New Mike Mangini interview

[hefdaddy42]

You are unnecessarily pessimistic.

It's not really pessimism.  His point is right, writing music with a drummer helps you see angles you wouldn't otherwise.

I wasn't just talking about that post.

[ReaPsTA]

You are unnecessarily pessimistic.

It's not really pessimism.  His point is right, writing music with a drummer helps you see angles you wouldn't otherwise.

I wasn't just talking about that post.

Oh.  Well, in that case... yeah.

[jamhet]

I think he means that after he got the kit set up, he kind of wanted to be alone and warm up on it, but he felt a little self-conscious about doing a warmup in front of the band he was auditioning for and felt it might look unprofessional. 

Woah!
A good warmup is the most professional thing in the world. You can tell the quality of the drummer by what his warmup routine is.
Not allowing or not giving the time for the drummer to do his warmup is bad. Drumming is a tough job on your body, you can get injured playing fast, demanding stuff (or any stuff) without a warmup. I wasn't happy about this.

[bosk1]

Have you paid attention to anything that's been said above other than ripping that part out of context?

[JPX]

"The one where I put the most amount of psychotic, two-things-at-the-same-time type of drumming would be track six [still unnamed as of press time]. While multi time signature shifts were going on, I was playing in a time signature that was completely different from those with one limb on one side of my body. And I was really hitting the drums. I'm very proud of it, but they liked it musically. I wouldn't do it just to throw it in. I didn't do it for that reason. I did it because I had a mathematical joy out of it. Oh, my gosh, it would be amazing to play in 7/16 here, but yet it's changing time signatures 18 times or something."

[jamhet]

But what I say is correct regardless of the context, bösk1.
The band should've enabled and encouraged him to do everything he needed before going forward with the audition.  I agree with everything you pointed out in that comment I've quoted, but I just wanted to make the mere facts about warming up clear.  You should read my comment as having a concuring tone to yours.

[Metabog]

Meh. He's religious and puts god before his career. Interesting to see he also thinks god somehow helped him and got him the job. It's not like he trained for a lifetime and gave his absolute best to get the job.

On a more positive note, his kit is awesome.

[JPX]

I think he means that after he got the kit set up, he kind of wanted to be alone and warm up on it, but he felt a little self-conscious about doing a warmup in front of the band he was auditioning for and felt it might look unprofessional. 

Woah!
A good warmup is the most professional thing in the world. You can tell the quality of the drummer by what his warmup routine is.
Not allowing or not giving the time for the drummer to do his warmup is bad. Drumming is a tough job on your body, you can get injured playing fast, demanding stuff (or any stuff) without a warmup. I wasn't happy about this.

I agree, I mean why even have them play songs!? They should have just made their choice based on who had the best stretches.

[jamhet]

I agree, I mean why even have them play songs!? They should have just made their choice based on who had the best stretches.

This poor sarcasm doesn't contribute much to the discussion. You could've at least tried to be funny with it...

[bosk1]

But what I say is correct regardless of the context, bösk1.
The band should've enabled and encouraged him to do everything he needed before going forward with the audition.  I agree with everything you pointed out in that comment I've quoted, but I just wanted to make the mere facts about warming up clear.  

I'm sure they did, but it was just one of those moments where MM didn't know what to do next, and neither side knew what was on the other's mind, so it just went forward the way it did simply because it's an imperfect process and that just happens to be the way it went.

[jamhet]

Indeed, bösk1.

[JPX]

I agree, I mean why even have them play songs!? They should have just made their choice based on who had the best stretches.

This poor sarcasm doesn't contribute much to the discussion. You could've at least tried to be funny with it...

Why is this even a discussion? Mike got the job and everyone was subject to the same parameters so it was fair across the board.

[ariich]

But what I say is correct regardless of the context, bösk1.
The band should've enabled and encouraged him to do everything he needed before going forward with the audition.  I agree with everything you pointed out in that comment I've quoted, but I just wanted to make the mere facts about warming up clear. 

I'm sure they did, but it was just one of those moments where MM didn't know what to do next, and neither side knew what was on the other's mind, so it just went forward the way it did simply because it's an imperfect process and that just happens to be the way it went.

Plus, Mike was up first, so neither side really knew what to expect. From the documentary, it was clear that after the first couple they started with the jam as it turned out to be a good way to warm up, which they presumably hadn't initially thought of.

And jahmet, do you only listen to bands where the drummer is involved in writing the music?

[jamhet]

Mike got the job and everyone was subject to the same parameters so it was fair across the board.

Dude, who said it wasn't? Who did even mentioned the aspect of fairness? Did anybody?

And jahmet, do you only listen to bands where the drummer is involved in writing the music?

No. Does anybody?

If you've drawn a conclusion that I think that the involvement of the drummer is neccessary to facilitate composing in any band and in any genre of music, then you clearly haven't even tried to understand what I've said. ;/

We're talking about a particular band, operating in a particular genre of music, aren't we?
We're talking about DT, not some any other band; not a blues band, a rock band, a pop band, where the drums just add a generic beat.

We're talking about a band playing a highly rhythmically complex music, which you don't compose by putting it into a consistent framework of a 4/4 metre, but you begin from building that very framework from the scratch.
Taking the instrument that will constitute that framwork out of the creative process....  man.

I've already given a good example. Either you question it or you don't. Do you?

[skydivingninja]

Man I didn't know blues and rock drummers who aren't in Dream Theater were so uncreative. 

[Jamesman42]

I'm pretty sure that MM is still writing his own parts for the most part...he is just not writing the songs themselves. He is letting the rest of the guys be the songwriters, and then he comes in. I think the interview confirms that, actually.

[jamhet]

Man I didn't know blues and rock drummers who aren't in Dream Theater were so uncreative. 

1. You fail at comprehensive reading.
2. Show me a blues song/group/artist where the drummer is expected to come up with something like a 5:6 polyrhythmic ostinato, which would obviously totaly render the music which it is added to.

How much time do I need to give you to find an example?

[ReaPsTA]

Man I didn't know blues and rock drummers who aren't in Dream Theater were so uncreative. 

1. You fail at comprehensive reading.
2. Show me a blues song/group/artist where the drummer is expected to come up with something like a 5:6 polyrhythmic ostinato, which would obviously totaly render the music which it is added to.

How much time do I need to give you to find an example?

You're throwing a lot of insults/demands at guys who've been here a while for someone with 53 posts.

[skydivingninja]

Man I didn't know blues and rock drummers who aren't in Dream Theater were so uncreative.  

1. You fail at comprehensive reading.
2. Show me a blues song/group/artist where the drummer is expected to come up with something like a 5:6 polyrhythmic ostinato, which would obviously totaly render the music which it is added to.

I don't know what the fuck that means, nor do I care.  I'm a bass player, not a musician.  

Besides, as James just pointed out, MM isn't completely out of the creative process.  He wrote drum parts.  He just didn't write riffs and stuff.  So they didn't write WITH him, I guess, but I think MM's going to try his hardest to write the best parts he can.  

EDIT: Reap, I was thinking the same thing. 

[Orion1967]

Meh. He's religious and puts god before his career. Interesting to see he also thinks god somehow helped him and got him the job. It's not like he trained for a lifetime and gave his absolute best to get the job.

On a more positive note, his kit is awesome.

I always find it amusing the things that people key in on.  Out of everything that was said, you choose to belittle his faith.  I am sorry for you.

[King Postwhore]

We're talking about a particular band, operating in a particular genre of music, aren't we?
We're talking about DT, not some any other band; not a blues band, a rock band, a pop band, where the drums just add a generic beat.

We're talking about a band playing a highly rhythmically complex music, which you don't compose by putting it into a consistent framework of a 4/4 metre, but you begin from building that very framework from the scratch.
Taking the instrument that will constitute that framwork out of the creative process....  man.

Well it's obvious you have a very limited and linear reality of what music is, since you think that all blues, rock & pop drum beats are generic.

[jamhet]

Well it's obvious you have a very limited and linear reality of what music is, since you think that all blues, rock & pop drum beats are generic.

If you put a "=" sign between DT's beats and the nature of rhythms they use and the blues/pop/rock beats, then I would kindly ask you to elaborate upon that claim.

[King Postwhore]

Well it's obvious you have a very limited and linear reality of what music is, since you think that all blues, rock & pop drum beats are generic.

If you put a "=" sign between DT's beats and the nature of rhythms they use and the blues/pop/rock beats, then I would kindly ask you to elaborate upon that claim.

I'm saying that you dismiss simple beats as poor.  Sometimes that's the simple thing in DT songs or other bands is a great emotional tool for a musician.  Everything doesn't have to be in odd time signatures.

[emindead]

@bösk1's response to my post: Thanks, I think that makes a lot of sense.

[jamhet]

I'm saying that you dismiss simple beats as poor. 

No, I don't.
I dismiss simple beats as non-complex. Does this make sense?

Sometimes that's the simple thing in DT songs or other bands is a great emotional tool for a musician. 

Yes.

Everything doesn't have to be in odd time signatures.

Yes.
But since I address odd time signatures in particular, this is irrelevant.

You see, you think you oppose me on issues where our opinions aren't even contradicting each other, issues that are not being discussed.

[Orion1967]

I'm saying that you dismiss simple beats as poor. 

No, I don't.
I dismiss simple beats as non-complex. Does this make sense?

Sometimes that's the simple thing in DT songs or other bands is a great emotional tool for a musician. 

Yes.

Everything doesn't have to be in odd time signatures.

Yes.
But since I address odd time signatures in particular, this is irrelevant.

You see, you think you oppose me on issues where our opinions aren't even contradicting each other, issues that are not being discussed.

I take it you are a percussionist? 
(not inflammatory, just curious)

[ariich]

If you've drawn a conclusion that I think that the involvement of the drummer is neccessary to facilitate composing in any band and in any genre of music, then you clearly haven't even tried to understand what I've said. ;/

We're talking about a particular band, operating in a particular genre of music, aren't we?
We're talking about DT, not some any other band; not a blues band, a rock band, a pop band, where the drums just add a generic beat.

We're talking about a band playing a highly rhythmically complex music, which you don't compose by putting it into a consistent framework of a 4/4 metre, but you begin from building that very framework from the scratch.
Taking the instrument that will constitute that framwork out of the creative process....  man.

I've already given a good example. Either you question it or you don't. Do you?

So on one hand, you say that you want DT to change things up more.

But then on the other you say that DT and their style of music should involve the drummer in the composition, and therefore they shouldn't change that.

Yeah, that totally makes sense.

[King Postwhore]

Dear god you are condescending jamhet.

[Mladen]

I actually think Jamhet has some good points there, but:

I'm pretty sure that MM is still writing his own parts for the most part...he is just not writing the songs themselves. He is letting the rest of the guys be the songwriters, and then he comes in. I think the interview confirms that, actually.

This.

[Dream Team]

I'm pretty sure that MM is still writing his own parts for the most part...he is just not writing the songs themselves. He is letting the rest of the guys be the songwriters, and then he comes in. I think the interview confirms that, actually.

Exactly. For all we know, MM has 0 song-writing talent or experience.

[userx]

i see people are starting arguments based on things they themselves declared as facts when in fact they are not and mean nothing.

there is no reason why a complex composition would be any lower in quality if a drummer was not a part of its writing process

[Dream Team]

i see people are starting arguments based on things they themselves declared as facts when in fact they are not and mean nothing.

there is no reason why a complex composition would be any lower in quality if a drummer was not a part of its writing process

Good luck explaining that to our new favorite poster.

[russellmania]

I'd be shocked if during the tracking process there wasn't some instance where Petrucci or someone might have changed an arrangement based on Mangini's input.  They tracked the songs in-studio together, no?  I'm sure some things probably changed based on his input between when Mangini originally came up with the drum parts and when they tracked them for the record.

Also, if all 5 guys are happy with their current creative process then who the hell is anyone here to complain or criticize it?

[jamhet]

I take it you are a percussionist? 
(not inflammatory, just curious)

Yes I'm a clasiccaly trained percussionist. Currently a guitarist and a drummer.

So on one hand, you say that you want DT to change things up more.

Yes.

But then on the other you say that DT and their style of music should involve the drummer in the composition, and therefore they shouldn't change that.

Yes.  

Where doesn't it make sense for you again?

Dear god you are condescending jamhet.

I'm sorry if I sound like that. Have my word that I'm definitely not trying to.

I think I'm giving the most explanatory, and subtance based arguments one could possibly think of trying to bring one's point across, and I put the effort to formulate them in the most unambiguous way I'm able to.
I don't think that is condescending, given the fact that in turn I get people nitpicking on catchphrases they take out of context.

I'm pretty sure that MM is still writing his own parts for the most part...he is just not writing the songs themselves. He is letting the rest of the guys be the songwriters, and then he comes in. I think the interview confirms that, actually.

Exactly. For all we know, MM has 0 song-writing talent or experience.

To Jamesman:
Yes, the interview totally confirmes it.
But you gotta wonder, how this came about: Did the other members not invite him to the writing process or did MM himself said he doesn't need to be there?
What do you guys think?

To Dream Team:
Before the ironic remarks get out of hand: MM most probably has tonnes of writing talent.

there is no reason why a complex composition would be any lower in quality if a drummer was not a part of its writing process

Good luck explaining that to our new favorite poster.

Sorry guys, but I gave a concrete example of why I think the way I think here:
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=22811.msg873417#msg873417
If you disagree, then you are welcome to refute it. Please do.

[unklejman]

But the important thing here is that we now know that there are at least six tracks on the new Dream Theater album.