SFAM vs. Operation: Mindcrime

[bosk1]

Until 1999, I considered O:M to be the best concept album of all time and one of the best albums of all time period.  Now, I halfway jokingly refer to Scenes as "the concept album that makes Mindcrime look like a high school musical."  Scenes was one of the key releases that expanded my musical horizons and really took my musical intrests in a new direction.  But, really, Mindcrime did the same thing years earlier. 

In all honesty, they're both great albums as far a I'm concerned.  I definitely prefer scenes for a few reasons.  They're both dark in their own way, but Mindcrime is a more heavy (in terms of subject matter and emotion--not necessarily musically heavy) kind of dark than Scenes, and as the years go by, I find myself identifying less with the story and the bigger statements the album is trying to make.  I guess that's why Scenes has stood the test of time.  It isn't trying as hard to make profound moral statements, so as views on various issues change over time, there's nothing in Scenes to alienate a listener in that regard.  It's just a good story that is executed well from a musical and lyrical standpoint that, like Mindcrime, translated into an awesome live presentation.

Feel free to list other great concept albums too if you must.  Maybe I'll pick the top 10 and do a concept album survivor at the end of this.  I don't recall ever having one. 

[Kosmo]

You should be sued for asking this. I'll have to think about it, too hard of a question.

[Mladen]

Yes, both albums are fantastic, but Scenes from a memory is something special. 

[eric42434224]

It is like comparing Howe and Gretzky.  Yes they are both hockey players, and each have their staunch supporters.  But like the two albums, they come from different times/eras, and have different strengths.  It is impossible to objectively rank one higher than the other.  One can only go on personal preference.  I choose Mindcrime because of the time in my life, how it affected me and my tastes, and how different it was at that point in time.  But to say that Scenes is a CLOSE second is an understatement.

[Bertielee]

Well I like OM very much and the live version was awesome. Yet, I prefer Scenes because, in my opinion, it's less the reflection of a era than OM. Lyrically and musically, I find OM to be too much the product of its time, which is not so much the case with Scenes, for the reasons you have stated. Both great concept albums anyway.
i also like Mercy Falls by Seventh Wonder, but, unfortunately, I think it will grow old quite rapidly because, despite the fact it is a really good album, I find it to be a little "forced" sometimes.

B.Lee

[emtee]

Don't know that I can even pick one over another. Both have great memories associated
to them and have stood the test of time. Some of both bands greatest work lies
within these 2 albums.

[Nekov]

Scenes is my favorite album. On top of that I don't really get operation mindcrime. I've listened to it several time and it really doesn't get me at any level.

[zxlkho]

Oh god, I can't vote. Too hard.

[bosk1]

Well I like OM very much and the live version was awesome. Yet, I prefer Scenes because, in my opinion, it's less the reflection of a era than OM. Lyrically and musically, I find OM to be too much the product of its time, which is not so much the case with Scenes, for the reasons you have stated.

Yeah, that's kinda what I was saying.  SFAM is more timeless.  The underlying themes in Mindcrime are, in a broad sense, timeless as well, but the album itself really does hit you over the head with the era it came from.  I don't get that with SFAM.



And, BTW, this poll isn't meant to "prove" anything.  Given that this is in the DT section on the DT forum, I have little doubt SFAM will most likely stay ahead.  But I'm still curious about how they stack up to fans here and some of the reasons why.

[OptionalPlayer]

I said Mindcrime, but I believe A Pleasant Shade of Grey takes the cake.

[jcmoorehead]

As many have said both are great, Mindcrime as mentioned does suffer from that issue that it's not really as relelvant as it was when released but it still holds up as a great album. For me personally I will give the nod to Scenes, Octavarium got me into Dream Theater but Scenes completely blew me away when I first heard it and I have no shame in admitting that the first time I heard Through Her Eyes it actually brought a tear to my eye.

As for other concept albums, the concept album which really sparked my passion for music was The Wall. That is an will forever remain one of my favourites, I had never heard anything like it before when I first listened to it.

[eric42434224]

Well I like OM very much and the live version was awesome. Yet, I prefer Scenes because, in my opinion, it's less the reflection of a era than OM. Lyrically and musically, I find OM to be too much the product of its time, which is not so much the case with Scenes, for the reasons you have stated.

Yeah, that's kinda what I was saying.  SFAM is more timeless.  The underlying themes in Mindcrime are, in a broad sense, timeless as well, but the album itself really does hit you over the head with the era it came from.  I don't get that with SFAM.

It's the political themes in OM that date it.

[MykeHavoc]

Mindcrime by a hair. Both are on par for me. The two best concept records ever.

[KevShmev]

Mindcrime is a better concept, while SFAM is a better album, if that makes sense.  Neither would be my favorite concept album, though.

And doing a concept album poll/survivor could be disastrous, as it would quickly devolve into a "What is a concept album?? debate.

[eric42434224]

Mindcrime is a better concept, while SFAM is a better album, if that makes sense.  Neither would be my favorite concept album, though.

And doing a concept album poll/survivor could be disastrous, as it would quickly devolve into a "What is a concept album?? debate.

More like what legally constitutes a concept album.   

[manticore999]

Good question.  And a really tough one!  I picked Scenes just because I appreciate it more, musically.  There are some really killer drum, key and guitar parts that just blow me away.  Really, realy loved OM too, and still listen to it regularly.  As I said in another post, every band seems to have their Yellow Brick Road, and OM and Scenes were their respective ones.

[reo73]

What a topic to pick my first post for.  I am a huge fan of both albums, but if I had to pick one to bring to a desert Island it would be SFAM because for one I like DT musically more than QR, but second OM is a more 80's era sounding album where Scenes still sounds fresh by today's metal standards.  Plus the musicianship is by far more complex with SFAM which I appreciate.  I do however thing the OM story line is a more interesting one with an angst to it and at the time of each release I was more into OM for the following few years than I was into SFAM.  So, weighing the pros and cons SFAM edges OM out slightly in 2011.  Who know, next year I may feel different.

I should mention though that each of those albums would get edged out by The Wall.

[ShadowWalker]

Even though I have SFAM as my favorite DT album, I don't even think I would rank it in my top 5 concept albums. Operation: Mindcrime, IMHO, is a flawless album that sits firmly in the #2 slot behind The Wall, even if the political backdrop does somewhat date the album (and given the cyclic nature of politics, what is old will be new again and the album always has a chance of being very relevant at some point in the future).

There is not a filler moment on Mindcrime, whereas if I am not in the right mood, some of the instrumentals and some of the post "Home" tracks can drag a bit. And while it was a great album for DT as they were shedding the funk from the post FII days, it was alway just a good album when held up to the concept album greats. Something about SFAM felt more derivative (and with, IIRC, the band openly talking about listening to what they considered to be great concept albums for inspiriation, that is not surprising).

Mindcrime on the other hand, I can press play at any point in time and by the first notes of "Anarchy-X", I am completely drawn in and will be along for that ride through the final "I remember now" spoken at the end of "Eyes..." Mindcrime also has the benefit of its songs being just as enjoyable extracted from the concept, whereas I don't see all of SFAM's pieces working simply as standalone songs.

Given this is a DT forum, I would be very surprised if Mindcrime was able to come out on top in this poll.

[Zydar]

Both are awesome albums, but Scenes gets my vote.

[reneranucci]

And doing a concept album poll/survivor could be disastrous, as it would quickly devolve into a "What is a concept album?? debate.

Not as long as you include Octavarium, SDOIT and 2112.

[Ħ]

To me, the first half of O:M is better than the first half of Scenes, and the second half of Scenes is better than the second half of O:M.

I think that Scenes has more variety.  O:M gets kind of stale and is very overwhelming to listen to all the way through.  Once I hit Spreading the Disease, I want to change to something else.

So Scenes.

But my favortie concept album is The Wall.

[Phantasmatron]

Overall, Scenes hands down.

I like the concept/plot for Mindcrime better, but Scenes has more fluidity to it, lyrically and musically.  Also the music is better.  

[LCArenas]

Shieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet bosk, tough question. Will think about it

[jsem]

O:M.

[pmahoney1337]

At this very moment my favorite concept album is Aqualung by Jethro Tull (I can't stop listening to it), but all-time I'd have to go with SFAM. I only just recently started listening to Queensryche because a lot of people praise them on this forum so I figured I'd give them a try. OM is pretty damn good, but at times I just start to feel this repetitiveness in it that I don't ever feel when listening to SFAM. This is probably just because I'm a huge prog fan though. Maybe OM will soon grow on me, I don't know, I'll just have to wait and see.

[pogoowner]

Mindcrime does a much better job telling the story/executing its concept. So as a concept album, I'd definitely rate it higher than SFAM. I do like some of the music in SFAM better, though, and as an album in general, I probably like it better.

[jsem]

Mindcrime does a much better job telling the story/executing its concept.

This. THIS THIS THIS

[ShadowWalker]

At this very moment my favorite concept album is Aqualung by Jethro Tull (I can't stop listening to it)

Aqualung is NOT a concept album according to Ian Anderson:

I always said at the time that this is not a concept album; this is just an album of varied songs of varied instrumentation and intensity in which three or four are the kind of keynote pieces for the album but it doesn't make it a concept album. In my mind when it came to writing the next album, Thick as a Brick, was done very much in the sense of: 'Whuh, if they thought Aqualung was a concept album, O-O-K, we'll show you a concept album.' And it was done as a kind of spoof, a send-up, of the concept album genre. ... But Aqualung itself, in my mind was never a concept album. Just a bunch of songs.

The quote, according to Wikipedia, is sourced to comments by Anderson on the Aqualung Live CD, track 16.

[jsem]

And when he had his mind set on making a concept album... he created one of the greatest albums of all time: Thick as a Brick.

[Orion1967]

My humble opinion is this.

Musically they are both fantastic albums, I prefer SFAM for mostly the reasons listed here in this thread, I think that stems from the concept that is portrayed is actually believable if you believe in reincarnation.  The story of a man who discovers through hypnosis that in a past life he was a murdered young girl seems more "natural" dare I say than the story line of OMC, a brainwashed punk doing political assasinations, falling in love with a nun then getting ordered to assisinate her and the rest...

Another great concept album I think is Spock's Beard - Snow.  But IMHO SFAM is the best.

[pmahoney1337]

At this very moment my favorite concept album is Aqualung by Jethro Tull (I can't stop listening to it)

Aqualung is NOT a concept album according to Ian Anderson:

I always said at the time that this is not a concept album; this is just an album of varied songs of varied instrumentation and intensity in which three or four are the kind of keynote pieces for the album but it doesn't make it a concept album. In my mind when it came to writing the next album, Thick as a Brick, was done very much in the sense of: 'Whuh, if they thought Aqualung was a concept album, O-O-K, we'll show you a concept album.' And it was done as a kind of spoof, a send-up, of the concept album genre. ... But Aqualung itself, in my mind was never a concept album. Just a bunch of songs.

The quote, according to Wikipedia, is sourced to comments by Anderson on the Aqualung Live CD, track 16.

hmmm, I stand corrected. I apologize for my ignorance. It is not a concept album, but an amazing album for sure.

[jsem]

At this very moment my favorite concept album is Aqualung by Jethro Tull (I can't stop listening to it)

Aqualung is NOT a concept album according to Ian Anderson:

I always said at the time that this is not a concept album; this is just an album of varied songs of varied instrumentation and intensity in which three or four are the kind of keynote pieces for the album but it doesn't make it a concept album. In my mind when it came to writing the next album, Thick as a Brick, was done very much in the sense of: 'Whuh, if they thought Aqualung was a concept album, O-O-K, we'll show you a concept album.' And it was done as a kind of spoof, a send-up, of the concept album genre. ... But Aqualung itself, in my mind was never a concept album. Just a bunch of songs.

The quote, according to Wikipedia, is sourced to comments by Anderson on the Aqualung Live CD, track 16.

hmmm, I stand corrected. I apologize for my ignorance. It is not a concept album, but an amazing album for sure.

You bet

[Global Laziness]

Mindcrime is a better concept, while SFAM is a better album, if that makes sense.

This.

[ShadowWalker]

hmmm, I stand corrected. I apologize for my ignorance. It is not a concept album, but an amazing album for sure.
[/quote]

No arguements there. It is an amazing album...

[yeshaberto]

Yes, both albums are fantastic, but Scenes from a memory is something special.