Will MP still come back?

[Dream Team]

There simply isn't a vacant drummer position in the band, which is something that is necessary to have him come back.  What leads you to believe the drummer chair will be vacant in 5-7 years?

Mangina is already 48 years old, and has had some injuries. You never know what comes down the road. And Porntoy is always 4 years younger than him.

Old joke is old. VERY old.

[ReaPsTA]

Mangina is already 48 years old, and has had some injuries. You never know what comes down the road. And Porntoy is always 4 years younger than him.

Seriously, I know that's not a typo, so what gives?  What do you have against the guy?

[bosk1]

And you've already been specifically warned about this.  I don't know how to make it any more clear:  continue doing that and you will be banned from this forum.

[jamhet]

And you've already been specifically warned about this.  I don't know how to make it any more clear:  continue doing that and you will be banned from this forum.

Oh. Where? Sorry, I haven't seen that warning, I didn't know.
But I'm surprised that anybody cares.

[King Postwhore]

And you've already been specifically warned about this.  I don't know how to make it any more clear:  continue doing that and you will be banned from this forum.

Oh. Where? Sorry, I haven't seen that warning, I didn't know.
But I'm surprised that anybody cares.

Boy do you miss the point.

[ReaPsTA]

Oh. Where? Sorry, I haven't seen that warning, I didn't know.
But I'm surprised that anybody cares.

Really?  This isn't obvious to you?  Mangini's been almost universally embraced by fans of the band as a great drummer and person.  And it's not even like you're making valid criticisms, which is fine because we bitch about everything on this forum.  But you're just being insulting.

[jamhet]

Hold your horses, guys. That's just a little, stupid play on words. It isn't an elaborate synthesis comparing an adult man to female genitalia. Come on!

Some of you sure like to feel offended in the name of others...

[Orion1967]

I didnt realize there were so many MP haters

Not an issue of being a MP hater... its more an issue based upon strong feeligns about the post I would think.  I admire the hell out of MP but after seeing MM, I think that he is/will be more true to what DT is all about than MP.  
MP is a phenominal mujsician and I truly hope that he finds whatever it is that he is looking for but the facts are the facts.  

MP made a very stupid (imho) judgement call and like a lot of decisions that are in life, it was one with a permanant set of consequences.  The main ones there being that the remaining bandmembers actually replaced him with someone of at a minimum, equal level talent that can play all of the MP drum parts perfectly and also has the benefit of wanting to be a part of DT with every fiber of his being.

Additionally as many folks have said before me, his offer of return to the band came after he was told "thanks bu no thanks" by A7x. That makes his offer really cheezy in my opinion as was evidenced by the DT reply coming from their lawyers (according to MP's own words).  So while I think there were certainly hurt feelings by the whole event, they guys in the band traded up based upon their needs as a group.

[jamhet]

I admire the hell out of MP but after seeing MM, I think that he is/will be more true to what DT is all about than MP.

Hmmm, well... what do you mean exactly?

MM's situation is so much simpler - he's just there to play drums, express himself artistically. Whereas MP had so much responsibilites, so much other work within the band, he was the face of the band, and whatever the outside environment (fans, media, critics) wasn't fond of, he had to be the one to turn the other cheek. This, I think, to some extent compromised the way in which some fans perceived him as a musician, and perhaps lessened the appreciation for him as a musician.

[Dream Team]

Hold your horses, guys. That's just a little, stupid play on words. It isn't an elaborate synthesis comparing an adult man to female genitalia. Come on!

Some of you sure like to feel offended in the name of others...

So you wouldn't care if we all starting referring to you as "clamhead" instead of "jamhet"?

[King Postwhore]

Maybe MP was so involved in all the other aspects of DT and other side project his musical input was weakened where MM solely works on the drums with better results them what MP did of late.  Maybe!

[ShadowWalker]

Maybe MP was so involved in all the other aspects of DT and other side project his musical input was weakened ...snip...

Bingo. This has been my perspective. When I would listen to his work on Neal Morse's Christian albums, I would wonder why his drumming sounded so much better than what he did in Dream Theater and I have always theorized that for Morse, all he needed to be was a drummer and not worry about anything else but being a drummer and that made him much more creative. Same for TA. Same for A7X. Being so intimately wrapped up in every aspect of DT caused him to ultimately lose focus on the key thing he needed to be in DT - the drummer.

[Dublagent66]

Hold your horses, guys. That's just a little, stupid play on words. It isn't an elaborate synthesis comparing an adult man to female genitalia. Come on!

Some of you sure like to feel offended in the name of others...

Well, at least you got that part right.  As far as being offended well, that's probably a small part of it, but it's mostly about the integrity of the forum.

[jamhet]

So you wouldn't care if we all starting referring to you as "clamhead" instead of "jamhet"?

Not at all Especially if I were earning millions of dollars and not spending a single second of my life on this forum, heh.

When I would listen to his work on Neal Morse's Christian albums, I would wonder why his drumming sounded so much better than what he did in Dream Theater and I have always theorized that for Morse, all he needed to be was a drummer and not worry about anything else but being a drummer and that made him much more creative.

There is one hole in this thinking:
Even when Mike Portnoy worked with Morse (or whomever else for that matter), he was still DT's captain, and still had all those things on his shoulders. He still had the same number of E-mails and phone calls to answer, regardless of whom he was at a given time in the studio with. DT's management, promoters, sponsors, stuff etc. wouldn't suddenly disappear.

So I think it all comes down to MP being burned out in the whole DT situation, just as he explained to the whole world after his departure.

[Knguro]

this is what i think, MP wanted a break for 5 years or so, just to "recharge DT batteries", but actually for all that we could see, it was more like recharge HIS batteries from DT, he didnt want to quit touring and drumming, it is a fact, AX7 tour is more than clear on that aspect, DT had the same wish to keep going, so he left because of HIS  WILL, I´m 1000000% sure that he NEVER expected all this positive wave at this point. DT has break free, from all of his ideas of how he wanted the band to be, or how he wanted to manage the band. if on the last CDs the band were going donwhill with him in the band, and now that is climbing up, is not because of his sacrifice, is because all this fresh ideas post portnoy are hopeful. Dont take me wrong, he is an amazing musician, and probably nows the industry of music more than anybody, and i admire him, buuuuuut he fucked it up big time for him. My point is, he can not ask for any credit about how good DT is doing now. Still my humble and useless opinion here. dont get mad at me.

[Nekov]

this is what i think, MP wanted a break for 5 years or so, just to "recharge DT batteries", but actually for all that we could see, it was more like recharge HIS batteries from DT, he didnt want to quit touring and drumming, it is a fact, AX7 tour is more than clear on that aspect, DT had the same wish to keep going, so he left because of HIS  WILL, I´m 1000000% sure that he NEVER expected all this positive wave at this point. DT has break free, from all of his ideas of how he wanted the band to be, or how he wanted to manage the band. if on the last CDs the band were going donwhill with him in the band, and now that is climbing up, is not because of his sacrifice, is because all this fresh ideas post portnoy are hopeful. Dont take me wrong, he is an amazing musician, and probably nows the industry of music more than anybody, and i admire him, buuuuuut he fucked it up big time for him. My point is, he can not ask for any credit about how good DT is doing now. Still my humble and useless opinion here. dont get mad at me.

We don't know yet how good the new ideas are because we have listened to very little if any from the auditions. I say we should wait to hear the new CD before judging.
And let's say the new CD totally rocks, great for DT. That is what MP wanted when he took his decission.

[SystematicThought]

MP posted in that drummer thread on his forum. It was pretty interesting to read his response to a post.

[The Hiryuu]

Mangina, Mangina, Mangina, Mangina, Mangina.

Wow, you guys are ridiculous. Fucking lighten the fuck up. The guy's an awesome drummer, with a name that just so happens to be one letter off from an amusing word.

[tri.ad]

Fucking lighten the fuck up.

Nope.

[Bertielee]

Mangina, Mangina, Mangina, Mangina, Mangina.

Wow, you guys are ridiculous. Fucking lighten the fuck up.

Did you read forum rules before posting this? If not, you'd better do it.

B.Lee

[hefdaddy42]

Mangina, Mangina, Mangina, Mangina, Mangina.

Wow, you guys are ridiculous. Fucking lighten the fuck up. The guy's an awesome drummer, with a name that just so happens to be one letter off from an amusing word.

Ordinarily you would get a warning, but since the issue has already been addressed in this thread, enjoy a week's vacation for violating rule 12.

12. Insults or senseless bashing of the band members of Dream Theater and/or their music will not be tolerated.  Honest, open critique is always allowed, provided it does not cross the line and become bashing, belittling, etc.

[Bill Carson]

MP posted in that drummer thread on his forum. It was pretty interesting to read his response to a post.

Ok guys we've all missed a very important post from SystematicThought, here's the post from MP's forum with MPs response below.
Its the first reaction i've heard from him regarding the current situation with DT;


Moog

I hope I don't come off sounding disrespectful to MP, but I have a couple observations about the recent happenings in DT land.  Hope my opinion isn't insulting.  

I'm a big fan of DT, but not much of their recent stuff.  The Count of Tuscany is one of my favorite songs they've ever done.  Kudos to the band for this epic song.  I love every song on every album (sans Falling into Infinity) up to Train of Thought.  After that CD, there were scattered highlights on each CD for me.  Dream Theater didn't have the same fire and the CD's just weren't gelling.  I'm not sure why, but maybe I wasn't alone?  I know MP looks at each CD as his baby and probably loves every single thing they've ever done.  Dream Theater became a pattern of a CD full of decent songs and a few good ones.  Maybe.....(and please take this lightly) - Mike felt the same way.  I don't know how he felt, but maybe he thought things needed a kick in the ass?  I sure felt this way - from a fan.  

I think MP was just trying to make the band better when he wanted a break.  Maybe things were on auto pilot.  Make a record, tour, make a record, tour, etc....  The recent albums certainly didn't have the hunger and the level of Dream Theater songs portrayed in Scenes from a Memory or Awake - to me.  It feels like they have that level of passion right now.  Like every member has a new vigor and swagger about creating new music.  All of this because Mike is not in the band and they have the exact sense of appreciation for their craft they did when they were making Images and Words.  Dream Theater is alive again - and it seems at Mike Portnoy's expense.  I haven't heard the new CD and I might be a fool, but I think the band is completely recharged and ready to conquer the world again.  Isn't that what MP wanted all along?  It's like he fell on a grenade to protect his troops.  He saved the one thing he loves the most in the world and now he can't be a part of it anymore.  It's ironic because Dream Theater is right now where Mike wanted them to be, but it took his departure to get them to that point.  

Again - I'm not stating facts, but just making my own observations.  In the end, I'm sure this will be a Genesis/Peter Gabriel type of split.  We'll get great music from Mike and Dream Theater. Kudos to Mike for handling all the press and what must be very hurtful information on blogs and even his own website.  It's refreshing to see Mangini so appreciative of Mike's tenure in the  band.  

I'm looking forward to great music from both DT and Mike Portnoy, but I think Mike Portnoy deserves a ton of credit for kicking Dream Theater in the ass and being the best they can possibly be.  


VERY well said....VERY true...and a big reason why this is all VERY painful and heartbreaking for me to standby and watch....(I even eluded to this in my Classic Rock/PROG interview)...
 
...and with that, I shall return to lurking and keeping my mouth shut as to not say the wrong thing or be misinterpretted throughout this whole thing...
 
But indeed a VERY astute observation Moog!
MP  

[Raoul Sanchez]

No one missed this, it's been discussed over the last page or so (well that and "funny" word play on Mangini's name).

[Demolition]

Mangina, Mangina, Mangina, Mangina, Mangina.

Wow, you guys are ridiculous. Fucking lighten the fuck up. The guy's an awesome drummer, with a name that just so happens to be one letter off from an amusing word.

I think that's stretching it a bit.  Mangini is more like 3 letters not 1.  Get real.

[Bill Carson]

See what happens when you go to the last page of a thread instead of reading the whole thing !
I feel stupid now 

[King Postwhore]

I love Mike, but there are better ways to invigorate the band like different writing partners, record in a way they've never done before, try recording in a studio you've never worked in and a big on, try a producer to spark some new energy by pushing the band.  He just miscalculated the other guys.

[hefdaddy42]

I love Mike, but there are better ways to invigorate the band like different writing partners, record in a way they've never done before, try recording in a studio you've never worked in and a big on, try a producer to spark some new energy by pushing the band.  He just miscalculated the other guys.

I agree.

[ZirconBlue]

I love Mike, but there are better ways to invigorate the band like different writing partners, record in a way they've never done before, try recording in a studio you've never worked in and a big on, try a producer to spark some new energy by pushing the band.  He just miscalculated the other guys.

I thought he said that the problem was not with the music, but with the band's interpersonal relationships?  Of course, I'm not sure how you fix a relationship by splitting up for a few years. . . .

[King Postwhore]

I love Mike, but there are better ways to invigorate the band like different writing partners, record in a way they've never done before, try recording in a studio you've never worked in and a big on, try a producer to spark some new energy by pushing the band.  He just miscalculated the other guys.

I thought he said that the problem was not with the music, but with the band's interpersonal relationships?  Of course, I'm not sure how you fix a relationship by splitting up for a few years. . . .

Pardon the old memory but he originally said that many things musically was stale but It was weird that the other 4 didn't feel that way.  I tend to think that his outside project seemed so fresh that they soured him on DT.  Yet, we here JMX talk about going back to an old way of writing together.  Mabye it was Mike holding things back concerning DT.

[wkiml]

And you've already been specifically warned about this.  I don't know how to make it any more clear:  continue doing that and you will be banned from this forum.

Oh. Where? Sorry, I haven't seen that warning, I didn't know.
But I'm surprised that anybody cares.

Did Mike care about the fans when he made is decision ?  NO

So why should I give a shit if he wants to come back now...as far as I am concerned I think DT is in a much better place without him

[Tick]

And you've already been specifically warned about this.  I don't know how to make it any more clear:  continue doing that and you will be banned from this forum.

Oh. Where? Sorry, I haven't seen that warning, I didn't know.
But I'm surprised that anybody cares.

Did Mike care about the fans when he made is decision ?  NO

So why should I give a shit if he wants to come back now...as far as I am concerned I think DT is in a much better place without him

Honestly, I don't think should put the fans first when making decisions regarding his life and future. He has been about as fan friendly accessible as any musician, ever.
I think he was burned out and found the whole thing stale. He needed a break to do other things. They said no, he didn't like it, and now he gets to pursue a new direction in his career, like it or not.
He is probably bitter, but sometimes you can't have your cake and eat it to when their are others involved.
Guys in there mid 40's or 50's don't take a few years off when the clock is ticking.
Dream Theater is not the Rolling Stones, they need to work to make a living. They want to retire someday comfortably.
I think even two years off could have chopped the fan base in half.

The bottom line in all my rambling is this...
Mike owed nothing to the fans. He should follow his desires after 25 years in the same band.
He is now out and its probably permanent.
I think creativity wise he will be very happy doing other things. Paycheck wise, not so happy.

[phentalmyst]

Pardon the old memory but he originally said that many things musically was stale but It was weird that the other 4 didn't feel that way. 

it's confusing how the story *SEEMS* to change from one MP response to another. he implies it was musical in the MP/Moog comment, then he says it was a staleness in the relationships within the band that lead to him leaving and even says it wasn't musically related in the Classic Rock interview. i don't know what to think...

[WildeSilas]

I love Mike, but there are better ways to invigorate the band like different writing partners, record in a way they've never done before, try recording in a studio you've never worked in and a big on, try a producer to spark some new energy by pushing the band.  He just miscalculated the other guys.

This, this, this.

C'mon, let's all be honest. Ever since Octavarium (and maybe even ToT for some people), both critics and fans have expressed growing concern that the quality of albums have been diminishing. There has also been growing concern, albeit usually in the form of jokes, that Mike was asserting more and more control over the band. It's impossible for me to believe these two things are not closely related. Everything from JMX not feeling welcome in the writing process, JLB seeming to feel a bit pushed out for not bringing "completed" lyrics or melodies into the studio, no outside producers, etc. Any collective (and I would argue, individual) endeavor benefits from collaboration and occasional outside objectivity. DT has had none of this in years. I suspect that Mike, being in the middle of the whole thing, may have had trouble realizing that his heavy-handed leadership was running a bit roughshod over the some of the other members, and shutting the band off from resources that could have kept things fresh. But Mike's personality is to do everything 150%  - which is why there have been few breaks between albums, and conversely, why he wanted to take 5 years off instead of, say, 2.

Honestly, it seems to me like Mike has been in a reactionary state since the events of FII - fighting a situation that no longer existed after the success of SFAM. Why? I think it drove the other guys to resent him a little as the dictator though they denied this for many years (probably for PR purposes).

Just my forum newbie 2 cents.

[Tick]

Sorry, but I am not of the opinion that the last few albums weren't very good, and Mike is the reason. I like the last few albums. The first DT album I ever heard was Octavarium and it was sure good enough to hook me and turn me into a die hard fan. I bought it when it first came out and within 6 months I owned every DT album.

That being said, its a new day, and its exciting to be a Dream Theater fan at this time.

[King Postwhore]

I'm the opposite of you tick.  I really liked BC&SL and thought SC was ok.