Bands that became better after losing a leading founding member ( like Mike)

[EPICVIEW]

I'm having trouble thinking of a band that "became better" after losing a founding member and cant think of one that did 25 years into their career..

Please help think of them..

[Adami]

Any band that lost an original member that became better?

Rush?
The Beatles?
Iced Earth?
Metallica?
DREAM THEATER?!?!
Kamelot?
Nightwish?


I could seriously go on for quite a while.


I think you should change out "founding member" to "band leader". It might make a better point.

[EPICVIEW]

Any band that lost an original member that became better?

Rush?
The Beatles?
Iced Earth?
Metallica?
DREAM THEATER?!?!
Kamelot?
Nightwish?


I could seriously go on for quite a while.


I think you should change out "founding member" to "band leader". It might make a better point.

Rush? cmon peart was there pretty fast

The Beatles? again see above

but that was an interesting list I guess..debatable but a start

[Cool Chris]

Yes, if we modify this to founding member who had the presence of leadership this would be more interesting.

Pink Floyd. Sorry Syd, but you fading into drug-induced obscurity was the best thing that could have happened to the band.

[EPICVIEW]

ok..I changed the title to fit the groups thoughts here.. and its good point it should be more of "founder/leader"...

good one on Syd.

but the other variable is 25 years in...

Id say losing its leader after say 10 years ( the band would be established by then) but its all good as far as ones thoughts..

[eric42434224]

Better is subjective.  They will most assuredly be different.  And after the last few albums, I may be finally getting what I wished for.  Something different.  Its a shame that it has to take something like this to bring it about.

[ReaperKK]

Yes, if we modify this to founding member who had the presence of leadership this would be more interesting.

Pink Floyd. Sorry Syd, but you fading into drug-induced obscurity was the best thing that could have happened to the band.

This, I also think that losing Roger was a good move for PF. Gilmour did a great job with AMLOR and Division Bell.

[EPICVIEW]

Better is subjective.  They will most assuredly be different.  And after the last few albums, I may be finally getting what I wished for.  Something different.  Its a shame that it has to take something like this to bring it about.

agreed its subjective..

Im just trying to process Mike leaving, and thinking of a band that became "subjectively better" without that leader/founder

[ScioPath]

A7X?

[EPICVIEW]

a few popped into my mind

Scorpions ( UJR leaving)

UFO ( Schenker leaving)

but im not sure thats good either as Schenker was only there for a short time and to me they did get better, and Id argue Scorps was better with UJR...subjectively

[EPICVIEW]

A7X?

only time will tell..

[EPICVIEW]

The Stones ...maybe...hmmm

[Bombardana]

Opeth, when all the original band members left apart from Mikael and David Isberg

[ZBomber]

I dunno if I'd consider it "better", but Genesis put out a lot of great records after Gabriel left.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I like the Nightwish example. They lost they're trademark Tarja voice, but became a very different band and somewhat more rockin' and better soundin'. (IMHO, of course)

[EPICVIEW]

I dunno if I'd consider it "better", but Genesis put out a lot of great records after Gabriel left.

good one.. you can argue they got better, certainly more popular..

[LudwigVan]

Before Ozzy quit and Dio came on, Sabbath did Technical Ecstasy and Never Say Die!   When Dio joined, we got Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules, so the effects there were immediate and dramatically for the better (at least in the relatively short-term of 2 album releases).

[Seventh Son]

Iron Maiden.

Steve Harris is the only founding member left, unless Dave Murray was still there as well at the beginning.

[EPICVIEW]

Before Ozzy quit and Dio came on, Sabbath did Technical Ecstasy and Never Say Die!   When Dio joined, we got Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules, so the effects there were immediate and dramatically for the better (at least in the relatively short-term of 2 album releases).

interesting.. cool albums for sure..but it never felt 100% right to me..but I loved those 2 albums when they came out.. but Ronnie had been around...it felt like he lent his voice to Sab, and it was only 2 albums

[EPICVIEW]

dare I say the Ramones? lol..Tommy leaving for Marky..lol

[zxlkho]

A lot of these cannot be compared to DT because they only have 1 primary songwriter, like Iron Maiden with Steve Harris. With DT it was more of a team effort, so there's no real way to tell if they will be better or worse because of losing Mike.

[Seventh Son]

Before Ozzy quit and Dio came on, Sabbath did Technical Ecstasy and Never Say Die!   When Dio joined, we got Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules, so the effects there were immediate and dramatically for the better (at least in the relatively short-term of 2 album releases).

interesting.. cool albums for sure..but it never felt 100% right to me..but I loved those 2 albums when they came out.. but Ronnie had been around...it felt like he lent his voice to Sab, and it was only 2 albums

He rejoined to do "Dehumanizer" in 1995. And if you want to consider it a Sabbath album, you also have The Devil You Know in 2009.

[EPICVIEW]

Iron Maiden.

Steve Harris is the only founding member left, unless Dave Murray was still there as well at the beginning.

Murray was there from my memory.. since Killers for sure...

but IM more thinking of bands with say at least 5 albums with the founder and then him leaving..etc..and the band having a "second life" that was better..

Genesis is a good one ...The Stones...

[EPICVIEW]

Before Ozzy quit and Dio came on, Sabbath did Technical Ecstasy and Never Say Die!   When Dio joined, we got Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules, so the effects there were immediate and dramatically for the better (at least in the relatively short-term of 2 album releases).

interesting.. cool albums for sure..but it never felt 100% right to me..but I loved those 2 albums when they came out.. but Ronnie had been around...it felt like he lent his voice to Sab, and it was only 2 albums

He rejoined to do "Dehumanizer" in 1995. And if you want to consider it a Sabbath album, you also have The Devil You Know in 2009.

good point..but still not the same

[ddtonfire]

Genesis

[Seventh Son]

Iron Maiden.

Steve Harris is the only founding member left, unless Dave Murray was still there as well at the beginning.

Murray was there from my memory.. since Killers for sure...

but IM more thinking of bands with say at least 5 albums with the founder and then him leaving..etc..and the band having a "second life" that was better..

Genesis is a good one ...The Stones...

Maiden has 2 albums with Di'anno before firing him. Sure, he's not a founding member, but he was their vocalist on their first two albums (And while he isn't a major songwriter, you'd be silly to say that Paul's voice was not a major characteristic of their first two albums). Then he got canned and they changed their sound to accompany Bruce Dickinson, and things moved rather smoothly for them thereafter.

[EPICVIEW]

 ^^I saw Maiden back then with Paul D.. they used to open for Judas every year..
but I still dont see it as a comparison..

but Killers was a great Album..awesome ..still a fav

[guysullavin]

I will personally slap anyone who says Queen and/or Freddie Mercury

[EPICVIEW]

I will personally slap anyone who says Queen and/or Freddie Mercury

LOL me too.. but there is really nothing after Freddie as far as albums..

[Seventh Son]

I will personally slap anyone who says Queen and/or Freddie Mercury

LOL me too.. but there is really nothing after Freddie as far as albums..

Queen + Paul Rodgers

[ShadowWalker]

Despite a constant rotation of members, Yes managed to have a long and successful career.

Genesis, better is subjective, but they definitely became more successful.

Pink Floyd, twice.

I do enjoy the post Neal Morse Spock's Beard, but your milage may vary on this one...

[LudwigVan]

Anyone like Face Dances and It's Hard?

[Summers]

Nightwish?

HGHIAAFUIA *pulls hair out*

Nah I kinda see how they can be better without Tarja because the band seems to have so much more chemistry and is a lot happier now.  But, I will always miss that woman's voice.  And her air guitar. 

[ariich]

A lot of these cannot be compared to DT because they only have 1 primary songwriter, like Iron Maiden with Steve Harris. With DT it was more of a team effort, so there's no real way to tell if they will be better or worse because of losing Mike.

Bingo. In one of the other threads people were making comparisons to Spock's Beard and Stratovarius, but Neal Morse and Timo Tolkki wrote all the music for those bands, so it's not remotely comparable.

[bosk1]

A few that come to mind:

-Sabbath after losing Ozzy:  Not that the output with Ozzy wasn't great, but the Dio years were, IMO, superior.
-Faith No More after losing...I forget the original singer's name:  Mike Patton.  'nuff said.
-Van Halen after losing DLR:  I know this one is controversial, but I consider their output with Sammy to be FAR superior.  Tighter playing.  Stronger songwriting.  Better singing.  Etc.
-Metallica after Mustaine left:  And I like Mustaine a lot and like Megadeth a LOT better than I like Metallica.  But the run from Ride through the Black album was a lot stronger in every department than when Mustaine was in the band.  And even if you take Ride out of the equation and lump it with the first few albums (which is fair since Mustaine wrote on most of it), I still think that holds up.
-The Scorpions example already cited.
-Def Leppard after Pete Willis was booted:  The Steve Clark/Phil Collen era was magic, even if it wasn't as hard-edged as when Willis was in the band.
-AC/DC after Bon passed:  Brian Johnson took the band up a notch.  (but I don't like AC/DC, so whatever)
-Britney Fox after Dizzy Dean was kicked out:  Tommy Paris was a better singer and songwriter.  Not sure about whether he was a better guitar player, but he held his own in that right.  Anyway, the band as a whole was better with Tommy.

I won't bother with bands like Whitesnake or Megadeth since those were basically one-man-shows with a supporting cast.