A question about DT drum parts...

[LKap13]

For all you drummers out there, did Portnoy's drum parts become more or less challenging to play as time went on? This is basically a comparison of I&W/Awake vs. 8VM/SC/BCSL drum difficulty.

[Adami]

For all you drummers out there, did Portnoy's drum parts become more or less challenging to play as time went on? This is basically a comparison of I&W/Awake vs. 8VM/SC/BCSL drum difficulty.

Less.

[Metabog]

Definitely less, but they were never really that hard, they were just really original and nice sounding. I think they remained kind of at the same difficulty towards the end, but a bit less inspired.

[Zook]

I only wish I played the drums, but as someone that pays attention to the drum parts alot, they definite got more straight foward after Train Of Thought.

[WDADU]

Definately less challenging. Listen to Images and Words and then Black Clouds And Silver Linings and you'll definately notice a difference. The only really difficult thing now is the double kick. If you can hit that speed (which isn't too fast) just about any drummer playing past the two year mark can play most of the material on the last three or four albums.

My two cents.

[DarkEternalNight]

Definitely less challenging. Everything before FII is a nice challenge.

[chrisbDTM]

less. there were quite a few times on the newest album where i could guess the fill coming. couldnt say the same with the earlier albums

[The Letter M]

less. there were quite a few times on the newest album where i could guess the fill coming. couldnt say the same with the earlier albums

This. And I can't say all of MP's drumming is very predictable - his drumming on Transatlantic's The Whirlwind is superb and some of his best! Unfortunately, the drumming on SC and BC&SL was a bit predictable and "been-there-done-that" in many places.

I'm not sure if it's what MP felt suited the music they made, or if he had become uninspired by the music, but his drumming had gotten a bit predictable in the last few albums. Case in point, his drumming on the first three-four albums was very fresh and unique with each approach, and a bit different from album-to-album.

It also helped that his drum set-up was ever-changing back then, as studio sessions and tour legs allowed, he added and changed his set-up between 89-99, but since he spawned the "Siamese Monster", there have been fewer innovations in his set-up. The most recognizable one was his use of the "Bonham" styled kit for the Octavarium sessions and following tour, with it's single bass drum approach, it challenged MP to let go of his double-bass toolbox of drum grooves and do something different.

-Marc.

[Volk9]

Definately less.

[hefdaddy42]

Definitely less.

[SystematicThought]

Less, only because I can play the opening to As I Am on drums   

Seriously though, they have become less difficult.

[?]

Definitely less. I agree that his drumming became more predictable on the last few albums.

[Martinman300]

Listen to the drumming at the end of the keyboard solo in this dying soul, that stuff is insane.

[tri.ad]

Definitely less. I&W and Awake had really complex drum patterns that changed almost every bar, whereas SC and BCASL have relatively basic patterns with some complex fills here and there.

[Lowdz]

If this is the case (can't say, I'm not a drummer), could this be due to the way the albums are now written in the studio with no time to live with the songs and adapt the parts like would happen in the early days? Let's not forget in some cases DT were playing the I&W songs for years before recording them.

[rumborak]

I think there´s a good number of factors at work for that one. Mike wasn´t as heavily involved in the band´s management in the beginning as he was in the end. But the main one is probably that in the early days he had to prove himself and the band. They couldn´t afford to lean back, which they definitely did for the last few albums.

rumborak

[ariich]

less. there were quite a few times on the newest album where i could guess the fill coming. couldnt say the same with the earlier albums

A large part of that is simply the fact that we are all very much used to MP's drumming, so we know what to expect. The same happens to pretty much all drummers after a while.

[Raziel666]

A large part of that is simply the fact that we are all very much used to MP's drumming, so we know what to expect. The same happens to pretty much all drummers after a while.

How about Gavin Harrison's drumming? Or Mark Zonder's? Or...

[ariich]

Gavin Harrison's drumming sounds pretty similar on every album he's on. Zonder I haven't listened to in that much detail in all honesty.

[TAC]

Gavin Harrison's drumming sounds pretty similar on every album he's on. Zonder I haven't listened to in that much detail in all honesty.

Zondor also sounds the same, and to me, is far more predictable than MP. I'll take MP any day.

[reneranucci]

ariich is right.

[MS394]

 

Listen to the drumming at the end of the keyboard solo in this dying soul, that stuff is insane.

This.

I think that the I&W/Awake era had more "musical" and creative drumming, but I actually find some modern DT´s songs more "challenging" and complex. For example:

ToT: "Stream of Consciousness" had some complex drumming at the beginning, the already mentioned part of "This Dying soul", the intro of "Honor Thy Father", etc. Plus, having the endurance to play heavy stuff for songs that long can be really challenging by itself.
8VM: "These Walls", "I Walk Beside You" and the title song have really interesting drumming, mainly in the verses of the songs IMO.
SC: The guitar solo in "Constant Motion" is really insane drumming-wise IMO, plus, "The Reckoning" had some interesting stuff.
BC&SL: Well, blast beats are a whole drumming concept by themselves, but I agree that the drumming was less technical here (mainly because the songs were also more melodic and less "shreddy"; I think we all can agree that Portnoy always played for the music IMO).

Still, I think his peak for complex and musical drumming was SFAM and Six Degrees, both of these albums are amazing IMO ("The Great Debate", "Finally Free", TDoE, the list goes on).

I agree that his stuff was more interesting in older DT, but that´s my two cents.

[Nic35]

Listen to the drumming at the end of the keyboard solo in this dying soul, that stuff is insane.

Still, I think his peak for complex and musical drumming was SFAM and Six Degrees, both of these albums are amazing IMO (“The Great Debate”, “Finally Free”, TDoE, the list goes on).

Totally agree.

I think, like ariich said, that we're all used to his drumming, that's why it became somewhat predictable. He still brings new interesting stuff every album though, his best drumming being on SDOIT.

MP's an oustanding drummer. I think what makes him so good is that he always plays what fits the music.

[blackngold29]

Hmm, never really thought about this before, pretty interesting. Have the guitar or keyboard parts also gotten less difficult?

[?]

Hmm, never really thought about this before, pretty interesting. Have the guitar or keyboard parts also gotten less difficult?

Well, at least the keyboard parts have definitely been more technical on the last few albums. Jordan's solos are much more "shreddier" than Kevin's and Derek's.

[dethklok09]

Hmm, never really thought about this before, pretty interesting. Have the guitar or keyboard parts also gotten less difficult?

id say the guitar parts have definetly gotten more difficult.

[hefdaddy42]

Hmm, never really thought about this before, pretty interesting. Have the guitar or keyboard parts also gotten less difficult?

No.

[SnakeEyes]

There's a difference between faster and "more difficult."  For instance, I think Petrucci's earlier guitar parts (up until around SFAM) were really melodic and jumped around a lot.  A lot of what he does now seems scalar and not so intervallic.  It's much easier to play scalar passages really fast on the guitar than it is to play intervallic passages.  Same with the keys, in my opinion.  I think Jordan recycles a lot of the same licks and runs and that's why it seems so crazy, because he plays them so fast.  But, if you listen to Kevin Moore's parts (and even Derek's parts), a lot of them are definitely more complicated and more challenging than Jordan's "WWEEDDLEYL DELEY DLDEWELLUI B E WEEEEEE" solos.  

A good example:  Lines in the Sand

I think that Derek's use of Jazz chords along with his timing & feel are A LOT more difficult than playing really fast licks. 
 

[jsem]

Hmm, never really thought about this before, pretty interesting. Have the guitar or keyboard parts also gotten less difficult?

No.

But the bass work has. Which saddens me.

[robwebster]

Hmm, never really thought about this before, pretty interesting. Have the guitar or keyboard parts also gotten less difficult?

No.

But the bass work has. Which saddens me.

Works for me. I'm not a very good bassist, so it's nice to be able to learn a DT song for a change.

[jsem]

Hmm, never really thought about this before, pretty interesting. Have the guitar or keyboard parts also gotten less difficult?

No.

But the bass work has. Which saddens me.

Works for me. I'm not a very good bassist, so it's nice to be able to learn a DT song for a change.

I don't think the bass work in Wither is particularly hard for anyone

[chaotic_ripper]

There's a difference between faster and "more difficult."  For instance, I think Petrucci's earlier guitar parts (up until around SFAM) were really melodic and jumped around a lot.  A lot of what he does now seems scalar and not so intervallic.  It's much easier to play scalar passages really fast on the guitar than it is to play intervallic passages.  Same with the keys, in my opinion.  I think Jordan recycles a lot of the same licks and runs and that's why it seems so crazy, because he plays them so fast.  But, if you listen to Kevin Moore's parts (and even Derek's parts), a lot of them are definitely more complicated and more challenging than Jordan's "WWEEDDLEYL DELEY DLDEWELLUI B E WEEEEEE" solos.  

A good example:  Lines in the Sand

I think that Derek's use of Jazz chords along with his timing & feel are A LOT more difficult than playing really fast licks. 
 

I agree with all of this. Also, going along with your Kevmo and Derek examples, that stuff was also more difficult to come up with.  Jordan is a genius, but Kevin and Derek were just more creative.  Please, I don't mean for this to turn into a fight, just opinion.

[ricky]

I usually try to fight the general consensus, but in this rare instance, everybody's right. Less.

Awake/6degrees/Images/Scenes = Best of Mike Portnoy's drumming. After Six degrees, in my opinion, the complexity dropped. It may have been due to a shift in musical style, which always has to be taken into account. But yeah, less.