Songs Where a Live Version Surpasses the Original as "Definitive"

[MajorMatt]

Apart from the obvious LaTM performance of AH/TKH, others that come to mind are To Live Forever from I&W Live in Tokyo, JLB really slays on this and the guitar solo improv. is just awesome. I would love to see more 'fusiony' playing from JP. Only other I can think of right now is LiTS from Bucharest, that guitar solo is just pure awesomeness  JP takes the song to a whole other level and really lets go whereas he seems more reserved on official DVDs.

Matt

[El Barto]

Only other I can think of right now is LiTS from Bucharest, that guitar solo is just pure awesomeness  JP takes the song to a whole other level and really lets go whereas he seems more reserved on official DVDs.

Matt

Exactly what I was fixing to say (except for the Matt part).

[hefdaddy42]

Reap, the vocals on LatM weren't overdubbed.  I believe CJS confirmed that recently.

Source?  If I'm not mistaken, the "fact" that there were vocal overdubs has been well known for a long time.

[Perpetual Change]

I think BrotherH is mistakenly referring to the recent post where James said he doesn't use "auto-tune" live. 

As far as LaTM goes, it's pretty well documented that it was overdubbed. Though, if I remember correctly, it being overdubbed has much more to do with issues they were having with the microphone than James' performance. I think anyone who's listened to the bootlegs from that era knows that what you hear on LatM is a typical James performance from the Images tour.

[Ħ]

I think BrotherH is mistakenly referring to the recent post where James said he doesn't use "auto-tune" live. 

As far as LaTM goes, it's pretty well documented that it was overdubbed. Though, if I remember correctly, it being overdubbed has much more to do with issues they were having with the microphone than James' performance. I think anyone who's listened to the bootlegs from that era knows that what you hear on LatM is a typical James performance from the Images tour.

Oh yeah, that's it.  I just double checked.  Sorry.  That's disappointing.

[GuineaPig]

The most obvious answer is "Hollow Years" on Budokan.  The second most obvious would be "The Killing Hand" on LATM.

From there, it probably goes

Raise the Knife - Score
Another Won - Score
The Glass Prison - Gigantour

Those are the only five I'd consider that the "definitive" version is not the studio version. 

[Mladen]

Panic attack on Chaos in Motion. Just incredible, especially James.

Also, ''Eric Disrude, ladies and gentleman!'' 

[Jarlaxle]

Pretty much everything off of Score because it sounds fucking amazing, but it has so much energy for some reason. I love watching that DVD.

[Ben_Jamin]

Never Enough, Endless Sacrifice

[GuineaPig]

I still think people are playing a bit fast and loose with the meaning behind the thread.  The idea is not to provide good live songs or recordings, but recordings that you consider the definitive version of it; so that when you think of the song, you think of that specific version to the exclusion of others.

[lithium112]

When I was first getting into DT I downloaded a few of their songs off of my school's residence P2P network and among them was the live version of Octavarium from Score. After having listened to that song countless times, I finally heard the album version and it was just somehow... disappointing. It was still an amazing song, but Jordan's continuum intro (one of my favourite parts of the song) was somehow less haunting in the studio. The main difference was JLB's vocals which, IMO sound a lot more exciting and passionate in the live recording. Not to mention the scream near the end of course. So yeah, Score version of Octavarium is definitely the definitive version in my mind.

Another similar experience was with A Fortune in Lies from LATM. Not much needs to be said here except JLB kills it and the song just sounds so much more kickass live than on the album that I can barely even listen to the WDADU version anymore.

[Ħ]

When I was first getting into DT I downloaded a few of their songs off of my school's residence P2P network and among them was the live version of Octavarium from Score. After having listened to that song countless times, I finally heard the album version and it was just somehow... disappointing. It was still an amazing song, but Jordan's continuum intro (one of my favourite parts of the song) was somehow less haunting in the studio. The main difference was JLB's vocals which, IMO sound a lot more exciting and passionate in the live recording. Not to mention the scream near the end of course. So yeah, Score version of Octavarium is definitely the definitive version in my mind.

Another similar experience was with A Fortune in Lies from LATM. Not much needs to be said here except JLB kills it and the song just sounds so much more kickass live than on the album that I can barely even listen to the WDADU version anymore.

Welcome to the forums!  That's a mature first post for a newbie.  I definitely agree with your choices.  Although, I always cringe at the "wwwhheyes open but not getting through to meee!" 

[lithium112]

Welcome to the forums!  That's a mature first post for a newbie.  I definitely agree with your choices.  Although, I always cringe at the "wwwhheyes open but not getting through to meee!" 

Yeah, I know what you mean... he does have certain vocal "eccentricities" but over the years I've grown to enjoy them rather than cringe. For the most part 

And thanks man! I've been lurking for a while.. just haven't made an account until now. Sorry - here's my real first post:

"OMG hi guise! sooooo i'm new here and i just started listening to DT. they're totally awesome! u guys should check them out! wat are every1's fav albums? mine are definitely falling intro infinity, pull me under and john petrucci!!!"

[razorsedge]

Trial of Tears- Budokan. Love how James sings the last section.

Trial of Tears - OiaLT.  it has that bluesy guitar bend during "the wasteland" that just gives me chills every time.

definitely Hollow Years from Budokan

Peruvian Skies from OiaLT

[razorsedge]

Trial of Tears- Budokan. Love how James sings the last section.

Trial of Tears - OiaLT.  it has that bluesy guitar bend during "the wasteland" that just gives me chills every time.

definitely Hollow Years from Budokan

Peruvian Skies from OiaLT

Sacrificed Sons from Score

The killing Hand from WDADRU

Oh, and definitely Burning My Soul from a live show at a small club, Derek era.  I can't recall the date or place, and I only have the video recording.  I'm pretty sure I was directed to the torrent of it by this site.  I thought it was an incredible rendition of an okay song.  So much energy coming from the guys.  They just rock out so hard and scream the chorus together.  awesome.   

[IdoSC]

Alright, I prefer WDADR over the original, mainly because of being a JLB fanboy. But seriously, he nails it imo.

Most tracks on Score shined, especially Octavarium, SDoIT and IF.

Budokan and OiaLT have great editions for some songs, can't remember them all, but not many surpass the original. I do have to mention DT's performance of Peruvian Skies in Chile at '05...ruled so bad.

Voices at 2008, in that Progressive Nation fanclub bootleg. If you don't know what I'm talking about, ignore, sorry.

I'm a huge fan of the 2007 IaW performance, even though most of the songs there are better in their original edition. The three most notable songs in this show are imo Another Day, Take the Time (one of the last few performances with the cut bridge), and Learning to Live.

Basically I'm a huge fan of live performances of DT...they're just so professional and accurate when performing it. Either way, most songs work better for me live, but one song I never managed to like much when played live is Endless Sacrifice. It just sounds so good in the studio.

*Edited to fit the notes in the first post, sorry.

[TAC]

Voices at 2008, in that Progressive Nation fanclub bootleg. If you don't know what I'm talking about, ignore, sorry.

This CD is almost unlistenable because James is so low in the mix. Too bad because it's a great set.

[CrimsonE]

I don't know if I'd go so far as to say definitive, but in many ways, the extended live version of Surrounded found on the Chaos in Motion DVD surpasses the original. 

[Ħ]

I don't know if I'd go so far as to say definitive, but in many ways, the extended live version of Surrounded found on the Chaos in Motion DVD surpasses the original. 

Oh yeah.  That rendition bumped Surrounded to my top 15.  If only, if only, if only James was on a good night.  Sigh.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I don't know if I'd go so far as to say definitive, but in many ways, the extended live version of Surrounded found on the Chaos in Motion DVD surpasses the original.  

Hell no.

[Dimitrius]

I don't know if I'd go so far as to say definitive, but in many ways, the extended live version of Surrounded found on the Chaos in Motion DVD surpasses the original. 

Surrounded on LATM sounds better. *shrugs*

[IdoSC]

For another alternative of Surrounded '07 in good quality, you can listen to IAW 2007 anniversary performance. James might have hit less notes there, but his sound overall is way better.

[Perpetual Change]

I don't know if I'd go so far as to say definitive, but in many ways, the extended live version of Surrounded found on the Chaos in Motion DVD surpasses the original. 

Oh yeah.  That rendition bumped Surrounded to my top 15.  If only, if only, if only James was on a good night.  Sigh.

I compeltely agree with this. They better bring that back live. That's such a special song and the performance is so uplifting, especially since it weaves the best of new and old Dream Theater together. It's like everything we love about the band in one song.

[orcus116]

The problem with Surrounded '07 is that the entire song is like 40% Surrounded, 60% new stuff.

[RuRoRul]

Yeah when most people think of Surrounded I'm sure they think of a 5 minute song rather than a 15 song, so I don't think that is the definitive version.

I'd say Raise The Knife from score, since it was only a demo before then. The same with Another Won.

[Ħ]

The probably with Surrounded '07 is that the entire song is like 40% Surrounded, 60% new stuff.

I have no idea whether or not you're supporting it or arguing against it.  Did you mean "problem"

[orcus116]

 

The worst part is that I just had a decent amount of sleep so my brain should be working.

[guysullavin]

The Killing Hand WDADRU

Amazing

[Adami]

If you took the Score version of Metropolis, and added in the LATM scream he did (you all know which one) then that would be the ultimate version of that song.

[Laddenvore]

If you took the Score version of Metropolis, and added in the LATM scream he did (you all know which one) then that would be the ultimate version of that song.

I don't, but I'm interested.

[Adami]

As a man, I've it's all caught up with meeeeeee

That one.

[IdoSC]

The same with Another Won.

Oh seriously, every pro recording of a recent DT concert where they perform a Majesty demo will be better than the original. Especially because of LaBrie instead of Collins...

[hefdaddy42]

The same with Another Won.

Oh seriously, every pro recording of a recent DT concert where they perform a Majesty demo will be better than the original. Especially because of LaBrie instead of Collins...

That's the only one.  Well, there was that time several years ago when they did Your Majesty, but that was only at one show.  They pretty much ignore the Majesty songs.  As they should.

[Ben_Jamin]

I like how jlb totally bombed it

[IdoSC]

The same with Another Won.

Oh seriously, every pro recording of a recent DT concert where they perform a Majesty demo will be better than the original. Especially because of LaBrie instead of Collins...

That's the only one.  Well, there was that time several years ago when they did Your Majesty, but that was only at one show.  They pretty much ignore the Majesty songs.  As they should.

I know it's the only one (hell, I didn't know they played Your Majesty), I meant that IF they did play Majesty songs live, it'd sound better now either way both because Majesty demos weren't as professionally recorded as their latest DVDs, and because JLB is there instead of Collins.