Will MP still come back?

[millahh]

Ah absolutely. I just can't imagine some of the songs from those albums not being incredible to DT fans (Octavarium, Six Degrees, In the Presence of Enemies, etc.)

I think for a good amount of people some time after 6DOIT DT switched from "excellent albums with occasional mediocre tune" to "mediocre albums with occasional excellent tune".

rumborak  

That describes me perfectly...up to and including 6DoIT, I listen to the album, but occasionally skip a tune.  Since then, I will listen to certain tunes, but never the entire album (excluding SC, which I just never listen to at all).

And I like neither Octavarium nor ItPoE.

[MasterShakezula]

Ah absolutely. I just can't imagine some of the songs from those albums not being incredible to DT fans (Octavarium, Six Degrees, In the Presence of Enemies, etc.)

I think for a good amount of people some time after 6DOIT DT switched from "excellent albums with occasional mediocre tune" to "mediocre albums with occasional excellent tune".

rumborak  

That describes me perfectly...up to and including 6DoIT, I listen to the album, but occasionally skip a tune.  Since then, I will listen to certain tunes, but never the entire album (excluding SC, which I just never listen to at all).

And I like neither Octavarium nor ItPoE.

I agree, in a sense that my overall preference for I&W, Awake, ACOS, FII, and SFAM>My overall preference for 6DoIT, TOT, 8v, SC, and BCaSL.  However I feel 8v, ITNOG, The 12 Step Suite, ITPOE, and TCOT are about at the level of the the 90s stuff.  I bet that the 10s will be > than the 00s, in terms of albums put out.  (That is, assuming the current chemistry within DT maintains is great level of positive energy and they put out the albums at a regular rate, as in 1 every 2 years)

[Rambeaux]

I think Portnoy needs to start his own (semi) permanent band. He has proven with his side-projects to be an immensely creative musician who (I am assuming) felt constrained by fan expectation while he was a member of Dream Theater.

I for one haven't enjoyed any of his side work (apart from LTE) and I feel if he keeps indulging himself in these self gratifying "projects" then he might just fade into obscurity. If they make him happy then sure, do as many as you want, but there comes a point when you have to stop serving appetizers and bring on the entree!

Well, in my opinion, Portnoy could attach himself at the hip to Neal Morse and work on every single thing that he does, and I would be ecstatic.

[orcus116]

Ah absolutely. I just can't imagine some of the songs from those albums not being incredible to DT fans (Octavarium, Six Degrees, In the Presence of Enemies, etc.)

Differing tastes, etc. Those songs you mentioned are pretty good examples of the pre-fab songwriting method the band's been sticking to, so  they'll have some great sections but overall the pieces suffer.

[scoutmasterdave]

One interesting dynamic (to me, at least), is that if something happened with Mangini, say, three albums down the line, and MP was brought back in ... would MP be able to play MM's parts?  Something tells me we're going to see some ridiculous one-handed speed-demon bits with which MP would undoubtedly struggle.  We'd probably end up with DT ignoring three albums of material live, which would suck (assuming the three are as good as we hope they will be).

[j]

^Lol, Portnoy would have to audition for his job back to prove he had the ability to play the Mangini-era stuff.

-J

[Ravenheart]

Ah absolutely. I just can't imagine some of the songs from those albums not being incredible to DT fans (Octavarium, Six Degrees, In the Presence of Enemies, etc.)

Aside from a few section of Six Degress, I can't stand any of those songs. 

[fadetoblackdude7]

Like MP said himself in the Eddie Trunk interview, he will play again with them in the future, it's inevitable. Whether it's 1 show or a full-blown tour, it'll happen, perhaps for a reunion of some sort.

But permanent member, probably not. Unless Mangini leaves in the distant future....

[Perpetual Change]

Like MP said himself in the Eddie Trunk interview, he will play again with them in the future, it's inevitable. Whether it's 1 show or a full-blown tour, it'll happen, perhaps for a reunion of some sort.

I wouldn't put too much weight on that. That interview was before things really started boiling. Since then, Portnoy's publicly called the guys out about a bunch of petty things, and everything we do know pretty much points to the fact that the relationship isn't in a good place at all now.

And honestly, if I were a band member and things seemed to be "ok" I'm not sure inviting Portnoy back for a special evening with would be a good idea. He's just got too strong a personality that, honestly, I doubt the special reunion evening would be able to occur without a far share of condescending and/or provocative remarks from Portnoy's direction, probably before, during, and after the performance.

In short, Portnoy's way too proud to play second fiddle to someone else behind the kit of "the band he started." I'd like to say the band could invite him up onstage to run through some classics and The Best of Times, but I highly doubt Portnoy's attitude would be conducive to that.

[hefdaddy42]

Like MP said himself in the Eddie Trunk interview, he will play again with them in the future, it's inevitable. Whether it's 1 show or a full-blown tour, it'll happen, perhaps for a reunion of some sort.

Frankly, it doesn't matter what MP himself said anyway, because the decision would be DT's, not MP's.

[orcus116]

It's funny how 8 months later that prediction is looking less likely, at least from the standpoint of "everyone has moved on". I could still be in the afterglow of getting a new permanent member though.

[Perpetual Change]

Like MP said himself in the Eddie Trunk interview, he will play again with them in the future, it's inevitable. Whether it's 1 show or a full-blown tour, it'll happen, perhaps for a reunion of some sort.

Frankly, it doesn't matter what MP himself said anyway, because the decision would be DT's, not MP's.

Well, JP said it too. In the PROG magazine. That was before Mike decided to publically call the band out on their ill-treatment of him, though.

[gilpdawg]

Like MP said himself in the Eddie Trunk interview, he will play again with them in the future, it's inevitable. Whether it's 1 show or a full-blown tour, it'll happen, perhaps for a reunion of some sort.

Frankly, it doesn't matter what MP himself said anyway, because the decision would be DT's, not MP's.

Well, JP said it too. In the PROG magazine. That was before Mike decided to publically call the band out on their ill-treatment of him, though.

I still think it will happen. Time heals those wounds. At some point MP will be wanting to scratch that DT itch again and I can't imagine management or whatever label they are on at that time recommending for it not to happen, especially if sales of the MM albums and shows are lower, which remains to be seen. I've heard a lot of people, not here, but other places, basically saying that DT is dead to them without MP, and I worry for their future viability as far as that goes. The hardcores will still be there, of course, but I totally see them playing smaller venues down the road, and that's not something I want to see. If that happens, you bet MP returning would be on the table if he was willing.

Just trying to look at it from a business perspective. I know someone will shout me down and say, "no mannnnn DT isn't like that" but don't kid yourself. They want to make as much money as they can, they ain't getting any younger.

[bosk1]

I'm not even really sure why this is being discussed.  Mike is out.  They have a new member (and have had for several months).  There aren't currently any drummer vacancies in DT I am aware of that would allow Mike to come back.

[KevShmev]

Like MP said himself in the Eddie Trunk interview, he will play again with them in the future, it's inevitable. Whether it's 1 show or a full-blown tour, it'll happen, perhaps for a reunion of some sort.

Portnoy also probably thought at that time that the band would never say no to him rejoining the band.

[Bone_Daddy]

I don't think so. There isn't any real reason for him to ever come back.

[LCArenas]

I think yes, but... In maybe five or seven years, after two or three albums with their respective tours. That was the hiatus he was hoping for, and Mike and DT both seem happy to not play with each other now.

[bosk1]

I think yes, but... In maybe five or seven years, after two or three albums.

But why would you even think that?  There simply isn't a vacant drummer position in the band, which is something that is necessary to have him come back.  What leads you to believe the drummer chair will be vacant in 5-7 years?

[LCArenas]

I think yes, but... In maybe five or seven years, after two or three albums.

But why would you even think that?  There simply isn't a vacant drummer position in the band, which is something that is necessary to have him come back.  What leads you to believe the drummer chair will be vacant in 5-7 years?

I don't even think he will come back as a full-time drummer. Maybe just play with them in one tour or even pull a Charlie Dominici and play with them in a reunion show. But I do think he will play with them again at some point, just for the sake of coming back or nostalgia. Yeah, it's too soon to tell that when they announced the new drummer a few days ago, but it's also too soon to say he'll never play with them again. Time will tell!

[Dublagent66]

I see only two possibilities for MP's return.  In a reunion show or if MM can't, for some reason, fulfill his obligations as the new drummer.  But, a lot has happened in 7 months and the likelihood of his return is pretty much slim to none.

[Knguro]

I love MP, I love what he did for us real fans for soooo long, i do have a lot of respect for the man, BUT, I want him faaaaaaarrrrr away from DT. 99.99% of us now love MM, and it would be disrespectful having MP back at any time. IMO.

[Zydar]

MP is keeping a low profile on this whole ordeal:

https://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/tm.aspx?high=&m=2661316&mpage=56#2667761

[RazielSR]

NO. He shouldn't return to DT. That time is over, that magic is gone, do not search again for that magic they had a long time ago cause it won't happen. His time in DT was over and damn...just see all the last 3 years interviews and see how MP is TIRED of DT. It is CLEAR. He regrets now? for sure, but that was clear from the very beginning and when I said that around here people almost killed me. Now is the time for Mangini and the band is plenty now of fresh and new energy.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

MP is keeping a low profile on this whole ordeal:

https://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/tm.aspx?high=&m=2661316&mpage=56#2667761

Hmmm, interesting. He acknowledges both DT fans and DT are found with renewed passion for the band and the music, and is sad to not be able to be a part of that. I kinda get the guy, and I feel somewhat sad for him. I'm sure his future projects will kick ass, though. 

[ReaPsTA]

MP is keeping a low profile on this whole ordeal:

https://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/tm.aspx?high=&m=2661316&mpage=56#2667761

The irony here is so thick.  The more critical DT fans (I'd throw myself in this category) have blamed everything negative about the band, or at least a lot of it, on Portnoy.  But in this post he's basically agreeing with all of our opinions and giving it a lot of credit.

Not that MP leaving the band didn't almost need to happen in a lot of ways, but in a sense I feel like he's gotten far too little credit.

[Perpetual Change]

The Moogs post was excellent. I'm going to repost it here:

I hope I don't come off sounding disrespectful to MP, but I have a couple observations about the recent happenings in DT land.  Hope my opinion isn't insulting.   

I'm a big fan of DT, but not much of their recent stuff.  The Count of Tuscany is one of my favorite songs they've ever done.  Kudos to the band for this epic song.  I love every song on every album (sans Falling into Infinity) up to Train of Thought.  After that CD, there were scattered highlights on each CD for me.  Dream Theater didn't have the same fire and the CD's just weren't gelling.  I'm not sure why, but maybe I wasn't alone?  I know MP looks at each CD as his baby and probably loves every single thing they've ever done.  Dream Theater became a pattern of a CD full of decent songs and a few good ones.  Maybe.....(and please take this lightly) - Mike felt the same way.  I don't know how he felt, but maybe he thought things needed a kick in the ass?  I sure felt this way - from a fan.   

I think MP was just trying to make the band better when he wanted a break.  Maybe things were on auto pilot.  Make a record, tour, make a record, tour, etc....  The recent albums certainly didn't have the hunger and the level of Dream Theater songs portrayed in Scenes from a Memory or Awake - to me.  It feels like they have that level of passion right now.  Like every member has a new vigor and swagger about creating new music.  All of this because Mike is not in the band and they have the exact sense of appreciation for their craft they did when they were making Images and Words.  Dream Theater is alive again - and it seems at Mike Portnoy's expense.  I haven't heard the new CD and I might be a fool, but I think the band is completely recharged and ready to conquer the world again.  Isn't that what MP wanted all along?  It's like he fell on a grenade to protect his troops.  He saved the one thing he loves the most in the world and now he can't be a part of it anymore.  It's ironic because Dream Theater is right now where Mike wanted them to be, but it took his departure to get them to that point.   

Again - I'm not stating facts, but just making my own observations.  In the end, I'm sure this will be a Genesis/Peter Gabriel type of split.  We'll get great music from Mike and Dream Theater. Kudos to Mike for handling all the press and what must be very hurtful information on blogs and even his own website.  It's refreshing to see Mangini so appreciative of Mike's tenure in the  band.   

I'm looking forward to great music from both DT and Mike Portnoy, but I think Mike Portnoy deserves a ton of credit for kicking Dream Theater in the ass and being the best they can possibly b

e.   

[Scrub206]

@OP: YES

[Nekov]

They once played a special show where MP and MM played together live. Maybe they could do that again sometime. Other than that, something would have to happen to MM for MP to come back so it is very unlikely.

[rumborak]

MP is keeping a low profile on this whole ordeal:

https://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/tm.aspx?high=&m=2661316&mpage=56#2667761

The irony here is so thick.  The more critical DT fans (I'd throw myself in this category) have blamed everything negative about the band, or at least a lot of it, on Portnoy.  But in this post he's basically agreeing with all of our opinions and giving it a lot of credit.

Not that MP leaving the band didn't almost need to happen in a lot of ways, but in a sense I feel like he's gotten far too little credit.

I think the expression "stepping on the grenade to protect the troops" is true almost 100%, but it also gives MP a way of deflecting the accusation that he might have been instrumental in the progression of turning DT into auto-pilot. He assumed more and more control of DT and relegated the rest of the band to mere performers (when they were not writing in the studio), and so DT became more and more MP and less JP/JR/JM etc. That, almost inevitably, made DT more and more one-dimensional and a candidate for burn-out.

rumborak

[Hal Incandenza]

The irony here is so thick.  The more critical DT fans (I'd throw myself in this category) have blamed everything negative about the band, or at least a lot of it, on Portnoy.  But in this post he's basically agreeing with all of our opinions and giving it a lot of credit.

Well, with as involved as Mike Portnoy has been with every aspect of DT over the years, he obviously deserves a huge chunk of the blame or credit as it's being dished out.

It looks very much like this whole thing has revitalized DT.  I really hope it revitalizes Portnoy in a similar fashion, and we get to hear some truly epic shit from him in the near future.

[ariich]

The irony here is so thick.  The more critical DT fans (I'd throw myself in this category) have blamed everything negative about the band, or at least a lot of it, on Portnoy.  But in this post he's basically agreeing with all of our opinions and giving it a lot of credit.

Well, with as involved as Mike Portnoy has been with every aspect of DT over the years, he obviously deserves a huge chunk of the blame or credit as it's being dished out.

Indeed, I think Reap's point was more that people are very quick to give him the blame while more reluctant to give him the credit, which isn't really fair.

[Hal Incandenza]

The irony here is so thick.  The more critical DT fans (I'd throw myself in this category) have blamed everything negative about the band, or at least a lot of it, on Portnoy.  But in this post he's basically agreeing with all of our opinions and giving it a lot of credit.

Well, with as involved as Mike Portnoy has been with every aspect of DT over the years, he obviously deserves a huge chunk of the blame or credit as it's being dished out.

Indeed, I think Reap's point was more that people are very quick to give him the blame while more reluctant to give him the credit, which isn't really fair.

Yeah, that may very well be true.

[ReaPsTA]

I think the expression "stepping on the grenade to protect the troops" is true almost 100%, but it also gives MP a way of deflecting the accusation that he might have been instrumental in the progression of turning DT into auto-pilot. He assumed more and more control of DT and relegated the rest of the band to mere performers (when they were not writing in the studio), and so DT became more and more MP and less JP/JR/JM etc. That, almost inevitably, made DT more and more one-dimensional and a candidate for burn-out.

rumborak

Well, I agree with that post.  Organizations adopt the personality of their leaders, and in a lot of ways DT took on MP's personality.

I find the situation more and more interesting as more details come out and I really start to think about it.  Particularly the way MP's business and personal sides intersect in weird ways and produce odd decisions.  He clearly saw something was wrong.  It was getting a bit stale, things were going on auto-pilot, etc.  But then the way he decided to handle it was super emotive.  It's almost like he wanted to be like one of those historically big bands and make the decision they would make, when DT wasn't in that position.

What if MP had gone into that meeting with the band and said "Hey guys, look, I really want to put this out there, but having toured with a couple other bands now and looking at what we've done recently, I think some of the magic is gone.  For the next album, I think we should really reinvent how we write and then try to be closer when we tour."  Obviously there would be much more said by everyone, but from there as a starting point, who knows.  What if MP told the band he was going to put more energy into it by slowing down on some of his broader business operations so he could practice his drumming, put out more official bootlegs (a business activity, but it directly helps the band), and put more energy into the songwriting?  Who knows?

But I guess it really speaks to who MP is as a person when you consider why none of these things happened.  The Constant Motion (sorry) of his life is too fundamental to how he views himself and acts, I don't think he could even conceive of giving it up.  And as for dealing with the issues of the band in a business-like fashion, I dunno.  It just never seems to be how he's handled these things.

In a sense, as much as you can (very) validly criticize MP's leadership of DT, I do feel genuinely really bad for him.  You have to wonder how much of his over-the-top energy during the last couple studio sessions came from masking frustration.  You have to wonder how deeply troubled he felt by DT to actually leave it.

I really do think that given all we've seen (DT reinvigorated, MP happily working as a free-agent drummer) that MP made the right decision by leaving the band.  But it's a shame that it couldn't have gone down another way.

[rumborak]

In a sense, as much as you can (very) validly criticize MP's leadership of DT, I do feel genuinely really bad for him.

Absolutely, I feel bad for him. There is no other way to look at it than that his departure gave DT a second lease on life, and in the worst+best case DT will experience a second spring, one that Mike could not be part of one way or the other.

rumborak

[jamhet]

There simply isn't a vacant drummer position in the band, which is something that is necessary to have him come back.  What leads you to believe the drummer chair will be vacant in 5-7 years?

Mangina is already 48 years old, and has had some injuries. You never know what comes down the road. And Porntoy is always 4 years younger than him.