MP's Snare

[ricky]

Where exactly in the song?

ACOS, one minute in.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

BC&SL has the best drum sound from Portnoy, IMO.

[rumborak]

I remember hearing Snakes & Arrows for the first time and thought "Holy shit, that's what drums are supposed to sound like."
Have to be honest, since then I can't get very excited about MP's drum sound, be it snare or whatever.

rumborak

[i_am_here_]

Definantly TOT and ACOS, and maybe SDOIT

[Gadough]

Basically whenever Mike hits the snare on the album it's replaced by a sample, like a drum machine's snare.

Yeah. No matter if you hit the snare soft or hard, it produces the same sound. Popular in the 80s for instance.

Oh, okay. I dunno, it sounds nice to me.  

Same here, never bothered me, even when I knew about it. I thought it was rather bothering that MP was ranting so much on their own best album because of it.

rumborak

The ghost notes on LtL sound horrible because of the trigger.

fuuuckkk.. I never noticed the ghost notes on that song. Now I can't un-hear them.

Forgive me, I'm not a musician, but WTF is a ghost note?

[Fuzzboy]

Basically whenever Mike hits the snare on the album it's replaced by a sample, like a drum machine's snare.

Yeah. No matter if you hit the snare soft or hard, it produces the same sound. Popular in the 80s for instance.

Oh, okay. I dunno, it sounds nice to me.  

Same here, never bothered me, even when I knew about it. I thought it was rather bothering that MP was ranting so much on their own best album because of it.

rumborak

The ghost notes on LtL sound horrible because of the trigger.

fuuuckkk.. I never noticed the ghost notes on that song. Now I can't un-hear them.

Forgive me, I'm not a musician, but WTF is a ghost note?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TAUHxiBwxQ
at around 2:40 the ghost notes are the snare hits in between the "main"/loudest snare hits

[Dimitrius]

Basically whenever Mike hits the snare on the album it's replaced by a sample, like a drum machine's snare.

Yeah. No matter if you hit the snare soft or hard, it produces the same sound. Popular in the 80s for instance.

Oh, okay. I dunno, it sounds nice to me.  

Same here, never bothered me, even when I knew about it. I thought it was rather bothering that MP was ranting so much on their own best album because of it.

rumborak

The ghost notes on LtL sound horrible because of the trigger.

fuuuckkk.. I never noticed the ghost notes on that song. Now I can't un-hear them.

Forgive me, I'm not a musician, but WTF is a ghost note?

Put LtL at 1:13, you hear those faint little snare parts? That's a ghost note.

[MykeHavoc]

I really don't hear what all the complaints are about. I don't think the "ghost" notes sound bad.

[mittinagus]

I & W was their signature sound and best sounding cd even if MP didn't liked the snare sound...

Tin

[Metabog]

Awake. Perfect sound, I don't know how they pulled off that awesome tone. It's like a combination of the snappyness from ACOS and the reverby samplage from IW. The drum sound in general on Awake is just so great, and the playing as well, so varied, so many different little details and effects.

[FlashCE]

What's wrong with the ghost notes? That's kinda how they're supposed to sound like...

[Exodus]

I actually liked the snare triggers on I&W. For some reason, they make the drums sound more 'dreamy' (probably not the best word to describe it) to me, which fits well with the sound of the whole album.

But my favorite would probably be Awake or ACOS.

[rumborak]

It's one of those things, sure, when it gets pointed out you'll notice it. But frankly, IAW is an early 90s product, and there are many other aspects on the album that scream that (including JLBs singing). I find the triggered snares less of a "problem" (not that there's really a problem with IAW).

rumborak

[Dimitrius]

No doubt about that, the keyboards in Surrounded sound so 90s! Almost to the point of being cheesy!

[LieLowTheWantedMan]

Awake.

[SystematicThought]

What about live album? What live album has your favorite snare?

I actually have to say I really liked Chaos In Motion's snare. That or Score.

Weren't the ones in Live at the Marquee triggered as well?

[FretMuppet]

Score all the way...

Now that I think about it, I don't know whether I like Octavarium's fresh sounding drums (kinda like Score too) or BC&SL's juicy sound, which is quite prominent on the Stargazer track

[olliemedsy]

I love the snare on awake and ACOS like everyone else, but people may disagree but I like the snare on FII as well, really resonates 

[bosk1]

Awake has a great snare sound. Also, what's wrong about snare drum on Images and words?

It's a sampled trigger, not a "real" snare.

Okay, I guess I'm a bit stupid for drums. Can you explain me what that means? If you don't feel like it, that's okay. 

Basically whenever Mike hits the snare on the album it's replaced by a sample, like a drum machine's snare.

Actually, unless I'm mistaken, that's not true.  The "triggered" snare does not replace the actual snare hit with a sample at all.  It triggers a sound gate that basically "opens" the snare mic for only a short, predetermined amount of time so the snare does not ring and all the snare hits sound almost identical (but, to many, that means they also sound cold, processed, and mechanical).  It also makes the drums a lot easier for whoever is doing the mixing because you don't get snare hits blending together with each other or with other things, so it is easier to isolate and work with the snare sound.  Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the information I remember reading about ages ago.

I remember hearing Snakes & Arrows for the first time and thought "Holy shit, that's what drums are supposed to sound like."
Have to be honest, since then I can't get very excited about MP's drum sound, be it snare or whatever.

rumborak

Never been a Rush fan, so I never heard S&A.  But I had the identical reaction when I heard Jimmy DeGrasso's drums on the Megadeth album The World Needs A Hero.  Not sure if you're familiar with it since I can't recall you EVER posting about Megadeth before, but it's worth checking out for the drums alone (although most fans don't much like the album as a whole and seem to rank it pretty low in the discography).

[Adami]

Actually, unless I'm mistaken, that's not true.  The "triggered" snare does not replace the actual snare hit with a sample at all.  It triggers a sound gate that basically "opens" the snare mic for only a short, predetermined amount of time so the snare does not ring and all the snare hits sound almost identical (but, to many, that means they also sound cold, processed, and mechanical).  It also makes the drums a lot easier for whoever is doing the mixing because you don't get snare hits blending together with each other or with other things, so it is easier to isolate and work with the snare sound.  Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the information I remember reading about ages ago.

No. Demi is correct. Triggering is basically one of two things. Pre-triggering, or post triggering. Pre-triggering is where they put a device on the drum that read the vibrations of the hit. It then translates those vibrations into an electronic signal that is then assigned to any sound you sound you want. Post triggering is taking the already recording drum hit, and replacing it with any sound you want. Basically you pick the volume level of the hit, and anything that passes that volume gets replaced.

I have no clue if portnoys I&W tracks were pre or post. However given the technology of the days, I'd say pre. However when they released the remixes, they just post triggered every drum with samples of his current drumset.

[bosk1]

Somebody other than Adami please correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the information I remember reading about ages ago.

[Adami]

Somebody other than Adami please correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the information I remember reading about ages ago.

I don't know if you're being sarcastic, but your outward cruelness to me is getting a little troubling.

[bosk1]

I'm not being sarcastic, but I am joking.  I just want a second opinion because I have a very clear recollection of what I said.  So either (1) I am right, (2) I completely misunderstood what I was told way back when, or (3) I was told incorrect information.  I'm fine if #2 or #3 are the case, but I just want to make sure.  I know what you do for a living, so I actually give your opinion on the subject a lot of weight.  I just want a second one because, again, I was under the strong impression that it was how I described it above.

[Adami]

As I said, I'm not sure what Portnoy did on the original recordings. I just cleared up what triggering was, and what they did on the remixes. If they did something else to the snare (even though it really sounds like pre-triggering), then it's not called triggering. It would just be heavy gating.

Getting every hit to sound equally loud and identical is done through triggering however.

[Dublagent66]

Awake was the best.  FII was the worst.

[walmartsecurity]

I like the I&W snare because it adds a unique and necessary vibe to the whole album that helps make it what it is. I also like the TOT snare, it's heavy with a lot of impact just like the vast majority of the disc. Lastly I think BC&SL has maybe the most balanced and clear sounding drums on a DT album in maybe 10 years or more. It doesn't overpower but it doesn't sit back either and every nuance can be heard with clarity. The slight reverb on the drums makes them sound better as well.

Honorable mention to the ACOS snare. Tuned high, very natural sounding, fits with the tone of the other instruments very well. I'm not sure what my favorite snare is, they all have their own kind of "mood"

[scoutmasterdave]

Basically whenever Mike hits the snare on the album it's replaced by a sample, like a drum machine's snare.

Actually, unless I'm mistaken, that's not true.  The "triggered" snare does not replace the actual snare hit with a sample at all.  It triggers a sound gate that basically "opens" the snare mic for only a short, predetermined amount of time so the snare does not ring and all the snare hits sound almost identical (but, to many, that means they also sound cold, processed, and mechanical).  It also makes the drums a lot easier for whoever is doing the mixing because you don't get snare hits blending together with each other or with other things, so it is easier to isolate and work with the snare sound.  Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the information I remember reading about ages ago.

I'm fairly certain it's a triggered sample, both  because of interviews I recall reading back in the day, and the (awful IMO) absolute consistency of the sound.

[scoutmasterdave]

And BTW, the piccolo snare MP used on ACoS is my fave.

[mrjazzguitar]

Six Degrees, followed by SFAM, ACOS, and Awake.

I think Six degrees is overall the best sounding album

[fadetoblackdude7]

Falling Into Infinity


Same with JMX's bass tone.

[ReaPsTA]

I'm not being sarcastic, but I am joking.  I just want a second opinion because I have a very clear recollection of what I said.  So either (1) I am right, (2) I completely misunderstood what I was told way back when, or (3) I was told incorrect information.  I'm fine if #2 or #3 are the case, but I just want to make sure.  I know what you do for a living, so I actually give your opinion on the subject a lot of weight.  I just want a second one because, again, I was under the strong impression that it was how I described it above.

Adami is 100% correct.

[Accelerando]

I'm going to have to go with Six Degrees, but I&W and TOT is coming close

[ReaPsTA]

I remember hearing Snakes & Arrows for the first time and thought "Holy shit, that's what drums are supposed to sound like."
Have to be honest, since then I can't get very excited about MP's drum sound, be it snare or whatever.

rumborak

Hm.  I mean look, I think it's a very good drum mix.  The snare is nice, and the kick is a bit higher quality than most of what's out there.  I also think the overall kit pumps very well and the tom mixes are well above average.  But the hihat sound is really mediocre and the overheads don't thrill me.  It works very well in the album, but I feel like I've heard better drum mixes, but artistically and technically.

[bosk1]

I'm not being sarcastic, but I am joking.  I just want a second opinion because I have a very clear recollection of what I said.  So either (1) I am right, (2) I completely misunderstood what I was told way back when, or (3) I was told incorrect information.  I'm fine if #2 or #3 are the case, but I just want to make sure.  I know what you do for a living, so I actually give your opinion on the subject a lot of weight.  I just want a second one because, again, I was under the strong impression that it was how I described it above.

Adami is 100% correct.

Well, shoot.  Guess I've been wrong all these years.

[ReaPsTA]

Well, shoot.  Guess I've been wrong all these years.

Always disappointing.  In fairness, gating snares does happen.

My question - How could you listen to the I&W snare and think that was a real snare sound?