Fiscal desicion

[ariich]

I'd imagine it was a combination of factors.

There is bound to be a financial consideration, they all have other projects and sponsorships and so on, but I'm pretty sure DT is their main income stream.

I think the biggest factor (certainly from what the band members have said) seems to just be the fact that they love playing, writing and recording, and they just want to get on with it.

And then I wouldn't completely write off them being a bit tired of Mike being in charge. I don't think it was a primary factor at all, but certainly from what JR said in the Prog interview, it seems that may have been a consideration for some of them.

[ReaPsTA]

And then I wouldn't completely write off them being a bit tired of Mike being in charge. I don't think it was a primary factor at all, but certainly from what JR said in the Prog interview, it seems that may have been a consideration for some of them.

I don't think it was a small factor.  The other members were restraining themselves to some degree.  MP went out there and put all his feelings up on display, and it wasn't pretty.  Tell me how you'd feel about dealing with someone with that attitude?  Not very good.  And, like Rudess said, he was trying to assert more control of the band as he was distancing from them.

What nobody's really seeing about this, although MP's more or less said it, is that this was an ugly breakup.  I liked MP's departure letter (and still do) in large part because you could tell that a lot had gone into this but he was trying to write something professional and addressed primarily at the fans.

Look at what Rudess said re:The Hiatus conversation.  If that's the sanitized for public consumption version, I'd hate to have been there for the real thing.  Petrucci strikes me as a fairly level-headed guy who doesn't tolerate bullshit.  Imagine MP trying to make the hiatus as Petrucci sits there totally unphased and reiterating that they're going back to the studio in January.  What about Rudess getting more flummoxed and depressed?  Myung just sitting there in silence?  Think of the ugliest argument you've had with your best friend or your family or your wife.

And look at their reactions afterwards.  Notice how the fanbase has moved on pretty quickly because (a) their primary allegiance is to the band and (b) a lot of fans felt things were getting stale and MP was too dictatorial.  Then think for a second that most of the band has reacted to this the exact same way.

It's not about the idea of accepting things as they are and not letting them eat you alive.  Look at how Rudess was, like, visibly upset by the whole thing.  He's not complain or sulking about the band's future.  But there was clear emotion.  Compare that to Myung caring about his role in the band for the first time in years, LaBrie almost excited about finding a new drummer, and Petrucci just kinda soldiering on (though in fairness, Petrucci is savvier about looking good in the media than people realize.  Better to stay tight lipped in general a lot of the time).

Call it speculation if you like, but the rabbit hole always goes deeper than is made immediately obvious.

[ariich]

So you think taking a stand against Mike was the main reason they insisted on going back into the studio, more so than the fact that they love playing in DT and need the income to support their families?

Because I think you're doing them a great disservice if that's what you're suggesting.

[ReaPsTA]

So you think taking a stand against Mike was the main reason they insisted on going back into the studio, more so than the fact that they love playing in DT and need the income to support their families?

Because I think you're doing them a great disservice if that's what you're suggesting.

Not the main reason.  For Petrucci I don't even think it was that pressing of a reason.  Whenever he's really wanted the band to go in a direction, it's happened, and I don't really think he felt challenged in that regard.

But look how emotions color basically everything human beings do.  Even when you're making a decision you know is best, your feelings toward the other people involved make you feel better or worse about the outcome.  What if this happened and it was Petrucci who left the band instead of Portnoy?  Wouldn't the reactions of the remaining band members be completely different?  I think so.

When relationships go bad, even with people you love, at some point you realize they just need to end.  It wasn't a Godfatheresque power struggle or something like that.  But a lot of different issues came to a head.  The remaining band members said that in order for the relationship to continue, these things had to happen.  MP felt he couldn't do that and left.

So thus you have the different range of reactions from JLB (excited about what the future brings), JM (feels like he has a role again), JR (really sad), and JP (emotional but accepting).  When you lay down the law with someone close to you, it's not about rebellion or winning a power struggle, it's about maintaining mutual respect and acknowledgment of each other's needs.

Read MP's interview.  Does he really come off like he's respecting the other band members and their conception of the band on even a basic level?  No.  You're saying JLB/JM/JP/JR weren't feeling that at all?  I'm not saying they would have done the hiatus if MP asked nicely enough.  But the reaction to the breakup would have been a lot different.

[ariich]

You're saying JLB/JM/JP/JR weren't feeling that at all?

Nope, I didn't say that at any point. In fact I specifically said it was probably something that was a factor, if a minor one.

But I do think you're reading too much into how things might have gone down. I've never seen JP to be anything but completely honest, so if he says that Mike was a gentleman about it then I believe him. And from what we've heard from the other band members, although some of them seem to be more outspoken about their feelings on the matter, nothing has contradicted that.

[Perpetual Change]

What nobody's really seeing about this...

I think nobody's seeing it because half of your post, with all due respect, is complete fiction. Fiction which could be true, but we just don't know.

I do, however, agree with this (mostly):

Read MP's interview.  Does he really come off like he's respecting the other band members and their conception of the band on even a basic level?  No.

He definitely does come across to me as being "done" with it all. While I wouldn't say Mike's been totally direspectful, he definitely doesn't come across like he actually still likes any of those guys.

Another odd thing worth pointing out: over the last four years or so, people have been saying that they wouldn't mind if DT took a break from the "album every 2 years" grind and then came back to do something new and fresh. The bizarre thing is, that's what Mike wanted to do, and fans pretty much turned on him. The internet opinion of Mike, unfortunately, hit a low awhile ago. Why? Simply because he's here, on the internet. Familiarity breeds contempt. Mike got unfairly singled out as being the driving force behind everything wrong with the band simply because he made himself out to be the face of the band. But really I think anyone expecting something better without Mike is going to be sorely disappointed. While I think DT 11 will be good, I think that post-hiatus DT album that never will happen now would have been better, and just the type of thing many fans have been hoping for.

[ariich]

Well said Joe.

I don't really know what to expect from DT11. I think things could be changed up a bit and we could get something quite exciting, because change naturally gets people to think in a different way. But I couldn't say whether it will be better or worse than what would have happened after a hiatus, which would have seen that freshness happen in a different way.

[Bertielee]

The problem is that they didn't want and probably couldn't afford that hiatus.Btw, what if MP had never come back after all? Can you iamgine the damage to DT and the other guys then?

B.Lee

[El Barto]

The problem is that they didn't want and probably couldn't afford that hiatus.Btw, what if MP had never come back after all? Can you iamgine the damage to DT and the other guys then?

B.Lee

That's an interesting point.  Indefinite is a funny thing.  Maybe he would have wanted to return in 2 years.  Maybe he or one of the others find a more entertaining project.  Their various side projects could have kept them apart for much longer than they had intended.  I'd consider it very likely that if DT took their hiatus,  JR would find a pretty good gig somewhere; quite possibly a better one than DT.   

And regardless of how people automatically dismiss money as a contributing factor in MP's departure,  I still think AV7 could be a significant business move.  I don't see how one could see the situation any different than MP making more money for 12-18 months, and the other guys making less money, indefinitely.  This thing is their livelihood.  I understand that making music is MP's passion, but I also recognize that he's got a family to look after and it'd be naive to assume that he never considered a potential payday.  I believe Bob when he says that MP is merely a hired gun, but the job has changed a bit between then and now, and just being an employee doesn't mean you can't make some pretty big bucks. 

[Ben_Jamin]

It's not that MP wanted to leave DT, he just kinda had too. The other guys most likely wanted to continue making music together with MP, but think about it MP bit off more than he could chew and it got the best of him. He constantly does things and being OCD doesn't help much. He wanted control since the last time he let the reigns go they got screwed. So in a way he was afraid to be back at that situation and it got the best of him.

What I do find weird, when the band became pretty big again he decided to randomly take a break. While that does seem like a good idea, I don't think it would've been the best. BC&SL was a great album on par with I&W, on both sales and musicianship. What people wanted was an evening with or a headlining show with one or two openers, that would've been a great tour. But what happened all we got were festival shows, worst thing that could've happened.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I wasn't expecting a true discussion on this thread lol