Songs Where a Live Version Surpasses the Original as "Definitive"

[ReaPsTA]

Sometimes you hear a live version of a song, and you know the studio version just isn't going to do it for you anymore.  This is a thread about those live tracks.

Focus:  Simple premise, but a couple ground rules have to be laid down so it actually works as a discussion:

- Please don't list a WDADU or Majesty song without some kind of elaboration.  Everyone knows the production on the album is weak and that virtually all of the fanbase prefers CD to JLB.  Why is that particular version definitive to you?  How does it enhance the original?

- Everyone should already know Another Won off Score is virtually perfect.  Captures the youth and energy of the original while bringing to the table the refinement, skill, and maturity of the band 20 years later.  Plus, JLB screams awesome.  No reason to list this in your post.

- Don't list a bootleg version unless you can link to it or it's a well known concert that everyone probably has.  It's boring to read about how good something is without being able to talk about it or hear what the poster's describing.  Official bootlegs and fan club CDs are of course okay.

- EDIT: List a specific recording.  This is about a new definitive version of a song, not just a song you really like live.

So with that, I'll get it started:

Stream of Consciousness - Live at Budokan:  I don't understand what the studio version brings to the table that this one doesn't.  The live version has the guitar harmonies at the end (which you wouldn't expect, but I guess the harmonizer got the job done), the lack of a backing guitar means you can hear more of Rudess's piano, and the live setting adds a sense of scope.

This isn't a rip on the studio version, which is very effective, but I think the Budokan version better captures the feel of the piece.  I especially like how Rudess's keyboard solo at the end is more vibrant.  It's one of my favorite DT keyboard solos, and it's nice to hear it better emphasized. All around, this just feels like a more complete experience to me.

The Killing Hand - Live at the Marquee:  Okay, I have to follow my own rule, so here goes.  First of all, I know the vocals were overdubbed, I just don't care.  In terms of pure epic metalness, does JLB get any better than this?  He screams his head off at seemingly every line in the song, and it's AWESOME.  The last "I Am The Killing, HAAAAAAAANNNNND" is unbelievably epic.  And, let's face it, since it was done in the studio, it has that little bit of extra juice to it.

The keyboards are essentially the same as the album, but the patches sound more like I&W and reflect that sort of magic.  The drumming is totally driving and brutal.  The bass unfortunately suffers, but for once I don't care.  The guitars are in that weird mode where they have the tightness and grit of Awake but still the tone of I&W, which is perfect for this song.

I like the WDADRU version, but on a fundamental creative level I'm not sure it works.  Not because it takes itself too seriously (I appreciate its somber nature), but because it didn't quite shake the power metal out of the song.  The LATM embraces what the song is, adds a bit of artistry in there so it still has some meaning beyond heavy riffs, and it just works wonderously.

Raise the Knife - Score: An improvement over the original in almost every way.

- The extra little bit of drum and bass groove before the solo
- The solo itself being far more vibrant and interesting.  The keyboard patch under it is really nice too
- MP backing vocals at the end.  They add more depth to it
- The whole extended outro is brilliance. First there's the cool FXy thing then there's the really melodic guitar thing
- I can't call the Continuum "better," but I think it brings a really nice quality to the music.  The whole song has a cool organic thing going on, and the Continuum better fills that role.
- I think JP's more FX'd live tone works well in this song.
- JLB's vocal performance is really compelling.  He just gets everything right.

I enjoy the studio version in some ways.  I really love the ride bell in the second verse.  DS's lead tone is cool.  I like the different beat in "Reading through all of the digests..." section.  But as a musical experience, the Score version works better on the whole. Unlike Steam of Consciousness, where I still listen to the studio version for what it is, I almost never touch the studio version anymore.

[orcus116]

I honestly can't think of one. Maybe Six Degrees but that's it.

Wait is this an opinion thread or a general fanbase thread?

[Fiery Winds]

The only thing I can think of is "The Killing Hand" from WDADRU.  I prefer that over the album version. 

[bosk1]

1.  The Killing Hand on LATM
2.  ACOS on LSFNY

Those two immediately spring to mind.

[TAC]

ALL of the Train Of Thought tracks on Live At Budokan.
ALL of the SFAM tracks on LSFNY.
Raise The Knife from Score

[wolfking]

Dunno about being definitive but these IMO;

Hollow Years (Budokan)
A Change of Season (LSFNY)
Afterlife (Score)
Learning to Live (LSFNY)

[MasterLomaxus]

Through Her Eyes - Live Scenes from New York

The Test that Stumped them All-  Budokan

The Spirit Carries On - Score

[Ħ]

When I think of the "definitive" song, I usually think of the studio version.  However, there are many live renditions of songs that definitely make improvements on the original.

The Killing Hand from LatM
Learning to Live from LSFNY
Scarred from OiaLT
Hollow Years from LaB
Take Away My Pain from OiaLT
Cover My Eyes from 5YiaLT
To Live Forever from LiT
Another Won from Score

I especially like what they do with ballads.

[TAC]

Hollow Years (Budokan)

This, to me, is the best example. The FII version, to me, sucks! Such a lame song for such a great band. that's what I thought back then. I guess it's a nice song..but..anyway..
The Live version propells this to the TAC Top 20! Whereas the FII version is in the lower 20!

[bosk1]

I'll add a couple more:

Caught In A New Millenium - LSFNY (cheating?  perhaps, but although I like both NM and CIAW, this version surpasses them both)
The Mirror - LSFNY
Take Away My Pain - Old Bridge
Peruvian Skies - OIALT (I just love this version with the Floyd and Metallica interludes, and will always choose this version over the studio version)

[chrisbDTM]

Another Hand- The Killing Hand    -   LATM

[Ħ]

I'll add a couple more:

Caught In A New Millenium - LSFNY (cheating?  perhaps, but although I like both NM and CIAW, this version surpasses them both)
The Mirror - LSFNY
Take Away My Pain - Old Bridge
Peruvian Skies - OIALT (I just love this version with the Floyd and Metallica interludes, and will always choose this version over the studio version)

Oh yeah, definitely!  Great add.  CiaNM is particularly epic.  I don't think I've heard TWMP from Old Bridge.  In fact, I've never heard of Old Bridge. 

[TAC]

Take Away My Pain - Old Bridge

I agree Bosk! I would've preferred the last chorus not be sung..

  In fact, I've never heard of Old Bridge. 

You need to put this on your Christmas list!

[orcus116]

[post, wait for it]

Today at 04:56:03 PM

[ZeppelinDT]

Bombay Vindaloo   

[TAC]

Bombay Vindaloo   

Yeah..and Moon Bubbles!

[skydivingninja]

6DoiT on Score
The Killing Hand on LatM

Two best examples that come to mind.  Metropolis from Score has a shot too.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Another Won
Raise the Knife

[John94]

Sacrificed Sons on Score.

Pretty good with the orchestra.

[Ħ]

Bombay Vindaloo   

Yeah..and Moon Bubbles!

Never heard of Moon Bubbles...?

[Ben_Jamin]

Constant Motion

[ZeppelinDT]

Bombay Vindaloo   

Yeah..and Moon Bubbles!

Never heard of Moon Bubbles...?

It's on the 2002 Fan Club CD.  Off the top of my head, I'm not sure if it's been officially released anywhere else...

[ReaPsTA]

Bombay Vindaloo   

Yeah..and Moon Bubbles!

Never heard of Moon Bubbles...?

It's like a two minute bass solo followed by JP playing a guitar solo over JM playing a bass melody/rhythm/harmonics.

[Fiery Winds]

As good as AH/TKH is on LATM, with CJS's impressive vocals, I prefer the WDADRU version because of the softer interlude in the middle and JP's solo and COTB mashup. Crap, that's a lot of acronyms.

[ZirconBlue]

A lot of people seem to like the LatM version of The Killing Hand, but, to me, the definitive version is the one recorded at Birch Hill Night Club (Old Bridge, NJ) on 12/14/96.  I believe it's the version from the Japanese Hollow Years cd single.  It's got the Carol of the Bells section, a cool laugh sample after "I laugh at what I've done", plus "Mike, you wanna do this" at the end of "Another Hand". 

[Perpetual Change]

Trial of Tears- Budokan. Love how James sings the last section.

[Volk9]

WHIIIIIIIIIIITEEE WAAAAAAAAALLLLLL!!!!!

[darkshade]

A Change of Seasons - LSFNY
A Fortune In Lies - LATM
The Killing Hand - LATM
everything else from WDADRU, i just dont like CD's vocals. plus Rudess on keys 

as for Score, sometimes i think SDOIT, SS, 8V and Metropolis are the definitive versions, because the orchestra adds so much to the songs, but sometimes i just gotta have the studio versions. Theyre too good. so it's up in the air right now

btw the best version of The Answer Lies Within is not the Score version, but the Rudess "Notes On A Dream" version

[juice]

Octavarium from Score
Sacrificed Sons from Score
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence from Score
Metropolis form Score

take a wild guess at what my favorite live DVD is 

[Occasional_Madman]

I always thought Take The Time had much more energy live, despite not being able to do the chorus properly, which always kinda irked me. But I find it more than compensates with DAT SOLO.

[ReaPsTA]

I always thought Take The Time had much more energy live, despite not being able to do the chorus properly, which always kinda irked me. But I find it more than compensates with DAT SOLO.

In light of this post, I threw a new rule into the OP:

List a specific recording.  This is about a new definitive version of a song, not just a song you really like live.

[Ħ]

Reap, the vocals on LatM weren't overdubbed.  I believe CJS confirmed that recently.

[Vivace]

Easy. The Killing Hand. Not only does JLB just kill on this song over CD (obviously) but the band really changed the song for the better as they matured. I always think of the studio version as the demo and the live version as the definitive.

[Dimitrius]

The Killing Hand in LATM.
Trial of Tears and SoC in Live at Budokan.


@Reap: What makes SoC in Budokan so much better than the original is that Rudess keyboard is audible throughout the song and I don't mean in the parts where he has like a little spot, I mean when the main guitar riff is going you can clearly hear the keys too (which is not the case in the studio version) and that makes the song 100 times better!

[JayOctavarium]

Pull Me Under fro Live At Bucherest... the song has been done so many times, its refreshing to hear them f*ck with the tempo