A thought about JM lyrics....

[SnakeEyes]

Unfortunately a lot of people feel they need someone to blame, and MP is the easy target.

I think it's because Portnoy is the only one who actually spoke about it.  I don't remember ever reading JP or Labrie or anyone else talking about this rule, but I could be wrong.  It just seems like it was a Portnoy-led rule and the other guys just went along with it, for whatever reason.  

[Jaffa]

I'm personally pretty curious to hear JM lyrics, regardless of whether or not he's been inhibited in the past by this 'rule' of theirs.  Learning to Live and Fatal Tragedy are both pretty awesome songs.  And maybe they didn't succeed solely based on JM's lyrics, but I'd say at the very least, JM's lyrics are conducive to good songwriting.

JM's lyrics on DT11:

I can't control my shakes, how the hell did I get here?
Something about this, so very wrong
I have to laugh out loud, I wish I didn't like this
Is it a dream or a memory?

I felt the hate rise up in me
Kneel down and clear the stone of leaves
I wander around where you can't see
Inside my shell, I wait and bleed

I didn't know JM wrote Slipknot songs from 12 years ago...

[WildeSilas]

1. I'm not that easily confused (unless smn is being confusing)
2. I'm majoring in English so I shouldn't get confused easily:) (however, I've never heard about "the pocket" in this sense until now so I was just curious as to what it refers to
3. Thank you for an extremely elaborate explanation
4. I'd like just to check if I got things right:
- so, the pocket basically refers to playing a pattern that is slightly irregular with respect to expected/usual/normal beats but still staying in whichever meter is being played? More specifically, it doesn't refer to odd time signatures but to an another level of "oddness". In other words, playing in the pocket is doing irregular beats in 4/4 but also playing irregular beats even for an odd time signature like 5/8. Conclusively, playing in the pocket means irregular beats regardless of the time signature.

If this is so, I don't see this happening in all DT's songs all the time, meaning, MP doesn't always play "in the pocket". Am I right or am I right? And this would mean that JM was referring to a broader aspect of playing "in the pocket" (the one happening all the time) which again escapes me


I hope I got it right and I'm sorry for such an extensive off topic. (still, I don't think it deserves its own thread)

Sorry for being so off-topic here. Should we start another thread or something?

I think you may be confusing "irregular" beats with playing "behind the beat." An irregular beat in a 4/4 measure may for instance, mean playing the snare on the "and" of 2 (1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and...) and 4 (between the beats). The pocket really has nothing to do with the actual rhythm or notes played, but rather with lagging the the actual impact with the snare just slightly enough to produce an almost lazy, grooving feel, rather than a spot-on, every-hit-exactly-on-the-beat preciseness. Gah, it's easier to show than to explain. Playing exactly in the "middle" of the beat, dead on the timing of the beat, tends to produce a mechanical feel - all I can think of by way of example is Fear Factory or Messuggah (there are probably better ones). Funk music particularly "lags" the snare drum even a little more to help produce a laid-back groove. Some drummers do this naturally, others can produce it on demand. Both MP and MM can turn it on and off like a switch. I can't think of an instance where MP hasn't played in the pocket, so I assume this is his natural approach. I've heard MM turn it off a few times when playing with Vai, but most of the time, he's very in the pocket.

So it's not so much what is played, but more how it is played. Does it make your head bob, have a groovy feel to it? The drummer is most likely playing in the pocket. If it sounds mechanical and soulless, chances are they're not.

[iamtheeviltwin]

Unfortunately a lot of people feel they need someone to blame, and MP is the easy target.

I think it's because Portnoy is the only one who actually spoke about it.  I don't remember ever reading JP or Labrie or anyone else talking about this rule, but I could be wrong.  It just seems like it was a Portnoy-led rule and the other guys just went along with it, for whatever reason.  

Not just spoke about it, for good or bad MP was the de-facto band leader for many years.  Whether you like the bands direction or not over the past few albums, they seem to have reflected the interests of MP during their recording.  The album recording and writing process that he seemed to favor almost demanded a well fleshed out idea both lyrically and musically in order to meet the in studio demands.  At some point it appears that JMX no longer felt comfortable contributing lyrically to the band as the "bring a full idea rule" became the norm.

Granted this is all speculation because we as fans are not truly inside the process, but there are few bands that I can think of that have as much "behind the scenes" record as DT.  A big part of that was MP and his leadership of the band.  It seems quite natural therefore to lay something that is seen as a negative change upon the person who is taking the mantle of leadership.

In the long run MP may end up being the scapegoat for the perceived "problems" with DT, but honestly by becoming the outspoken public face of the band he placed that target firmly on himself.