT". But I'm not getting into that. Not here, anyway.

Well, it may have also been a better way for me to cope with his leaving. It was just easier to say, "There he is. The defector. Way to blow off DT for A7X. What a dumb move. I never liked him anyway." And it wasn't necessarily begrudging, or true, it was just a way to deal with his leaving.
Because honestly, I don't know how other people are, but I'm the kind of person who actually gives a crap about a band and its members. And if I find out that JP has a drug problem, for example, I'm gonna be sad, and I'm gonna worry about the guy. And no, I don't have to know him personally for that! But I do know enough about him, I've seen interviews, I know DT's history, I've seen enough footage to feel like I DO know the guy. And whether I do or not isn't important. But it's perfectly justifiable to feel a personal connection with members of one's favorite band.

Aside from that, I'm sorry, but Mike's lead-vocals also bumped many Dream Theater songs that would have been 8 or 9's for me down to 6's and 7's. At first, around SDOIT and 8va, it was no big deal. But when they started creeping into almost every song, it became apparent just how much that aspect of Mike's contributions were hurting the band-- going by this fan's criteria, anyway.

This I agree with wholeheartedly. Mike Mangini is one type of drummer and he's great. But he is different from Portnoy, and maybe some things might go missing in the mix. So yeah, there will be things about MP's drumming that I will miss... His vocals, however, I won't miss one bit. Not his lead vocals, not his backup vocals, not his screaming shit. So to that I say good riddance. He's a phenomenal drummer, and he should just stick to that craft.

[MetropolisxPt1]

point justified, I'm just a very laid back person that doesnt like to worry about things i cannot control.

[SystematicThought]

I feel sympathy for Mike in regards to moving on from Dream Theater. He was probably hoping for a great gig with Avenged Sevenfold and than they announced a new drummer while MP was still playing with them. They didn't wait until the current leg ended at the end of December, they did it in the beginning

MP actually kind of dissed A7X in a recent interview, it probably wasn't intentional, but he was saying how his wife has called his playing on Adrenaline Mob the best work he has done in a band. He goes on to say how that means a lot since he has played in Dream Theater and a 'decent' band like Avenged Sevenfold.

So in the regard to having the door shut in his face with A7X and moving on from a band he's been with for 25 years, yeah I have a lot of sympathy for the guy. If only he had handled the DT exit a little bit better

[TheGreatPretender]

I feel sympathy for Mike in regards to moving on from Dream Theater. He was probably hoping for a great gig with Avenged Sevenfold and than they announced a new drummer while MP was still playing with them. They didn't wait until the current leg ended at the end of December, they did it in the beginning

You know what's messed up though? I mean, A7X had huge respect for MP, obviously they're DT fans at least to some extent.
So, it almost seemed to me like they let Mike go because he left DT and they hoped he'd get back into it if he was off their 'leash' so to speak. Meanwhile, DT (justifiably) declined bringing MP back into the band. So it's almost like A7X shot themselves in the foot.
Either that, or, since Mike is a recovering alcoholic, they found it not fun touring with him because he's a more serious and proficient musician, and they seem like the kinds of guys who like to party after a gig.

[MetropolisxPt1]

I think MP not going on with A7x had alot to do with Mike's alcohol and drug problems in the past, from what i hear even after the rev overdosed the band members did not "slow down" at all and the partying/drugs persisted. The a7x gig probably came from a showing of respect for the rev because MP was the revs biggest idol but who knows.

[TheGreatPretender]

No but honestly, it could have been as simple as, "This guy's awesome. But he doesn't like to party with us after the gig. He just comes off as some old, uptight man," and it could have been a reason to get a new guy who fits in more. There's definitely a generation gap there.
I'd love to be in Dream Theater, but honestly, if I was, they'd probably see me as some kid, and I'd see them all as these older idol type guys. Whereas, the relationship has to be more even than that. And that's kind of impossible with, what? Like a 10 year difference?

[SystematicThought]

I think A7X also cited the DT break-up as a reason. It wasn't handled well. I swear I remember hearing something about that. They didn't want to be seen as the reason MP left DT

[TheGreatPretender]

So there you go. It's basically a neverending cycle of doom. "Why did MP leave DT? Because he wanted to do other stuff, like A7X. Why did A7X dump him? Because they didn't want to be the reason DT broke up. Why didn't DT take MP back? Because he left them for A7X, and they had to find and hire a replacement." It's just perpetual cause and effect which, any way you spin it, doesn't lead to MP going back into DT. But the point is, the whole reason why he left DT ended up being null and void BECAUSE he left them in the first place.

[KevShmev]

I think A7X also cited the DT break-up as a reason. It wasn't handled well. I swear I remember hearing something about that. They didn't want to be seen as the reason MP left DT

It also wouldn't surprise me if Portnoy drove them nuts with constant talk about it on the tour after his departure from DT, and they didn't want to keep him around anymore.  I doubt Portnoy is the kind of guy who doesn't talk a lot about the major stuff going on in his professional life (as his tweets and posts over the years pretty much prove).  

I remember on Neal Morse's Making of Testimony II DVD, there was a part where Portnoy was talking to Neal about all of the albums or tours he had done that year, or something to that effect, and when Dream Theater was mentioned, the shot quickly faded to black and something else unrelated to that was immediately shown after.  I remember thinking that Portnoy probably had some crack to make about it, but didn't want it on the DVD, hence the quick fade to black.  Of course I am speculating, but given what we have seen of his personality over the years, it is quite possible.

[chrisbDTM]

I think A7X also cited the DT break-up as a reason. It wasn't handled well. I swear I remember hearing something about that. They didn't want to be seen as the reason MP left DT

it also started quite the fan war on some websites, as there were too many misinformed dt fans thinking he left dt to be in a7x (as the only reason)

[TheGreatPretender]

I think A7X also cited the DT break-up as a reason. It wasn't handled well. I swear I remember hearing something about that. They didn't want to be seen as the reason MP left DT

it also started quite the fan war on some websites, as there were too many misinformed dt fans thinking he left dt to be in a7x (as the only reason)

I don't think they were misinformed. I think it was just like, fan rage talking. You know, "He left DT for that crappy band? What a shit move! I don't care what he said, it's obvious why he did that. For A7X!"
And no, I wasn't one of those people, but it honestly seemed like it wasn't that fans didn't know, or didn't listen, it's that they didn't WANT to listen because of how outraged they were.

[chrisbDTM]

and that fan rage backlash really had to have turned a7x off, cause they kinda got caught in the middle

[TheGreatPretender]

and that fan rage backlash really had to have turned a7x off, cause they kinda got caught in the middle

Well yeah, because in return, what did A7X fans do? They said, "Fuck DT. That's a shit band! A7X is where it's at!" And I mean, if I was A7X, I'd be like, "Dude... If you're gonna talk like that about DT, then you shouldn't be our fan." I mean, not in those words, otherwise, my manager would probably kick my ass, but that's how I'd feel.