TCOT vs ITPOE

[jonny108]

TCOT! In my top 5. No contest.

[YtseBitsySpider]

The Count of Tuscany. No match.

this.
even as one song...ITPOE is pretty far down their epic list.

[RandalGraves]

Ya know, I'm JUST starting to warm up to TCOT.  The lyrics are really bad.  I understand they're very tongue-in-cheek, but it brings the song down.  With that said, The Reckoning drags ITPOE down even more.  I hate the fact that I usually only listen to ITPOE up to that point.  For me, TCOT just barely squeaks by.

[Sixtease]

A really tough call. I went with In the Presence of Enemies because I was more obsessed with it after the release of Systematic Chaos than I was with The Count of Tuscany after the release of Black Clouds and Silver Linings. I love both of them really much though.

[IdoSC]

ITPOE is an intense song, I love it all the way through, the only con I can think of is MP's backing vocals. I don't mind the imaginary lyrics because they're sort of well executed in my eyes. In TCOT, however, I don't appreciate a few moments in the first half of the song, I don't like the lyrics much, and again, MP's backing vocals, though I feel it's worse in TCOT.

Both songs are great, one of them might be in my top 10, not sure. Though I personally like ITPOE more.

[?]

The Count, by miles! I don't like ITPOE 2 much, too much pointless wankery. If it was as good as part 1, this would be tougher.

[Infinite Cactus]

The Count of Tuscany Wins. As a whole I don't like ITPOE. But I love part 1 and i love the very beginning and end of part 2. If it came down to individual tracks it'd look like:
ITPOE pt.1
TCOT
ITPOE pt. 2

[bosk1]

I love how some people say TCOT somehow has "bad" lyrics, but even though the album has been out almost two years now, I still have yet to see even a single explanation of what that supposedly means.

[YtseBitsySpider]

I guess they mean it's a hokey story or something or other.

I personally LOVE the lyrics...the story.....everything...I find it really cool.

[IronEarthTheater]

TCOT is a top 3 song for me, so this is easy.  BUT... I love ITPOE as well.  The lyrics don't bother me in either case, because I actually think they fit the songs very well.  I agree that the Reckoning isn't quite the highlight for me, but it represents more of a "missed opportunity" than anything that brings the song down.  Honestly, the only thing I don't care for is that they broke it into two pieces - I would prefer it be one... it's a bit annoying skipping through the rest of the tracks on the CD to finish the song.

[bosk1]

I personally LOVE the lyrics...the story.....everything...I find it really cool.

Yeah, same here.

[jcmoorehead]

I love how some people say TCOT somehow has "bad" lyrics, but even though the album has been out almost two years now, I still have yet to see even a single explanation of what that supposedly means.

Probably because they're a bit silly, literal and not stuffed with metaphors or whatever. Personally I think they fit what the song is about pretty well, the meaning of the song is pretty light/comical in nature and the lyrics show us that.

[jingle.boy]

Despite how painful The Reckoning is, ITPOE has the killer opening, amazing unison at the end of Pt 1, fantastic vocals in Heretic, pounding metal in the Slaughter and an excellent finish with Salvation.  Slaughter of the Damned live was the best 3 minutes of 2007.

ITPOE by a small margin.

[Sixtease]

I personally LOVE the lyrics...the story.....everything...I find it really cool.

Yeah, same here.

+1 to TCOT lyrics appreciation movement

[Ħ]

Seems like a lot of people dislike ITPOE because of Part 2.  This confuzzles me because it is insanely awesome and DT has never done anything like it.  Aside from The Reckoning, everything is 10/10.

[bosk1]

I love how some people say TCOT somehow has "bad" lyrics, but even though the album has been out almost two years now, I still have yet to see even a single explanation of what that supposedly means.

Probably because they're a bit silly, literal and not stuffed with metaphors or whatever. Personally I think they fit what the song is about pretty well, the meaning of the song is pretty light/comical in nature and the lyrics show us that.

I don't find them "silly."  But as far as "literal" and "not stuffed with metaphors," neither of those qualities = "bad."  I agree with you that they fit the song very well.  

Part 2...DT has never done anything like it.  

 How so?  I'm not bagging on the song by any means, but I don't hear anything that jumps out at me as atypical for DT.

[Ħ]

Hard to put my finger on it.....it's just......brutal.  The chanting crowd, along with the driving riffage, the sudden burst into a wicked chorus....the closest thing I could compare it to is the "run, fast" section of TGP, but even that sounds slightly less chunky than ITPOE. 

I mean it's not completely unDT; it's just very unique is all.

[jcmoorehead]

I love how some people say TCOT somehow has "bad" lyrics, but even though the album has been out almost two years now, I still have yet to see even a single explanation of what that supposedly means.

Probably because they're a bit silly, literal and not stuffed with metaphors or whatever. Personally I think they fit what the song is about pretty well, the meaning of the song is pretty light/comical in nature and the lyrics show us that.

I don't find them "silly."  But as far as "leteral" and "not stuffed with metaphors," neither of those qualities = "bad."  I agree with you that they fit the song very well. 

I agree, I don't think that makes the lyrics bad either, I'd much rather the lyrics be literal and make sense and convey the message of the song then see them use metaphor on top of metaphor and either lose the message or just end up with it making no sense whatsoever.

[Perpetual Change]

I like them both about equally. Part One is great and Part Two, for all its flaws, is still the most interesting thing on the album musically. Dark Master just kills me though.

[Sixtease]

Dark Master just kills me though.

That's what dark masters do. :-)

[wasteland]

Easily the Count for me. I just love (especially live) the long middle section which to many sounds like a filler phase, and which nonetheless ranks in my personal top three moments off BCSL. I also never had any issues with the lyrics, since I know very well how most people from Tuscany relate with strangers, and I always crack when I try to figure out the way all the mishap developed  

As for ITPOE, I just fail to digest the "These are some fuckin' metal lyrics" section, while the rest of the song is quite great. But to say it all, it is my least favourite epic...

[mariocalin]

Both are a little piece of Progressive art, but I prefer TCOT. But anyway I would play both in a cooncert 

[fadetoblackdude7]

The Count. It's way more original, it flows better and is musically superior.

I remember when BC&SL came out and around the 9 or 10 minute mark in the song I was like 'Oh, here comes the crazy forced instrumental section again' and then they pulled a fast one by breaking it down and making it mellow, then went into the epic closing.......I was speechless. 

[VioletS16]

Ya know, I'm JUST starting to warm up to TCOT.  The lyrics are really bad.  I understand they're very tongue-in-cheek, but it brings the song down.  With that said, The Reckoning drags ITPOE down even more.  I hate the fact that I usually only listen to ITPOE up to that point.  For me, TCOT just barely squeaks by.

This.
Except I choose ITPOE becasue 'Heretic' makes up for it all...

May be blasphemey but I hate TCOT.

[m0hawk]

What's up with all the hate for Reckoning? I find it quite fun, tbh. It's not as draggy as ANTR's or BTL's second half.

[energythief]

I love how some people say TCOT somehow has "bad" lyrics, but even though the album has been out almost two years now, I still have yet to see even a single explanation of what that supposedly means.

Ok, here's my take.

Overall, the lyrics feel like they were guest-written by a sixth grader. They lack the subtlety, sophistication and wit that are trademark DT. It's then a combination of the deadpan delivery, Portnoy's voice accenting certain phrases which then come out as funny instead of intense, and a few cringe-worthy lines.  The really bad lines to me are:

Let me introduce
My brother
A bearded gentleman
Historian
Sucking on his pipe
Distinguished accent
Making me uptight
No accident

Now wait a minute man
That's not how it is
You must be confused
That isn't who I am

The thing that bothers me the most, I suppose, is how frightened the character is for apparently no reason. Sure, I get that there's a story behind it, but that story isn't adequately explained in the lyrics, so his "fear of death" comes out of nowhere and seems over the top. I've said before, it's too bad they already had a song called "Panic Attack" because that would be a perfect name for this one.

[Banny]

Most definitely TCOT. I really like both, but I think that TCOT is musically on par with Dream Theater's finest work. It's definitely one of my favorite epics, and while I know the lyrics aren't great, I don't really mind it.

[Mr. Beale]

What's up with all the hate for Reckoning? I find it quite fun, tbh. It's not as draggy as ANTR's or BTL's second half.

Way too wonkery, even for DT.

[climberboy]

TCoT, The harmonics in the intro, The volume Swells, the acoustic bit, and the outro makes it the winner. The outro is among the best thing they've ever done, makes you feel accomplished and triumphant.

This, i'm glad im not the only one who feels the same about the outro........magical 

[IdoSC]

I love how some people say TCOT somehow has "bad" lyrics, but even though the album has been out almost two years now, I still have yet to see even a single explanation of what that supposedly means.

I'm gonna speak for myself here, because I'm one of those people who say it has "bad lyrics"; I have my own opinion about the lyrics of every single (non instrumental) song, yet I never expressed it online. Each person is entitled to his own opinion, whether or not someone else tried to explain it, or the opposite opinion, online.

[farsight]

I think if there's one song that ought to be forgiven for its bad lyrics, its TCOT.
honestly, the lyrics could be "Tomorrow is Saturday, and Sunday comes afterwards" and it would still be one damn great melody.
and I dare say TCOT is the best DT song post SFAM (in terms of musicality).

[krands85]

Both are among my favourite tracks and both are easily the best 2 songs from the last couple of albums for me.

I think I have to favour ItPoE though. For a while after Black Clouds came out, I would have voted for TCOT, but I think overall, it's not quite as good.