About the various movements in DT songs

[black_biff_stadler]

Outside of listening for the lyrics and significant changes in the mood/riff structure of the songs how do you go about figuring out EXACTLY when each movement in their songs begins? I just wanna be able to have a clearer understanding of the musical discussions that go on when people analyze these songs.

Are there sources online with timestamps for these or do I need to go and get my liner notes and start guessing?

[Super Dude]

I mean it varies from song to song, but the most frequent indicators seem to be major time signature and key changes.

[petrucci07]

Outside of listening for the lyrics and significant changes in the mood/riff structure of the songs how do you go about figuring out EXACTLY when each movement in their songs begins? I just wanna be able to have a clearer understanding of the musical discussions that go on when people analyze these songs.

Are there sources online with timestamps for these or do I need to go and get my liner notes and start guessing?

Which parts are confusing you? I think they're all pretty straightforward.

[RoeDent]

Outside of listening for the lyrics and significant changes in the mood/riff structure of the songs how do you go about figuring out EXACTLY when each movement in their songs begins? I just wanna be able to have a clearer understanding of the musical discussions that go on when people analyze these songs.

Are there sources online with timestamps for these or do I need to go and get my liner notes and start guessing?

I am so glad I'm not the only one interested in this.

I have my own idea as to where individual movements begin and end; it might be similar to others, then again it might not. Take Octavarium as an example:

I. Someone Like Him (0:00-8:47)
II. Medicate (Awakening) (8:48-13:49)
III. Full Circle (13:50-18:27)
IV. Intervals (18:28-19:51)
V. Razor's Edge (19:52-24:00)

I used to have Intervals beginning about a third of the way through the lengthy instrumental break after 'Find I've come full circle', but I prefer to include the entire break as part of Full Circle.

[black_biff_stadler]

Which parts are confusing you? I think they're all pretty straightforward.

Most of them in just about all songs with multiple movements. I hardly know any DT lyrics by heart since JLB is easily my least fave member despite the fact that I've been a fan since '99. Another reason is that I don't care about lyrics in general. Since '96 only four bands have held my title of Favorite Band (in order: Metallica, Death, DT, Opeth) and Metallica is the only one in that group that even has one song I know the lyrics for all the way through.

The main reason I wanna know where the movements begin/end is so I won't be so confused when trying to participate in threads that specifically break the songs down as part of the discussion.

[petrucci07]

Which parts are confusing you? I think they're all pretty straightforward.

Most of them in just about all songs with multiple movements. I hardly know any DT lyrics by heart since JLB is easily my least fave member despite the fact that I've been a fan since '99. Another reason is that I don't care about lyrics in general. Since '96 only four bands have held my title of Favorite Band (in order: Metallica, Death, DT, Opeth) and Metallica is the only one in that group that even has one song I know the lyrics for all the way through.

The main reason I wanna know where the movements begin/end is so I won't be so confused when trying to participate in threads that specifically break the songs down as part of the discussion.

Well, you can usually tell when the section changes because the musical feel or key changes, or a new riff (exclusive to this new section) is introduced. For exmaple, in Octavarium, Medicate starts when that beautiful bass riff starts.
Some sections are hard though, like XII. Responsible in TSF. I think it starts when the riff from Responsible starts under JP's solo, while others might argue that it starts when LaBrie starts singing.

[black_biff_stadler]

Some sections are hard though, like XII. Responsible in TSF. I think it starts when the riff from Responsible starts under JP's solo, while others might argue that it starts when LaBrie starts singing.

Good example.

[The Letter M]

Some sections are hard though, like XII. Responsible in TSF. I think it starts when the riff from Responsible starts under JP's solo, while others might argue that it starts when LaBrie starts singing.

Good example.

The Twelve-Step Suite is a very good example of figuring out where movements begin and end, but it's particularly difficult with TGP and TSF. To me, Step III begins at about 9:43 after the descending unison, and the bass guitar plays by itself to set the new meter and tempo.
In TSF, the final step, Step XII, begins after the "Razor's Edge" rising part, just before JP's solo when the TROAE riff begins at about 9:19.

Although most of these movements are pretty easy to figure out, some of them ARE pretty open to interpretation unless anyone in the band says otherwise.

-Marc.

[Global Laziness]

Some sections are hard though, like XII. Responsible in TSF. I think it starts when the riff from Responsible starts under JP's solo, while others might argue that it starts when LaBrie starts singing.

Good example.

Yeah, I usually find the movement divisions pretty straightforward, but that one immediately struck me as being pretty tricky.

[Chico]

The movement in the new album is ridiculous!!!

[darkshade]

Which parts are confusing you? I think they're all pretty straightforward.

Most of them in just about all songs with multiple movements. I hardly know any DT lyrics by heart since JLB is easily my least fave member despite the fact that I've been a fan since '99. Another reason is that I don't care about lyrics in general. Since '96 only four bands have held my title of Favorite Band (in order: Metallica, Death, DT, Opeth) and Metallica is the only one in that group that even has one song I know the lyrics for all the way through.

The main reason I wanna know where the movements begin/end is so I won't be so confused when trying to participate in threads that specifically break the songs down as part of the discussion.

Well, you can usually tell when the section changes because the musical feel or key changes, or a new riff (exclusive to this new section) is introduced. For exmaple, in Octavarium, Medicate starts when that beautiful bass riff starts.
Some sections are hard though, like XII. Responsible in TSF. I think it starts when the riff from Responsible starts under JP's solo, while others might argue that it starts when LaBrie starts singing.

I would say it starts when the The Root Of All Evil main riff comes in.

[johncal]

You just get used to the changes in movements from listening over and over, but you can count off most of the stuff by using the time signature right before the change. In other words on 4/4 (1-2-3-4,1-2-3-4,1-2-3-4) it might change to the next movement at 3. Sometimes though they screw you up because for instance after they hit 3, they'll go to another time signature 6/8 for instance but only play 5 before changing again.