DT Concept Albums?

[chknptpie]

With the high volume of discussion we often have on this topic, I thought why not make a poll? This way we can see what kind of thoughts the board has that may not be participating in discussion. You can vote for as many as needed.

For further discussion - what makes it a concept album in your mind?

[Zydar]

SFAM

[Banny]

Obviously SFAM, but I also threw a vote to Octavarium too. I think that musically there is a concept throughout this album in some form or another, as well as the title track links the entire album lyrically. It may not be such a blatant concept album as SFAM, but if I was asked if I thought Octavarium was a concept album, I'd probably respond with "Yea, musically."

[Aniland]

SFAM, 6DOIT, and Octavarium to a lesser extent. Black Clouds & Silver Linings was played up to be in the way Portnoy would describe it, but I think he's wrong.

[Ħ]

1. Concept album -  rock-and-roll album with a theme
2. All of DT's albums have the theme of prog
C. All of DT's albums are concept albums

[JediKnight1969]

1. Concept album -  rock-and-roll album with a theme
2. All of DT's albums have the theme of prog
C. All of DT's albums are concept albums

As simply as 1 - 2 - C

Wait...

[RuRoRul]

SFAM is. I also voted Octavarium. Was maybe going to vote Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence but it's more that that song is like a mini concept album by itself.

People say Octavarium isn't because it's only the last track that has any links to the others, and that all the nuggets and the musical theme don't make it a concept album. I'd have to disagree with that - it's maybe not the same thing as something like SFAM, but I don't see how what they've put into Octavarium is less of a concept than just writing a bunch of music and then saying "Let's make all the lyrics about the same thing" which is what plenty of other concept albums are. It's maybe more subtle, and it's more creative in my mind, but it's still more of a connection than plenty of albums people are comfortable with calling concept albums.

Black Clouds And Silver Linings as a whole does have that kind of theme, but to be honest that's just an appropriate title and doesn't make something a concept album.

[Jaffa]

I have no idea.  The concept of concept albums confuses the hell out of me. 

I voted for SFAM (because THAT much is pretty obvious).

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

THIS THRED

[JediKnight1969]

Come on people!

SFAM is the only one! As operation mindcrime, The wall, The brave, all Ayreon records (except "Actual fantasy")...

If any of you think any other DT album is conceptual, then please explain the "concepts"

[ariich]

SFAM, 6DOIT, and Octavarium to a lesser extent. Black Clouds & Silver Linings was played up to be in the way Portnoy would describe it, but I think he's wrong.

Portnoy never described it as such, he just talked about the reasoning behind the album title and a few fanboys went "OMG CONCEPT ALBUM".

I also cannot see how SDOIT is in any way a concept album. The two discs have nothing whatsoever to do with each other.

Octavarium I can understand why some people might consider it one because of all the musical links, but I don't agree.

SFAM is the only actual concept album.

[tri.ad]

SFAM, and only that.

[bosk1]

Concept albums:  There are only two that qualify - Awake and Scenes.

Conceptual/theme albums:  Octavarium definitely.  Probably Six Degrees and/or Black Clouds.

[JPX]

I thought we weren't allowed to talk about this?!

[bosk1]

Why not?  I just said we aren't allowed to derail a thread that is on a completely different topic (which is what the forum rules say).

[Ultimetalhead]

SFAM for obvious reasons.

Octavarium isn't a concept album on a lyrical level, but musically there's tons of references and overarching themes. Since the definition of a concept album includes musical OR (not and) lyrical connections, I don't see how it's not one.

Six Degrees, I have some reasoning about. The whole album deals with this so-called "inner turbulence". One can argue that it was called that for poetic reasons, but if the extent of the title was for the track it's named after, I wonder why they didn't just call it Six Degrees of Mental Illness. The Glass Prison deals with alcoholism, Blind Faith deals with religion, Misunderstood deals with being an outcast, The Great Debate is about the internal struggle to "pick a side" (the song never does), and Disappear is about losing loved ones. Then, you've got the title track which deals with mental illnesses.

With this in mind, 6th album, six tracks, and the 6th track has 6 topics.

666 = Satan

Six Degrees is about the devil.

[Dream Team]

Wow, every album has received at least one vote. Assuming that's not a troll job, the logical conclusion is that every album ever recorded is a concept album in one way or another  .

[Jaffa]

With this in mind, 6th album, six tracks, and the 6th track has 6 topics.

666 = Satan

Six Degrees is about the devil.

Lol.

[bosk1]

Six Degrees, I have some reasoning about. The whole album deals with this so-called "inner turbulence". One can argue that it was called that for poetic reasons, but if the extent of the title was for the track it's named after, I wonder why they didn't just call it Six Degrees of Mental Illness.

I don't disagree with your point at all.  But in terms of the last sentence, I think the title definitely was chosen for poetic reasons.  It is a word play on Six Degrees of Separation.  And Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence is simultaneously vague and full of imagery.  It is perhaps the best, most genius  album title they have every come up with.

[bosk1]

troll job

You just got your answer.

[kennedymichael]

Concept albums:  There are only two that qualify - Awake and Scenes.

Not trying to disagree with you, but why do you think that Awake is a concept album?

[bosk1]

Not trying to disagree with you, but why do you think that Awake is a concept album?

  Obviously, because it tells the story of Peter Parker/Spiderman throughout each of its 11 tracks.  Where have you been?

[Jaffa]

Not trying to disagree with you, but why do you think that Awake is a concept album?

 Obviously, because it tells the story of Peter Parker/Spiderman throughout each of its 11 tracks.  Where have you been?

... Either lol, or I REALLY need to find a store which has this album in stock.

[The Silent Cody]

A Change Of Seasons, because it's one song... 
SFAM, no doubt it is a concept album, it has a story and it is sang from person view...
Octavarium, because even on cover are some aspects of 8....

[tgstk2]

Sfam only

[Jamesman42]

SFAM as a whole, only one I voted for.

8VM is to a lesser extent.
SDOIT could be, if analyzed in the right way.

[Perpetual Change]

Concept albums:  There are only two that qualify - Awake and Scenes.

Conceptual/theme albums:  Octavarium definitely.  Probably Six Degrees and/or Black Clouds.

That category isn't real, and I still lol when I hear it because I've never heard it used anywhere else. 

Other than that, though, I agree with bosk and others who are saying that Scenes from a Memory is the only one. Awhile ago, some of the moderators here "defined" a concept album as "an album that follows a storyline," and while that definition is wrong, none of the other Dream Theater albums include musical or thematic elements strong or pervasive enough to consider it a "concept" record. Like, what's Octavarium's concept? 5/8s? What about Train of Thought? The fact that it's heavy? What concept is Falling into Infinity based on? The concept of the guys wanting to make more diverse and commercially acceptable music?

After awhile, the debate just gets silly. All I have to say about it, in sum, is: The forum definitions are wrong, a concept record is a record with strong and pervasive musical and extramusical thematic elements, Scenes from a Memory is a concept record, and the other albums aren't.

[MetropolisxPt1]

Not trying to disagree with you, but why do you think that Awake is a concept album?

  Obviously, because it tells the story of Peter Parker/Spiderman throughout each of its 11 tracks.  Where have you been?

Easily best thread ever posted on this forum.

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

SFaM.

[ariich]

Concept albums:  There are only two that qualify - Awake and Scenes.

Conceptual/theme albums:  Octavarium definitely.  Probably Six Degrees and/or Black Clouds.

That category isn't real, and I still lol when I hear it because I've never heard it used anywhere else.  

Wut. I've seen it loads, and I can assure you it is definitely real. You don't have to use it, of course.

And when we made the forum definitions, we specifically pointed out that we weren't saying "This is the only correct way of seeing it", but they exist to clarify what people say in discussions, so that we don't end up with people derailing threads with pointless discussions over it, like in the Speculations thread.

Unfortunately, people seem to ignore them, but I figure I'll post the link up: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=6251.0

[Raoul Sanchez]

SFAM  is the only "rock opera" Concept album they have, but a concept album doesn't just have to tell a story. Look at pretty much every Dredg album for example, a concept album is just an album connected by an overlaying theme, and if you ask me Octavarium fits.

[JediKnight1969]

SFAM  is the only "rock opera" Concept album they have, but a concept album doesn't just have to tell a story. Look at pretty much every Dredg album for example, a concept album is just an album connected by an overlaying theme, and if you ask me Octavarium fits.

SFAM is not a rock opera. Just conceptual.

Ayreon's "Into the electric castle" is a concept album and a rock opera. In fact a brilliant one.

[Jirpo]

1. Concept album -  rock-and-roll album with a theme
2. All of DT's albums have the theme of prog
C. All of DT's albums are concept albums

As simply as 1 - 2 - C

Wait...

[Perpetual Change]

Concept albums:  There are only two that qualify - Awake and Scenes.

Conceptual/theme albums:  Octavarium definitely.  Probably Six Degrees and/or Black Clouds.

That category isn't real, and I still lol when I hear it because I've never heard it used anywhere else.  

Wut. I've seen it loads, and I can assure you it is definitely real. You don't have to use it, of course.

And when we made the forum definitions, we specifically pointed out that we weren't saying "This is the only correct way of seeing it", but they exist to clarify what people say in discussions, so that we don't end up with people derailing threads with pointless discussions over it, like in the Speculations thread.

Unfortunately, people seem to ignore them, but I figure I'll post the link up: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=6251.0

I know all about the forum definitions  I know we're supposed to follow them, but I'm assuming since this thread is here we can at least voice that we think they're wrong?

Also, where have you ever seen anyone distinguish between a "thematic" and "conceptual" record. I've seen plenty places define "concept record" as way different than this forum here has, but I've never seen anyone actually use those terms outside of DTF.

[hefdaddy42]

SFAM, 6DOIT, and Octavarium to a lesser extent. Black Clouds & Silver Linings was played up to be in the way Portnoy would describe it, but I think he's wrong.

Portnoy never described it as such, he just talked about the reasoning behind the album title and a few fanboys went "OMG CONCEPT ALBUM".

I also cannot see how SDOIT is in any way a concept album. The two discs have nothing whatsoever to do with each other.

Octavarium I can understand why some people might consider it one because of all the musical links, but I don't agree.

SFAM is the only actual concept album.

All of this, and Awake.