"Growl" Style Vocals by Portnoy in DT

[Samsara]

Simple question. Do you want MORE or LESS "growl-style" lead vocal sections by Mike Portnoy on future Dream Theater releases?

No, there isn't an option for "about the same," and there is a reason for that. If you had to choose, would you want more or less of it by MP?

[rumborak]

Let's see whether we can get a single "yes" in this poll.

rumborak

[PlaysLikeMyung]

I don't care, to be honest. If it fits the song, then it's fine with me

[sammmuk]

I voted less, but that's because I prefer the songs where it's not needed as much and miss JLB's higher singing

[bosk1]

Since they don't have any growl-style vocals (other than the ANTR unreleased clip MP posted a while back), that makes the question hard to answer.  

But assuming you are referring to the harsh vocals on ANTR...that's still a tough one for me to answer.  I kind of feel like we have enough.  But by the same token, when they're done extremely well as they have been in the past (call and response on TGP, reverse call and response in TSF, tradeoff in Contant Motion, heavy section in ANTR), they really compliment James well and add a lot to the songs.  Still, I guess (sorry if this is stream of consciousness...I'm sort of working through this and forming my answer as I type) since BCSL has harsh MP vocals on three of the six songs (if you count some of the backing stuff on AROP), I suppose "more" really would seem unnecessary, which only leaves me with the "less" option, so...yeah, that.

But interesting to note that the question in the poll is really skewed to really only get "less" votes.  I wouldn't think very many people, even those of us that LOVE MP's vocals, are likely to say they want "more" than 3 songs per album's worth.

[Samsara]

The poll is to make a point, bosk1. The point is (and I knew this) that if given the choice for DT to pursue as you call "harsh" vocals by Mike Portnoy, fans wouldn't want that.

If any and all growl vocals were taken out of DT music, barely anyone would complain. 

[bosk1]

Oh, I know.  I get where you are going.  But it's still tough to really give the answer I feel is best, so I'm definitely going to voice why it's a tough question to answer.  The purpose of the explanation wasn't to bust your chops.  It just so happened that that was a secondary benefit. 

[Samsara]

Oh, I know.  I get where you are going.  But it's still tough to really give the answer I feel is best, so I'm definitely going to voice why it's a tough question to answer.  The purpose of the explanation wasn't to bust your chops.  It just so happened that that was a secondary benefit. 

Jerk.   

[reneranucci]

I don't care, to be honest. If it fits the song, then it's fine with me

[sammmuk]

The poll is to make a point, bosk1. The point is (and I knew this) that if given the choice for DT to pursue as you call "harsh" vocals by Mike Portnoy, fans wouldn't want that.

If any and all growl vocals were taken out of DT music, barely anyone would complain. 

Prove a point that a skewed poll makes me look stupid?

[j]

I don't care, to be honest. If it fits the song, then it's fine with me

-J

[robwebster]

I don't know. It's a tough choice, really.

I mean, argument for yes, is that logically that'd mean we'd get more James LaBrie. And there's no such thing as too much James LaBrie; what a talented man. Pleasure to listen to.

On the other hand though, MP's gruff vocals do add a fair bit to DT's sound, and I do love backing vocals. Counterpoint, harmonies, I can't get enough of backing vocals done well. And I can't imagine they'd be gratuitous. There's a good history of bands with very strong backing vocalists - Queen immediately come to mind, or Nightwish more recently and less influentially - and it'd open up a lot of cool paths. They've barely scratched the surface of the potential. Imagine if they wrote more songs like Don't Look Past Me! That'd be wonderful.

DT are very talented, and I'd probably lap it up either way. I think employing less MP vocals would be playing it safe. More MP would be more of a stab in the dark.

Yeah, I'm gonna say more BVs. Progressing rather than regressing. 'citing.

[Samsara]

The poll is to make a point, bosk1. The point is (and I knew this) that if given the choice for DT to pursue as you call "harsh" vocals by Mike Portnoy, fans wouldn't want that.

If any and all growl vocals were taken out of DT music, barely anyone would complain. 

Prove a point that a skewed poll makes me look stupid?

That wasn't the intent at all. And its not skewed, it just doesn't allow for fence sitters (like all the people saying "I don't care" in this thread, who won't vote). It makes people pick, which proves a point.

[Perpetual Change]

I don't mind them, but less.  James is the singer. I like listening to him sing.  I don't mind listening to Mike, and I like his singing, but if I have to choose between James singing and Mike singing, I'll always pick James.  Even on the heavy parts.

[bosk1]

...it just doesn't allow for fence sitters (like all the people saying "I don't care" in this thread, who won't vote). It makes people pick, which proves a point.

Point taken.  But seriously, it also doesn't allow for the very legitimate, "I honestly feel that what they've been doing feels roughly 'just right,' so neither 'less' nor 'more' would be entirely accurate."  I mean, I've fine picking between "the lesser of two evils" (I better be, since I vote in the general election every four years), but I really feel that's what this poll is forcing me to pick as opposed to picking what I feel to be the most accurate description of my position on MP's vocals.

[bodiesinflight]

I vote dump JLB and get Mike doing all the vocals and then gradually turn DT into an Opeth tribute band

[Samsara]

Point taken.  But seriously, it also doesn't allow for the very legitimate, "I honestly feel that what they've been doing feels roughly 'just right,' so neither 'less' nor 'more' would be entirely accurate."  

Problem with that is that regardless of how people might actually feel, the fence sitters will pick that. Sorry bosk, while I absolutely see what you are saying, I think there wouldn't be many "legitimate" votes that everything is "just right." That's why the poll was done the way it was. Like I said, I see what you are saying, but my response would be, adding that third option would skew the honesty even further...

I mean, I've fine picking between "the lesser of two evils" (I better be, since I vote in the general election every four years), but I really feel that's what this poll is forcing me to pick as opposed to picking what I feel to be the most accurate description of my position on MP's vocals.

I hear ya, but the thing is, YOU would be honest. You truly would be. I just don't have faith that many people on here would honestly answer it. They'd pick "just right" to not make a stand. But 16-2 as of this writing tells the tale, even if it is a little skewed.

[Jamariquay]

This thread will end in hot sex tears.

[ariich]

There's no option for "whatever suits the music".

[XianL]

I agree with Bosk's initial post. I really like MP's rough vocals in TSF, TGP, Constant Motion, etc. ANTR is a bit weird with Mike singing all alone, but I can dig it. As long as James remains their main vocalist on *all* songs....I suppose I'm happy with the amount that Mike does as is.

[Rafael Guerra]

I really enjoyed it when he has the duets with Labrie in the AA saga, but when he sings whole sections of the songs, it just doesn´t feel too right (IMO)...

[OperantChamber]

I think they should re-release ANTR with full blown death metal growls.
While they're at it, release the real Raw Dog with the God of War samples at the end.
And the rest of the discography - redone to include some black metal screams, pig squeals, and some of those weird gurgles.

Ok maybe not the last part. They should do whatever they feel fits the music.
But I love the good occasional growls.

[hefdaddy42]

Samsara, I get your point totally.

I want less.

[LudwigVan]

Sorry Samsara, but I don't get the point of this poll.

To me, the 'growled' vocals are just like another instrumental aspect of Dream Theater music.  So to that end, asking if I'd like more/less 'growly' vocals is akin to asking me if I'd like more/less saxophone... or continuum... or wah-wah pedal.  All of these are used to add texture or emphasis to certain parts.  Would I like to see all of these musical effects being used on future DT albums?  Absolutely I would, why not.  Would I like to see growls or sax or continuum on every single album or song?  Not necessarily.

[Mebert78]

Less.  I'm one of those people that prefers the "beautiful" DT songs as opposed to the harsher balls-and-chunk DT that MP has been creating.  The growl voice epitomizes the balls-and-chunk side that I dislike, IMO.

[ReaPsTA]

I like that you're being provacative Samsara, but I can't bite, because I think the poll is missing the point.

There's no option for "whatever suits the music".

It sounds like a contrived overly-intellectualized cop-out explanation, but I think it's absolutely correct. The Glass Prison would take a significant hit quality-wise if the MP vocals were removed. Same with A Rite of Passage. On the other hand, I really don't think they work in The Count of Tuscany. I don't like the approach he went with in A Nightmare to Remember (should have went full on with the death voice IMO). Constant Motion is very iffy vocally, but that's because it's written to suit James Hetfield than James LaBrie or Mike Portnoy.

Writing a song is like constructing a building. Different vocal choices improve or detract from the aesthetic and structural qualities in different ways. It's important to make the right choice for that situation.

[bosk1]

I really don't think they work in The Count of Tuscany.

Oh, wow.  I completley forgot about that.  (although that is definitely a backing vocal, and the poll gets at lead vocals--same with AROP)  Hmm...I hadn't really thought about it, but while I don't dislike them there, I don't think they are necessary either, and the song would probably be at least as good if they were all a regular harmony instead of Mike doing the more aggressive vocals. 

I fully agree with you on TGP (and same with the parallel, but reverse call and response on TSF).

[GuineaPig]

I like that you're being provacative Samsara, but I can't bite, because I think the poll is missing the point.

There's no option for "whatever suits the music".

It sounds like a contrived overly-intellectualized cop-out explanation, but I think it's absolutely correct. The Glass Prison would take a significant hit quality-wise if the MP vocals were removed. Same with A Rite of Passage. On the other hand, I really don't think they work in The Count of Tuscany. I don't like the approach he went with in A Nightmare to Remember (should have went full on with the death voice IMO). Constant Motion is very iffy vocally, but that's because it's written to suit James Hetfield than James LaBrie or Mike Portnoy.

Writing a song is like constructing a building. Different vocal choices improve or detract from the aesthetic and structural qualities in different ways. It's important to make the right choice for that situation.

I can entirely understand liking the vox on TGP, but the vocals on AROP are even more grating to me than the bebot solo.

[blackngold29]

More I guess, but not too much.

[contest_sanity]

Yes - because that would mean more "heavier" DT, which I love.

[Setlist Scotty]

Most people know my stance on cookie monster vocals, so I won't say anything more. However, what I do find absolutely hilarious is that MP's vocals on TGP are being lumped in with the pseudo-cookie vocals in ANtR, TDEN, etc. MP's vocals in TGP are clean, just like in SDVu! 

[antigoon]

I think MP and JP should be utilized more to create nice harmonies like they did so well in Scenes.

[XianL]

I think MP and JP should be utilized more to create nice harmonies like they did so well in Scenes.

My Train Of Thought (Nugget) :

Yeah, I agree. ---> Hey, wouldn't it be cool is JMX joined in on the harmonies? ---> But he's The Silent Man... ---> Then how crazy would it be for him to sing?!

[antigoon]

He's probably a Castrato.

[LordCaptainMcKlockenstein]

Less.

Mostly because I don't think that MP really has that great of a singing voice or he doesn't utilize it all that well, at least not lately.