Upcoming Rich Wilson DT interview in Classic Rock magazine

[Samsara]

Yeah.

Anyway, I'm done with this whole mess. My point was made. And the apologists for MP is getting tiresome. I love the guy's drumming and I identify with his obsessive-compulsive knack for collecting. But I can't sit there and "understand" (like he is asking fans to do, which is the very reason I am asking these questions, bosk1) the situation, if he isn't going to answer the questions that will enable us TO understand.

And yes, bosk, on Facebook, he has asked people to "understand" the situation better with the PROG article. And my question is a very valid one, and goes a long way to understanding the situation. You said mike doesn't owe us an explanation.

Well, I beg to differ. Because if he wants folks to understand the situation, he clearly owes us the accurate explanation of the situation in order to to do so.

Anyway, I'm finished. Go ahead and take your next shot, because you will, or your mods will. Or someone will. But I'll bow out on this.

Unreal.

and thanks phentalmyst. I got it.

If that's the case, then fine. The band wouldn't work with what MP wanted. Sounds to me there was a unified four guys that wanted to do one thing, and MP that wanted to do another. So again I go back to my original thought:

Dream Theater provides the living for five guys, and they are at their peak (other than PUll Me Under) in terms of commercial viability. Mike picking NOW to try and stop them is by far and away extremely unfair to the four other guys, who clearly are unified in wanting to continue. The band is bigger than Mike Portnoy.

I sympathize with Mike and his spot in life, and I respect HIM wanting a break. But to expect four other grown men with families to say "ok MIke, we'll just completely stop right now, at our peak" is unfair.

But I can understand Mike's frustration, but he more than anyone should realize that a band is bigger than one person.

[bosk1]

p.s. and if that question I am asking HAS been asked, publicly, then POST WHERE THAT ANSWER IS. Because quite frankly, that question goes a long way in shaping how people will react to Portnoy leaving.

Well, you'll just have to buy the magazine for that.  

(and STOP YELLING!  )

[TAC]

Didn't the band talk him out of walking away back in the FII days?

Scotty's post makes a lot of sense and it's the bext explanation that I can go with. It seems that this was one big game of chicken and the BAND was going to use it to regain some power. It seems, for quite some time, that they called his bluff.

This showdown appears to have been years in the making. Even thoguh MP made this bed, this is an old interview, and he still has a right to be "devastated"

I believe the worst is yet to come, when MP has some idle time and DT is releasing a new album and tour? He's going to be faced with all sorts of questions. "Have you heard it, do you like it? Will you go see them? Etc..."

[bosk1]

And the apologists for MP is getting tiresome.

*accepts invitation to take shot* 

Well, now that Blob's not here, I don't know that it's about Mike apologetics, or that it even needs to be.  All I'm saying is, I don't get the need to demand information and demand that somebody be cast as the bad guy.  (and I don't mean to single you out on this because it's not all you; your posts are just easier to respond to because they make articulate and coherent points that actually can be responded to)  Yeah, Mike didn't handle this well in terms of some of the things he's said publicly.  But beyond that, why can't we just accept that however this actually went down, it's complicated on both sides, and then just move on and get off Mike's and the band's backs about it?

[Adami]

MP didn't come off very well when all of this went down. But a good number of us here are coming off as much much worse.

[phentalmyst]

here's my theory that i've been sending out to MP.com forumers that have shown interest. i have other things to support it, but i haven't had a chance to write them up yet...

the PROG article mentions how the band originally met up to FINALIZE studio plans before MP dropped the bomb that he wanted the band to take a break. this leads me to believe ideas had been previously discussed. additionally, MP mentions how JM is being even more distant and how others were "complaining" about day-to-day things inside DT. couple this with the lyric rule that shelved JM from contributing and the way MP basically ridiculed JM's desire to write together in a room in the LiT/OYIAL commentary, and it honestly leads me to believe that the band (maybe with JM being the instigator) was starting to want to take some control back from MP and he couldn't handle it. to him, a break would reset everyone to where he could call the shots as he always has. 2 big things have happened since MP left that give this theory weight:

A) JP saying on his forum that the band plans to write BEFORE and IN the studio and he's open to the idea of an outsider producer
B) JLB said in another interview that JM is being more outspoken than ever ("thinking about this and that")

i honestly believe there's a BIG rift being MP and JM as well as the fact that the band was actually looking to take over some of the things MP was doing BEFORE he left.

feel free to disagree.

[Dream Team]

I'll believe JM is going to be more vocal and involved when I actually see it/hear it. I'm not buying in yet.

Also, everyone is overstating what happened on that WDADRU commentary. Here's a paraphrased version of what happened:

JM: I wish (not WE NEED TO) we could go back to being a carefree band, just jamming and writing any old time, you know
MP: Well, things are different now, we have families and such and there's no time outside of rehearsals

It wasn't all "OMG JM you're such an ignorant tool for suggesting such a thing ha-ha-ha, I now hold you in contempt and will keep you under my foot forever bwa-hah-hah""

[ZKX-2099]

God damn I want to hear DT-11.

[El Barto]

I'll believe JM is going to be more vocal and involved when I actually see it/hear it. I'm not buying in yet.

Also, everyone is overstating what happened on that WDADRU commentary. Here's a paraphrased version of what happened:

JM: I wish (not WE NEED TO) we could go back to being a carefree band, just jamming and writing any old time, you know
MP: Well, things are different now, we have families and such and there's no time outside of rehearsals

It wasn't all "OMG JM you're such an ignorant tool for suggesting such a thing ha-ha-ha, I now hold you in contempt and will keep you under my foot forever bwa-hah-hah""

It seems like everybody here took it as a bit more hostile than that.  No, it didn't sound like he pulled a knife or anything, but it definitely came across as belittlement. 

[erik16]

MP forum seems to be down, I can't access it. Wanted to read the replies to MP part there as well. Anyone else having a problem?

[ZBomber]

I really hate how MP acts like this is JUST his band. Its not.

I'm sick of MP at this point. I would actually be happier if he never rejoins the band.

[j]

It wasn't all "OMG JM you're such an ignorant tool for suggesting such a thing ha-ha-ha, I now hold you in contempt and will keep you under my foot forever bwa-hah-hah""

  If only he had said that.

But yeah, maybe personality differences between Myung and Portnoy have had something to do with his relative silence all these years; I wouldn't doubt it.  But as for Myung stepping up in any significant way now that Portnoy's gone, I'll believe it when I see it.

-J

[Lowdz]

I think maybe MP needs to revisit step 10 of the 12 step program

10 Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

For me, of course Mike has the right to leave. I don't blame him for that. If you aren't happy you owe it to yourself. At least own the decision. also, if you feel forced  into a corner I don't expect him to be happy about it, but he still did have a choice.

I don't see that a "disconnected" JM matters at all. I don't particularly like many of my co-workers. Some of them don't pull their weight, but I still turn up to work and have a professional relationship with them, for the benefit of the business and the customers. And if I didn't I would be disciplined and fired. Sounds like a poor excuse to me and about the only solid reason I've heard. Clutching at straws... still drowning.

I'm sure the forum at MP's website being down is not a co-incidence. The rest of it seems to be working. But if Mike feels bad now, just wait until DT choose the new drummer.  I love DT and I haven't liked any of this. I have been critical of Mike recently (maybe unfairly to some degree) but I appreciate everything he did for ME for all these years. I just think he made the wrong call here and for his happiness he maybe needs to take inventory.
Now I'm rambling.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I think maybe MP needs to revisit step 10 of the 12 step program

10 Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

[Stoneyman]

Maybe a break wouldnt have been needed if the guys worked out their personal conflicts at the meetings to discuss the studio work in January.  Sounds like it was a business meeting and not 5 friends talking.

If these guys have been friends for all these years and didnt feel right about something then they should have laid it all on the table.  Maybe this DID happen, but if MP felt that they werent buddies anymore, maybe they could have addressed those things in an attempt to fix them.

IMO the A7X WAS a problem for the other guys even if they dont say it as being a huge factor.  The other 4 guys LET MP handle stuff and take care of stuff for a long time.  If they wanted control back, then I am sure they could have (And ultimately did!).

MP and JM needed to get in each others faces and work it out. 

[lithium112]

Maybe a break wouldnt have been needed if the guys worked out their personal conflicts at the meetings to discuss the studio work in January.  Sounds like it was a business meeting and not 5 friends talking.

If these guys have been friends for all these years and didnt feel right about something then they should have laid it all on the table.  Maybe this DID happen, but if MP felt that they werent buddies anymore, maybe they could have addressed those things in an attempt to fix them.

IMO the A7X WAS a problem for the other guys even if they dont say it as being a huge factor.  The other 4 guys LET MP handle stuff and take care of stuff for a long time.  If they wanted control back, then I am sure they could have (And ultimately did!).

MP and JM needed to get in each others faces and work it out. 

You know, of all the guys in the band, I would be most scared if JM got in my face.

[rumborak]

The bashing of JM was totally unnecessary in that interview.

rumborak

[tri.ad]

The bashing of JM was totally unnecessary in that interview.

rumborak

In before: " How did MP bash JM in the interview?"

[rumborak]

It's of course up to interpretation, but he singled out a single member as the most antisocial. I count that as bashing. Others might not.

rumborak

[tri.ad]

Hey, it's not my opinion I stated. It's borderline for me, but not really bashing. However, I think that this try to be tactful was a bit out of place, since 1) it's probably commonly known who he was talking about and 2) standing up to what he said by being 100% honest (ie saying who it was) would have been better imo.

[Setlist Scotty]

and thanks phentalmyst. I got it.

If that's the case, then fine. The band wouldn't work with what MP wanted. Sounds to me there was a unified four guys that wanted to do one thing, and MP that wanted to do another. So again I go back to my original thought:

Dream Theater provides the living for five guys, and they are at their peak (other than PUll Me Under) in terms of commercial viability. Mike picking NOW to try and stop them is by far and away extremely unfair to the four other guys, who clearly are unified in wanting to continue. The band is bigger than Mike Portnoy.

I gotta laugh Brian - finally it's proven in print that MP DID offer up the idea of an interim drummer (a point you REPEATEDLY harped on both here and on your website, not knowing the facts), and yet you quickly "go back to [your] original thought." Just as you want MP to be honest, I think you need to be honest to the fact that you're looking to blame MP, who you have had issues with in the past. I might add that as far as I recall, you've never had issues with any of the other members of DT, so IMO you ARE looking to blame MP only for this whole thing, whether you're willing to admit it or not.

Let's not forget that while the other 4 guys are certainly involved in the decision making process, it wasn't as if MP was saying "I wanna take a break, so enjoy a yearlong (or more) vacation without any income coming in." He thought now would be a good time since each of the other guys ALL had projects outside the band that they could work on until they regrouped a year later. Would that have been the best idea purely in terms of financial success since DT has been riding a (relative) crest of popularity? No, but what he asked wasn't completely unreasonable. Additionally, the break of the album/tour cycle THE BAND agreed upon got thrown out the window with the tour opening for Maiden. Had they not done the tour (which isn't just the 5-6 weeks of them being on the road - there's a lot of behind the scenes preparation that is involved in setting up the tour that MP was no doubt involved with), then maybe MP wouldn't have gotten to the point that he felt the break was an absolute necessity. Yes, it's all speculation of what never was, but it's a reasonable possibility.

That said, I can't say that I blame the other 4 guys for wanting to continue on - the fact that they seem to be more popular than ever (barring perhaps 1993) is reason for them to want to continue full steam ahead. And seeing how Jordan and James were hanging out together on a regular basis, there is some reasonable question that all of the guys were distant from each other as MP suggested. Nonetheless, I'm sure that there was at least some truth to what MP said, but perhaps amplified from his viewpoint, especially (as someone else pointed out) when considering that the other bands he was touring with (that he pointed to in comparison) were bands that he hadn't played with before or hadn't played with for 8 or 9 years.

As for the suggestions that MP was the reason why JM kept to himself and didn't associate with the other guys, puh-leeze. If you ever met JM, you'd see he was just as soft-spoken and quiet as he has been stereo-typed to be. He has always been that way, and I can say that because I've met him dozens of times, going all the way back to 1993, and he's the same as back then. If JM didn't like MP or get along with him, he would have avoided MP, not the rest of the band! Regarding how MP played down JM's suggestion of the guys just jamming (on the audio commentary for WDaDR), I do recall that, so if anything, I find it slightly ironic that what MP was wanting is similar to what JM had previously suggested 6 years ago and MP had rejected - harkening back to "the good old days", altho in MP's case it's more of the guys hanging out between shows and not the getting together to jam (between albums/tours) that JM brought up.

One more thing: I do agree that MP referring to DT's legacy as something "I spent so long building and protecting" comes off sounding egotistical. However what should be taken into consideration is all that MP did do for DT and their legacy - far more than any of the other members, and perhaps just as much or even more than the other 4 collectively did in terms of stuff outside of recording and performing. So is there truth to what he's saying? Absolutely.

[Samsara]

I gotta laugh Brian - finally it's proven in print that MP DID offer up the idea of an interim drummer (a point you REPEATEDLY harped on both here and on your website, not knowing the facts), and yet you quickly "go back to [your] original thought." Just as you want MP to be honest, I think you need to be honest to the fact that you're looking to blame MP, who you have had issues with in the past. I might add that as far as I recall, you've never had issues with any of the other members of DT, so IMO you ARE looking to blame MP only for this whole thing, whether you're willing to admit it or not.

I wasn't going to reply again in this thread, but I have to, after Scott said this.

Not at all, Scott. I simply missed the fact that it was in the magazine. I thought MP's comments were the entirety of the subject. It wasn't until after I posted that I realized the answer was supplied by the other guys. I thought I made that clear above.

And yes, I go back to the MAIN, ORIGINAL point. And absolutely not, I am not looking to assign blame to ANYONE. I don't care really, who's "fault" the split is. Frankly, I don't care enough about Dream Theater at this point to care who started what. I just wanted, as a fan, the truth from both parties. If Mike is going to ask fans to "understand," then he owes fans ALL the info. That's all I am saying.

And to expect four other guys to roll over for him...I just don't think that's feasible, nor do I think it is fair.

Let's not forget that while the other 4 guys are certainly involved in the decision making process, it wasn't as if MP was saying "I wanna take a break, so enjoy a yearlong (or more) vacation without any income coming in." He thought now would be a good time since each of the other guys ALL had projects outside the band that they could work on until they regrouped a year later. Would that have been the best idea purely in terms of financial success since DT has been riding a (relative) crest of popularity? No, but what he asked wasn't completely unreasonable.

But the thing is Scott, the rest of the guys did not agree with Mike, and Mike walked. That's the point. Mike suggested something, the other guys disagreed and told Mike they want to press forward. Mike gave them Mike-less options, and the other guys didn't like them and made him make a decision. You can say that is right or wrong, but at the end of the day, Mike is the one that expected those guys to follow what he said, and then got upset and angry when they wouldn't go with what MP wanted.

Additionally, the break of the album/tour cycle THE BAND agreed upon got thrown out the window with the tour opening for Maiden. Had they not done the tour (which isn't just the 5-6 weeks of them being on the road - there's a lot of behind the scenes preparation that is involved in setting up the tour that MP was no doubt involved with), then maybe MP wouldn't have gotten to the point that he felt the break was an absolute necessity. Yes, it's all speculation of what never was, but it's a reasonable possibility.

First, I know enough about what goes on behind the scenes for tours, thanks. I didn't need the reminder my man.  Second, good point. That tour was probably a three-month commitment of time, total. But again, MIke thought a break was necessary, it appears to me the other four agreed to a short break, then as a band decided to go ahead and open for DT, and wanted to hit the studio in January like was originally discussed (as far as I know).

So in effect, you are saying MIKE FELT a break was necessary. Well, apparently the others guys are ready to roll. Four guys said go, one guy said no. It's a band.

And lets not be stupid regarding the income. Side projects and other bands do NOTHING for most of these guys. Dream Theater is a big business. It allows these guys to live the lifestyles they do with a nice living. We all know that. James' solo record, John's solo stuff, Myung doing Jelly Jam, all of that is spare change and just fun work. It won't pay the bills. So for Mike to think that the whole band needs to shut it down just because HE wanted them to, is a little ridiculous.

That said, I can't say that I blame the other 4 guys for wanting to continue on - the fact that they seem to be more popular than ever (barring perhaps 1993) is reason for them to want to continue full steam ahead. And seeing how Jordan and James were hanging out together on a regular basis, there is some reasonable question that all of the guys were distant from each other as MP suggested.

Exactly. I know you are close to MP, Scott. But did you ever stop and think that perhaps the strife and internal issues in the band were caused by MP? MP saying there are issues is fine, but if the band goes on and everything is fine, then it'll show that perhaps the problem in the band chemistry wasn't anyone else, it was Mike. No one knows that at this point, but it could very much be that Mike wore out his welcome with the other guys, because of his heated and OCD personality. Wouldn't be the first time that someone like that ended up being the problem, after they are thinking someone else might be.

Nonetheless, I'm sure that there was at least some truth to what MP said, but perhaps amplified from his viewpoint, especially (as someone else pointed out) when considering that the other bands he was touring with (that he pointed to in comparison) were bands that he hadn't played with before or hadn't played with for 8 or 9 years.

I don't doubt for a second there is some truth in what MP says. But it is all very colored and one-sided at this point, from what I have seen, publicly.

As for the suggestions that MP was the reason why JM kept to himself and didn't associate with the other guys, puh-leeze. If you ever met JM, you'd see he was just as soft-spoken and quiet as he has been stereo-typed to be. He has always been that way, and I can say that because I've met him dozens of times, going all the way back to 1993, and he's the same as back then. If JM didn't like MP or get along with him, he would have avoided MP, not the rest of the band! Regarding how MP played down JM's suggestion of the guys just jamming (on the audio commentary for WDaDR), I do recall that, so if anything, I find it slightly ironic that what MP was wanting is similar to what JM had previously suggested 6 years ago and MP had rejected - harkening back to "the good old days", altho in MP's case it's more of the guys hanging out between shows and not the getting together to jam (between albums/tours) that JM brought up.

I don't believe I actually said that, I think that was someone else, so I won't really comment here.

One more thing: I do agree that MP referring to DT's legacy as something "I spent so long building and protecting" comes off sounding egotistical. However what should be taken into consideration is all that MP did do for DT and their legacy - far more than any of the other members, and perhaps just as much or even more than the other 4 collectively did in terms of stuff outside of recording and performing. So is there truth to what he's saying? Absolutely.

MP did a lot for DT. Absolutely. And yes, the statement IS egotistical. I think folks will absolutely give MP the credit for helping build up DT to what it is. How can you not? But he HELPED build it.

Mike didn't need to say any of that. Everyone knows what MP did for the fans and did for DT's image with the fans. But he was just one part of that machine. JP wrote most of the music, a lot of the lyrics, and the band would be nowhere without the music itself. MP was part of a big thing, but only a part of it.

Thanks for the candor, Scott. Hope this respectfully clears up any misunderstandings. Talk to you (hopefully) next week.

B

[ariich]

Dude, not everything that happens will relate to things that you've experienced personally.

Dude, as cool as we are and stuff, I don't think anyone here has EVER made as many sweeping generalizations about my thought-process as you seem to (mainly, every time we disagree about something).   

Well, I was only going by what you said in your post. My point stands though, it's quite common in various different types of situation that people will take breaks/sabbaticals for one reason or another. Obviously this is a two-way process so relies on the employer/university/rest of the band/whatever agreeing to it. In this case they didn't.

But, the point is, Mike left. He wasn't kicked out. He left. Quit. It's that simple. Anyone who thinks that it's ambiguous as to whether Mike left or Mike was "kicked out" is reading against everything we've been told so far...

Mike wanted to leave, and the guys didn't want to and told him they'd go on without him if he was leaving. So Mike left anyway. What I don't get is why some people think it actually makes Mike look bad or something for leaving. It's okay guys, to admit that Mike left on his on volition 

See, this is what I don't think you're getting at the moment. I don't believe Mike was kicked out anymore than I believe he "quit", and it's not ambiguous whether it's one or the other. There is an option that is in between the two, where both parties came to a mutual agreement about the best thing to do going forward, and from everything we've read that seems to be the most appropriate way to describe the situation.

[atmyne]

here's something i found interesting the other day: replaying the studio footage of BC&SL on youtube. There's an interesting dynamic between Portnoy and the rest of the band that I would have never noticed before Portnoy left the band. Especially the one where John is explaining the structure of the song, and Portnoy is just going spastic lol. At first i thought it was just his sense of humor, or at least just his goofy nature. Retrospectively, he seems like he is being really difficult to get along with; very agitated and bored. and when he says "we've got the rest of the song and album all ready and done" (whilst rubbing his nipples lol), I now interpret that as "oh yeah guys we've churned out another album like it was nothing, i'm soo not into this DT shit anymore". And of course Jordan and JP are acting civilized and taking it seriously. I dunno what my point was here hahaha, but I thought this was interesting to consider, retrospectively: interpreting MPs behaviour on camera before and after the big news.

[phentalmyst]

Scotty, my point about JM had nothing to do with how he interacts with fans. I meant it regarding how he interacted with the band and viewed DT has a whole under MP's control. To me, JM is the consummate team-player and I think lately he's viewed DT more as a job and necessity than a creative outlet. I think the way MP ran the band slowly put JM into this mindset to where he doesn't interact with the band due to not feeling connected to it on a personal level anymore. The lyric rule is just one example of why I see it this way.

[Setlist Scotty]

Heh heh - I knew when I logged back on I have a response!     Just to set the record straight, the first part of my post (mostly the first paragraph) was directed at Brian, but the rest of the post was directed to everyone.  

I don't care really, who's "fault" the split is. Frankly, I don't care enough about Dream Theater at this point to care who started what. I just wanted, as a fan, the truth from both parties. If Mike is going to ask fans to "understand," then he owes fans ALL the info. That's all I am saying.

Not to play devil's advocate, but for someone who doesn't care enough about DT, you sure seemed to have been fired up about this whole thing since it happened. Just sayin'

And to expect four other guys to roll over for him...I just don't think that's feasible, nor do I think it is fair.

Agreed - and I don't think MP expected them to. MP knew that there would be at least some resistance to the idea, but I doubt he expected resolute resistance from all 4 of the other guys. And as such, MP was willing to adjust his request so that he wouldn't be forced out (see my earlier post in this thread regarding the gist of what went on between MP and the other 4 guys). But what he was able to offer to the band wasn't good enough in their eyes. So it was either cause more headaches between them or bow out. And considering what we know of the guy, let's not forget how difficult a task it was for him to leave, especially considering everything he had invested in the band.

But the thing is Scott, the rest of the guys did not agree with Mike, and Mike walked. That's the point. Mike suggested something, the other guys disagreed and told Mike they want to press forward. Mike gave them Mike-less options, and the other guys didn't like them and made him make a decision. You can say that is right or wrong, but at the end of the day, Mike is the one that expected those guys to follow what he said, and then got upset and angry when they wouldn't go with what MP wanted.

As I said in my last response, Mike did give them options - options that were NOT "Mike-less". Nonetheless, he was FORCED to make a decision by the rest of the band. (For the record, I'm not angry at them, just as I'm not angry at MP - I only wish the differences of opinion could have been resolved, regardless of whether a hiatus happened or not).

As for Mike getting "upset and angry when they wouldn't go" along with what he wanted, nothing is said of that sort. JP stated that Mike was a gentleman during the meeting. And I believe that to be the case - it was only after the reality of things set in that he became more upset over the issue.

First, I know enough about what goes on behind the scenes for tours, thanks. I didn't need the reminder my man.  Second, good point. That tour was probably a three-month commitment of time, total. But again, MIke thought a break was necessary, it appears to me the other four agreed to a short break, then as a band decided to go ahead and open for DT, and wanted to hit the studio in January like was originally discussed (as far as I know).

Well, the reminder wasn't just for you, but for everyone else who argued that DT was only on the road for a short time with Maiden.    As for the break, the band agreed to take the rest of 2010 off so that there would have been no DT activity after the end of March, save for making some plans for getting in the studio. So it wasn't going to be merely a short break, but the most lengthy break that they would have ever taken (aside from the period of limbo in 1996). That tour with Maiden took a big chunk out of that agreed upon break. Had the break happened, there would have been a full 5 months from the time the DT tour ended until they would have met up to discuss plans for the next album. Instead, it ended up being less than a month and a half since the Maiden tour ended, and by that time MP was in full tour mode with A7X (which, let's not forget, MP did with the rest of DT's blessing). As for who suggested the break in the first place, it appears that it was MP, but it didn't seem like the rest of the band had an issue with it, or else they wouldn't have canceled the headlining tour thru North America that they originally were going to do (before of course, the call from Maiden happened).

And lets not be stupid regarding the income. Side projects and other bands do NOTHING for most of these guys. Dream Theater is a big business. It allows these guys to live the lifestyles they do with a nice living. We all know that. James' solo record, John's solo stuff, Myung doing Jelly Jam, all of that is spare change and just fun work. It won't pay the bills. So for Mike to think that the whole band needs to shut it down just because HE wanted them to, is a little ridiculous.

The money certainly wouldn't be like what they earn in DT, but one thing you likely didn't know is that their money gets put into a sort of bank system so that they get paid a certain amount on a regular basis - it's not as if they get these huge checks while on tour and then get nothing when they're off the road. And I'd wager that there was probably enough money in that bank (or whatever) so that the rest of the band would still receive enough funds to last all of 2011 without running into financial problems. Had that not been the case, I doubt MP would have made the suggestion to take a lengthy hiatus.

I know you are close to MP, Scott. But did you ever stop and think that perhaps the strife and internal issues in the band were caused by MP? MP saying there are issues is fine, but if the band goes on and everything is fine, then it'll show that perhaps the problem in the band chemistry wasn't anyone else, it was Mike. No one knows that at this point, but it could very much be that Mike wore out his welcome with the other guys, because of his heated and OCD personality. Wouldn't be the first time that someone like that ended up being the problem, after they are thinking someone else might be.

It could be that he did cause stress on the rest of the band members with his maintaining control of many aspects, but in all honesty, do you really think it would have taken them a full 10 years before they would have addressed the issue? Give the rest of the band some credit! On top of that, I don't think MP is/was the dictator you (and others) suggest he is, since he was open to the suggestions, ideas and contributions of the rest of the band - in songwriting, lyric writing, JP taking care of the Forsaken video, etc. There is no doubt that MP definitely directed a lot of what went on in the band. But was it to the point of him being an oppressive dictator? Highly unlikely. It was more likely that he maintained a roll akin to that of a manager to those people in his department, giving them direction, suggestions, etc. but giving them freedom to create within that scope.

MP did a lot for DT. Absolutely. And yes, the statement IS egotistical. I think folks will absolutely give MP the credit for helping build up DT to what it is. How can you not? But he HELPED build it.

Mike didn't need to say any of that. Everyone knows what MP did for the fans and did for DT's image with the fans. But he was just one part of that machine. JP wrote most of the music, a lot of the lyrics, and the band would be nowhere without the music itself. MP was part of a big thing, but only a part of it.

Perhaps MP didn't need to say that, but I think he wanted it to be clear how much he invested into the band and he questions how much of the slack (especially in terms of stuff beyond writing the music/lyrics) they'll pick up since they were perfectly happy letting him do everything all those years. And for that reason, I don't blame him for what he said. And for the record, let's not for get that he did NOT say "I ALONE spent so long building and protecting" - he merely pointed out HIS involvement with building/protecting DT's legacy. There IS a difference between the two.

Talk to you (hopefully) next week.

Still planning on it.  

[Perpetual Change]

Exactly. Just to clarify for those who haven't seen the article here's a summary that follows what's been said:
Mike: Guys, I need a break and think it would all do us good. Let's go on an indefinite hiatus, and we can all work on various projects - JL on his solo album/tour, JP on his solo album, JM on the latest Jelly Jam and JR on the zillion things he's got going on at all times.
DT: No.
Mike: Okay. Then guys, let's take 2 years off.
DT: No.
Mike: How about a year and a half?
DT: No.
Mike: What about a year?
DT: No.
Mike: Guys, I really need a break, but if pushed, I'd be willing to do some work in 2011.
DT: That's not good enough.  We're going into the studio in January, with or without you.
Mike: Can't you just use an interim drummer in the studio and tour?
DT: Look, we're going into the studio, and we're not going in with a "temporary drummer," so if you aren't going in with us, I guess that's that.
Mike: So you're saying either I have to go into the studio against my will, or leave the band?
DT: Yes.
---a week later---
DT: We feel the same way we did before - we plan on going into the studio in January - are you going with us or not?
Mike: I feel the same way I did last week too. If I were to go into the studio in January, I'd be forced to do so against my will, my heart wouldn't be into it, not to mention it's not fair to you guys (since I would be putting in a half-hearted effort). So as hard as it is for me to do it, I guess I'm gonna have to leave the band since there aren't any other options open.

In that case, the more I think of it, the more I think the band could have saw this as an opportunity to break free from Mike running the show. Still short of "kicking Mike out," I wouldn't be surprised at all if they were extra-rigid with him just to make a point.

[KevShmev]

Here's a thought:

Maybe if the band had taken John Myung's advice, and they had went to back to jamming and writing ahead of time like in the old days, their personal relationships would have stayed strong enough to where Portnoy, who ironically was the one who immediately dismissed the idea, wouldn't have thought that they needed a break.  Hmmmmm.........

[tri.ad]

here's something i found interesting the other day: replaying the studio footage of BC&SL on youtube. There's an interesting dynamic between Portnoy and the rest of the band that I would have never noticed before Portnoy left the band. Especially the one where John is explaining the structure of the song, and Portnoy is just going spastic lol. At first i thought it was just his sense of humor, or at least just his goofy nature. Retrospectively, he seems like he is being really difficult to get along with; very agitated and bored. and when he says "we've got the rest of the song and album all ready and done" (whilst rubbing his nipples lol), I now interpret that as "oh yeah guys we've churned out another album like it was nothing, i'm soo not into this DT shit anymore". And of course Jordan and JP are acting civilized and taking it seriously. I dunno what my point was here hahaha, but I thought this was interesting to consider, retrospectively: interpreting MPs behaviour on camera before and after the big news.

While it sure is an interesting thought, I don't think that it holds that much value. In my opinion, it's likely that MP was goofing off rather as a show effect than as a representation of his behaviour during writing and recording. We don't know if he was like that all the time in the studio, and quite honestly, I don't think he was. It would have been very, very aggravating for the other DT members, for example.

[Setlist Scotty]

Exactly. Just to clarify for those who haven't seen the article here's a summary that follows what's been said:
Mike: Guys, I need a break and think it would all do us good. Let's go on an indefinite hiatus, and we can all work on various projects - JL on his solo album/tour, JP on his solo album, JM on the latest Jelly Jam and JR on the zillion things he's got going on at all times.
DT: No.
Mike: Okay. Then guys, let's take 2 years off.
DT: No.
Mike: How about a year and a half?
DT: No.
Mike: What about a year?
DT: No.
Mike: Guys, I really need a break, but if pushed, I'd be willing to do some work in 2011.
DT: That's not good enough.  We're going into the studio in January, with or without you.
Mike: Can't you just use an interim drummer in the studio and tour?
DT: Look, we're going into the studio, and we're not going in with a "temporary drummer," so if you aren't going in with us, I guess that's that.
Mike: So you're saying either I have to go into the studio against my will, or leave the band?
DT: Yes.
---a week later---
DT: We feel the same way we did before - we plan on going into the studio in January - are you going with us or not?
Mike: I feel the same way I did last week too. If I were to go into the studio in January, I'd be forced to do so against my will, my heart wouldn't be into it, not to mention it's not fair to you guys (since I would be putting in a half-hearted effort). So as hard as it is for me to do it, I guess I'm gonna have to leave the band since there aren't any other options open.

In that case, the more I think of it, the more I think the band could have saw this as an opportunity to break free from Mike running the show. Still short of "kicking Mike out," I wouldn't be surprised at all if they were extra-rigid with him just to make a point.

Re-read the this part of my last post:

It could be that he did cause stress on the rest of the band members with his maintaining control of many aspects, but in all honesty, do you really think it would have taken them a full 10 years before they would have addressed the issue? Give the rest of the band some credit! On top of that, I don't think MP is/was the dictator you (and others) suggest he is, since he was open to the suggestions, ideas and contributions of the rest of the band - in songwriting, lyric writing, JP taking care of the Forsaken video, etc. There is no doubt that MP definitely directed a lot of what went on in the band. But was it to the point of him being an oppressive dictator? Highly unlikely. It was more likely that he maintained a roll akin to that of a manager to those people in his department, giving them direction, suggestions, etc. but giving them freedom to create within that scope.

[atmyne]

here's something i found interesting the other day: replaying the studio footage of BC&SL on youtube. There's an interesting dynamic between Portnoy and the rest of the band that I would have never noticed before Portnoy left the band. Especially the one where John is explaining the structure of the song, and Portnoy is just going spastic lol. At first i thought it was just his sense of humor, or at least just his goofy nature. Retrospectively, he seems like he is being really difficult to get along with; very agitated and bored. and when he says "we've got the rest of the song and album all ready and done" (whilst rubbing his nipples lol), I now interpret that as "oh yeah guys we've churned out another album like it was nothing, i'm soo not into this DT shit anymore". And of course Jordan and JP are acting civilized and taking it seriously. I dunno what my point was here hahaha, but I thought this was interesting to consider, retrospectively: interpreting MPs behaviour on camera before and after the big news.

While it sure is an interesting thought, I don't think that it holds that much value. In my opinion, it's likely that MP was goofing off rather as a show effect than as a representation of his behaviour during writing and recording. We don't know if he was like that all the time in the studio, and quite honestly, I don't think he was. It would have been very, very aggravating for the other DT members, for example.

yeah after watching it again, I somewhat agree with you. Still... going through some of this footage from SC and BC&SL, you can detect some moments of passively aggressive tension, particularly between MP & JP/JR, which is no where near as apparent in footage from BearTracks ala SFAM/SDOIT making-of footage

[ariich]

Here's a thought:

Maybe if the band had taken John Myung's advice, and they had went to back to jamming and writing ahead of time like in the old days, their personal relationships would have stayed strong enough to where Portnoy, who ironically was the one who immediately dismissed the idea, wouldn't have thought that they needed a break.  Hmmmmm.........

An interesting though, and possibly true. Quite ironic if so.

[hefdaddy42]

The thing that I don't get is that if MP insists that the musical relationship was fine, but it was the interpersonal relationships that needed work...why would he think a break would be a good idea?  No personal shit gets solved by separating away from each other.  He should have wanted to get together and solve whatever issues there were, not take a break.

[Lowdz]

A7X are booked to tour until the end of March. MP is having fun in a popular band. DT want to go into the studio in January. He can't be in two places at once (though he nearly was this year with 3 gigs in three countries with three bands!). I maintain that this is the likliest reason why MP needed a break from DT. The rest of the band want to get going. the rest seems like excuses to justify his position.
MP by his own admission believed he would get his own way. Bluff called. The worms have turned! And the meek shall inherit the earth...

[rumborak]

Re-read the this part of my last post:

It could be that he did cause stress on the rest of the band members with his maintaining control of many aspects, but in all honesty, do you really think it would have taken them a full 10 years before they would have addressed the issue? Give the rest of the band some credit!

People stick out things a looong time because they think it's still better than the alternative. I see that every day at work with my old work group. The guy who runs the group is the same personality; incredibly controlling and running a ridiculously tight ship. The guys under him stick around because they figure they have nothing better to go to. But as with DT, it's slowly but steadily turning sour.

Actually, yesterday I was wondering whether the side projects could have been "testing waters" for the rest of the band to see whether they could create a second leg to stand on.

rumborak