Album Lengths

[setrataeso]

A comment was made in the "BC&SL - One Year Later" thread about how when DT tries to surpass the 70-minute length on an album, the added minutes become filler.
So, I ask all you gentle-folk out there: Is DT better off using the extra CD space, or should they pull back a bit?

[King Postwhore]

For somebody comming from the age of albums where you could only get 45 minutes at the max, length doesn't bother me.

[Darkes7]

Every DT album starting from Awake is >70 minutes.

I don't have any problem with the album lengths, they're one of the (rather few) bands that have mastered the ability of creating long songs and long albums.

[lateralus88]

I can only think of 2, maybe 3 songs, where I feel the instrumental sections to a song seemed like added filler. None of those songs are on BC&SL.

[Plasmastrike]

I believe album length is relatively irrelevant. Now if you investigate the effects of song length wants/obligations, then you might be onto something.

[kirbywelch92]

Every DT album starting from Awake is >70 minutes.

This, so this isn't something new that DT is trying with BC&SL. A lot of that album is filler IMO, but if you look at Six Degrees (which is an hour and a half long) I don't really believe any of that album is filler, whereas some would probably disagree. I think it matters how it's approached musically, I doubt DT is just trying to make sure every album is past 70 minutes.

[pogoowner]

I don't care about the length of the album, but obviously some of their songs have been longer than necessary and could have been trimmed down.

[The Letter M]

Every DT album starting from Awake is >70 minutes.

I don't have any problem with the album lengths, they're one of the (rather few) bands that have mastered the ability of creating long songs and long albums.

And if they had their way back then, "A Change Of Seasons" (in it's then-current 20-minute length) would've brought Images And Words to about 77-78 minutes long. As it stands, here's how the band's album's lengths evolve:
51:25
57:03
75:00
78:12
77:06
96:13
69:23
75:45
78:33
75:25

The average length of their albums is 73:24.

SDOIT was 23 minutes longer than average, but then TOT ended up being 4 minutes shorter, which isn't so much. I've grown used to them putting out 75 minute albums, and to be quite honest, I'm surprised they haven't produced another 2-disc set yet.

-Marc.

[setrataeso]

Ok, so would a better question be; should DT make a shorter album next time?

[Jamesman42]

They should pull back any unnecessary parts of songs. One thing I do like about a lot of their earlier albums (even up to 8VM, sorta) is that the song always progressed.

SC and BC&SL (an album I don't like and an album I love) both have a bit of repetitiveness going on, even in some songs I love (Constant Motion, Repentance, A Nightmare to Remember, A Rite of Passage).

Then again, some songs I love keep progressing from those two albums (ITPOE, TDEN, TSF, TBOT, TCOT).

Length of an album doesn't bother me as much as filler does. And it's happened a bit since *VM, where it seemed OK because of their approach.

[antigoon]

Don't they just write until they have 70 minutes of material nowadays? I think if they wrote more and included less we'd have a better product.

[Gadough]

Dream Theater are one of the only bands that can get away with having albums exceeding 70 minutes. Most of the time, I prefer it when albums are under an hour. But with DT I've come to expect > 70 minutes, so if they made one shorter it would seem too short by their standards.

[orcus116]

Definitely pull it back. I remember back when Octavarium was coming out Portnoy had a poll on his forum asking if people wanted a tight 60 minute album or a full 80 minute album. Obviously everyone chose 80 minutes. But imagine if that extra 20 minutes were axed? The Answer Lies Within, Never Enough, and I Walk Beside You probably would've been the first B-sides since SFAM and the album as a whole would've gone from just mediocre to really solid.

Granted length honestly isn't DT's biggest problem but it's been a long time since they utilized it to its potential. I'd love to see what they'd do with a 60 minute album because they might actually have to a *GASP* cut some things out that don't fit.

[robwebster]

I can't say I've ever listened to a Dream Theater album and thought "this'd be great if there were less music on it."

Dream Theater are too album-oriented to really "do" filler. Falling Into Infinity's the closest they've flirted with it, and in fairness that was more due to executive meddling than the songs being intrinsically weak per se. You Not Me is a nice enough song but fairly filler-y. You Or Me, on the other hand, has a lot of strength and billows a bit more.

One fella up-thread (can't remember who) said that Black Clouds and Silver Linings had too much filler. ...Where?! It's only got six songs, one of which is an obligatory grand finale to a suite, two of which are the centrepieces, two of which are the carefully focused singles, and then The Best of Times is anything but filler. For Mike that'd've been the most important bit.

The only bit I could really see anyone feasably cutting is a bit of meat off A Nightmare to Remember, and maybe tightening the screws on the instrumental section to A Rite of Passage. That'd come to about three minutes, max.

[jcmistat]

I don't really mind the length but they need more songs/variety for their next album. I think a lot of BC&SL can be cut and it would be a better album but that's my opinion. Having only 6 songs running @ 75:25 is too much especially for me since I only listen to half of the album. At least 8+ tracks would be the best.  

[Gadough]

I can't say I've ever listened to a Dream Theater album and thought "this'd be great if there were less music on it."

[tri.ad]

Generally, DT's albums don't contain as much filler as many other albums that exceed the 60-minute mark. And even the filler hardly consists of whole songs, but rather some chunks in several songs.
In my opinion, DT doesn't necessarily need to cut back the album length for the sake of cutting back (although, as a listener, 75 minutes tends to be a bit much).

I think that DT's next album will exceed the 70-minute mark anyway, unless we get a huge surprise (on which I'm not banking).

[King Postwhore]

It's not about length, it's about girth.

[Dublagent66]

It's not about length, it's about girth.

  Actually, it's about both but girth is more important.   

[robwebster]

...are you trying to tell us something?

[Chagny]

The next album will be a 2-disc set, and will essentially be 110 minutes of You Not Me played repeatedly, mixed with the screams of dying camels and parakeets.

[setrataeso]

The next album will be a 2-disc set, and will essentially be 110 minutes of You Not Me played repeatedly, mixed with the screams of dying camels and parakeets.

what is this is dont even...
just no
no
no
stop
no
what?
no

[tri.ad]

The next album will be a 2-disc set, and will essentially be 110 minutes of You Not Me played repeatedly, mixed with the screams of dying camels and parakeets.

I will buy it and I will love it.
/fanboy

[darkshade]

m the one who made the comment the OP is talking about (nice to see im sparking discussion so quickly!)

SC could definitely utilized less disc space (i hate Prophets of War, otherwise a great album)

whats funny though is i enjoy every track on Six Degrees, maybe they SHOULD do another 2-disc album, concept album, and total prog rock record!

[Silver Tears]

I can't say I've ever listened to a Dream Theater album and thought "this'd be great if there were less music on it."

[ZKX-2099]

Go listen to Year Of The Black Rainbow if you want to see what "cutting the fat" does.

Doesn't matter any way. They are gonna do what the want. And 8 out 10 of us are gonna love it.

[Fuzzboy]

I prefer shorter albums (45-55 mins), but DT seems to make it work.

[Adami]

The length isn't a problem, it's 75 minute albums consisting of 7 songs. That tends to be more of an issue for me. I feel so unfulfilled after 7 songs, despite how long the album is. 12 songs or so would do much more.

[ZKX-2099]

There is also a money issue for me.

I feel ripped off paying 15-20 dollars for a CD thats only 45 minutes long.

[PlaysLikeMyung]

The length isn't a problem, it's 75 minute albums consisting of 7 songs. That tends to be more of an issue for me. I feel so unfulfilled after 7 songs, despite how long the album is. 12 songs or so would do much more.

This

And it still amazes me that CDs still, after all these years, have an 80 minute limit

[ZKX-2099]

The length isn't a problem, it's 75 minute albums consisting of 7 songs. That tends to be more of an issue for me. I feel so unfulfilled after 7 songs, despite how long the album is. 12 songs or so would do much more.

This

And it still amazes me that CDs still, after all these years, have an 80 minute limit

Fucking a. How can they fit all of the live DT performances on one DVD but they have to spread them on 3 CDs?

[The Letter M]

The length isn't a problem, it's 75 minute albums consisting of 7 songs. That tends to be more of an issue for me. I feel so unfulfilled after 7 songs, despite how long the album is. 12 songs or so would do much more.

This

And it still amazes me that CDs still, after all these years, have an 80 minute limit

Fucking a. How can they fit all of the live DT performances on one DVD but they have to spread them on 3 CDs?

If people weren't so picky about sound quality (lossy vs. lossless), you could fit hundreds of mp3s on to a CD... Just saying.

-Marc.

[ZKX-2099]

The sound quality on live concert DVDs isn't poor.

[The Letter M]

The sound quality on live concert DVDs isn't poor.

I never said they were. Besides, DVDs are built to hold over 4 gigs of information, whereas CDs are only built for about 800 megs of info, roughly 20% of that of a DVD. It's just the way the media differs. Same with VHS vs. Cassette tapes - most VHS tapes could hold up to 6 hours of video (although the quality degraded at the length), but audio Cassettes only held about 90 minutes for most albums back in the 80's.

Video media is just made to hold more, and it seems it always has been and probably always will be, especially now that video has moved into high definition with Blu-Ray becoming more and more popular/common. I'm not sure how much more hi-def audio media can get given the current means that audio is able to be played through.

-Marc.

[ZKX-2099]

But unlike a VHS and cassette DVDs and CDs are the same size.