The "Apple Inc." Thread iPad Mini

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Because Apple.

Basically, yeah.

[425]

I'm not really an Apple user, but can someone here explain to me why Apple Pay would succeed, when the same technology (NFC) already didn't work well with Google Wallet? I remember trying it with my HTC One at a CVS store, and quickly realized that if you use a case on your phone, NFC won't really work.

To elaborate:

1) Ecosystem, Userbase and Partnerships

Though Android has a higher market share than iOS, a lot of that market share is in low-cost smartphones. In terms of top-of-the-line handsets, the iPhone is still king. So, Apple is selling more handsets with NFC than Google is. Apple will very quickly have a large number of users with Apple Pay on their phones, while Google does not. Because of this, the point I'm about to make, more intelligent negotiation, and brand recognition, Apple has already negotiated a set of Apple Pay partnerships with banks and retail chains and has widely publicized these. This will lead to more opportunities for users to use Apple Pay and more uses of it on the whole.

2) Privacy and Security

Google is, to put it quite frankly, a really sketchy company with this kind of thing. Google's revenue model is ad-based, so they make money off of selling user information to advertisers. Because of this business model, in which the real customer for Google is not users but advertisers, they have become completely desensitized to user privacy concerns. In contrast, Apple makes almost all their money off of device sales. Their customer is the user. Therefore, they are more responsive to user privacy concerns, and have recognized that this is a key point on which they can soundly defeat Google.

When Apple introduced Apple Pay, they devoted a significant portion of the time they spent on it talking about privacy. I think people would understandably have worries about putting their credit card or bank account information into a phone and putting an additional third party in the transaction between them and the seller. I think Apple has gone out of their way to address such concerns by stating that they will not store any information about transactions on their servers, instead keeping credit card information stored on the device in a dedicated chip. And, in fact, they've taken things a step further by assigning a device identification number to be used in transactions (along with a unique security code for each transaction) in place of credit card numbers. So beyond just taking steps to make the electronic payment system secure, they have actually made it MORE secure than using your plastic debit/credit card. That's a huge advantage over Google.

[rumborak]

I can see the argument of plain momentum, sure. But I don't see how they would circumvent the plain technological problem that NFC simply only works at *really* near field. If you have a case around your phone, chances are it won't really work.

[JayOctavarium]

We use  NFC at work... a Droid Mini and an S4 ... with Otterboxes on them. I guess if it gets popular enough the case manufacturers will start making more cases that work with NFC

[orcus116]

I think putting credit card information on a phone is an awful idea, no matter how secure they try to make it sound.

[JayOctavarium]

I think putting credit card information on a phone is an awful idea, no matter how secure they try to make it sound.

It's almost as bad as those phone wallets. Yes... Put your Phone, ID and Credit Cards all in one convenient to steal package...

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

The thing is that such advancements sound logical in terms of technological progress.

We don't live in a safe country/world? Well, that's a whole other story.

[rumborak]

MasterCard is planning on releasing this:

https://venturebeat.com/2014/10/17/mastercards-apple-pay-alternative-a-card-with-nfc-and-a-fingerprint-sensor/

I gotta say, if they can get it right, that would be my favorite choice.

[425]

I think putting credit card information on a phone is an awful idea, no matter how secure they try to make it sound.

I don't really see how it's any better or worse than carrying a physical credit card in your wallet. It's actually probably a bit better, because you can remote wipe the phone if it gets stolen.

[cramx3]

I think putting credit card information on a phone is an awful idea, no matter how secure they try to make it sound.

This.  That is my opinion as to why NFC is not really very popular and why Apple pay will also not be very popular.  I know for myself, and I am sure I am not the only one, but making your phone similar to a credit card is really not something I am interested in doing.  Phones are lost/stolen/borrowed way more than my credit cards are and to me, it feels like you are asking for someone to steal from you.

I have never used NFC so maybe there is some good security features that make my feelings about it null, but from an idealogy, I want my phone separate from my wallet.  I have never lost my wallet before, but I have lost a phone.  I've also handed over my phone to friends to use before, but I never hand over my wallet to people.

[Chino]

I'm sure people said the exact same thing about the physical currency to digital currency switch when credit cards first started becoming popular.


I'm more concerned about my bank's security than I am my payment information being on my phone. I'm all for NFC.

[cramx3]

I'm sure people said the exact same thing about the physical currency to digital currency switch when credit cards first started becoming popular.


I'm more concerned about my bank's security than I am my payment information being on my phone. I'm all for NFC.

Except your bank has protection and if it gets stolen then you are able to recover. You are probably right in the long term but I won't be adopting in the near future.

[Chino]

I'm sure people said the exact same thing about the physical currency to digital currency switch when credit cards first started becoming popular.


I'm more concerned about my bank's security than I am my payment information being on my phone. I'm all for NFC.

Except your bank has protection and if it gets stolen then you are able to recover. You are probably right in the long term but I won't be adopting in the near future.

But so does your phone. In order to use it you have to scan your thumb print. That's way more secure than someone watching you enter a 4-digit pin code and then stealing your card, or going to a register and just selecting "credit" as a payment option. If your credit card gets stolen and someone runs up charges (happened to me) the bank will reimburse you, or it won't process the transactions if you report it stolen. I don't see why this would work any differently. And unlike a credit card, if you lose your phone, you can pinpoint it to within feet via its GPS. Having your credit card on your phone is wayyy more secure and safe than having it on a card that you need to swipe. I remember when buying things on the internet first started taking off and you had people that would still go into stores because they felt their money wasn't safe enough floating around on the internet. Well, look what happened to brick and mortar stores thanks to Amazon. I bet within 5 years more people will use NFC than all other payment methods combined.

[cramx3]

I agree with your point about the future, but that doesn't mean NFC is secure now.  Those finger print security on the phones are not that great and already proven to be hacked.  Also, anyone who steals a phone now is going to know to turn off GPS and other tracking features if they are able to break into it quickly enough (unless you have one of those paid services that are much tougher to crack).  My credit cards stay in my wallet and never go into someone elses hand except a cashier.  My phone falls on the floor, gets used by friends/family/coworkers, gets serviced... That is where I see the biggest difference between a physically credit card and using a phone. 

[425]

But so does your phone. In order to use it you have to scan your thumb print. That's way more secure than someone watching you enter a 4-digit pin code and then stealing your card, or going to a register and just selecting "credit" as a payment option. If your credit card gets stolen and someone runs up charges (happened to me) the bank will reimburse you, or it won't process the transactions if you report it stolen. I don't see why this would work any differently. And unlike a credit card, if you lose your phone, you can pinpoint it to within feet via it's GPS.

Not only that, but, as I alluded to before, with the iPhone at least you can remote wipe your phone from your iCloud account. So even if someone manages to steal your iPhone and your fingerprint somehow, you can still just log onto your iCloud account and locate the phone and/or turn it into a brick. It's miles more secure than plastic cards. Consider that every time you pay with a card at a restaurant you are basically trusting that the server won't write down or photograph your card information. Fortunately since most people tend to be honorable in those types of situations that system usually works, but if you instead paid by NFC on a phone with a fingerprint reader? That's way more secure.

[Phoenix87x]

Question about unlocked phones and Iphones

I currently have virgin mobile. No contract or anything. If I buy an "unlocked" Iphone on amazon, can I just strait up use it on Virgin mobile. Does anyone know how that works?

[rumborak]

So, they revealed the Apple Watch. Man, $550 for a watch that doesn't even look all that nice. I wonder how many they will sell.

[Phoenix87x]

Apple is not what they used to be 

[kirksnosehair]

So, they revealed the Apple Watch. Man, $550 for a watch that doesn't even look all that nice. I wonder how many they will sell.

I could have sworn I saw the price of one of them was $379 - but even that is pretty pricey. 


That said, like everything Apple makes, they'll sell a metric shit-ton of these things in a few months. 

[orcus116]

I feel like they're really testing their loyal userbase with these prices. I didn't think the iPad was going to take off like it did but at least there is an argument that it is practical and functional in everyday life. A smartwatch is just a glorified toy, unless they've somehow found a way to spin it into being a necessity.

[Cable]

I feel like they're really testing their loyal userbase with these prices. I didn't think the iPad was going to take off like it did but at least there is an argument that it is practical and functional in everyday life. A smartwatch is just a glorified toy, unless they've somehow found a way to spin it into being a necessity.

This. And actually I stay away from iPads for this reason, because I did not see the point for me as a consumer. If my employer, now or a future one, decides to give me one to use, I will be all for it. But with my own money, no. I bought my wife an iPad, and she used it a lot for awhile. Then her phone got bigger, and the iPad is a spare device now. And to use a tablet as is (no ad ons) for any traditional productive work will lead to time wasted IMO. There is still something to be said for a full size, actual keyboard. Until dictation succeeds touch type speed, I'll stick with my tiny lapper.

I really enjoy the Mac I have, and an iPhone. And the next iPhone I choose may be a phablet or whatever, but I like a traditional computer, and an all in one personal device that can fit in my pocket. Having a watch just complicates it, and I cannot stand wearing a wrist watch. And one needs the phone to power the watch apparently. And that is then two devices to charge every night.

But yup, many Apple devotees will jump on, and somehow it will take it seems. :-/

[Chino]

So, they revealed the Apple Watch. Man, $550 for a watch that doesn't even look all that nice. I wonder how many they will sell.

I could have sworn I saw the price of one of them was $379 - but even that is pretty pricey. 

That said, like everything Apple makes, they'll sell a metric shit-ton of these things in a few months.

It's $550 for the fancier/office one. The sport verion (the one to the left in the image below) is $350. Either way, Pebble just unveiled their new models, the Pebble Time and the Pebble Time Steel. I backed the Time Steel on Kickstarter for $250. It doesn't have all the functionality of the Apple watch, but I think it is a far better product. Not to mention, it has a 10 day battery life and can work on both Android and iOS. I own the current generation Steel and never take it off (it monitors sleep information for me).



There is one thing I haven't seen addressed. I'd like to know how durable this Apple watch is. Every person I know with an iPhone has demolished a screen at one time or another. Is this watchface going to shatter if you bump your wrist too hard into something?

[cramx3]

I feel like they're really testing their loyal userbase with these prices. I didn't think the iPad was going to take off like it did but at least there is an argument that it is practical and functional in everyday life. A smartwatch is just a glorified toy, unless they've somehow found a way to spin it into being a necessity.

This. And actually I stay away from iPads for this reason, because I did not see the point for me as a consumer. If my employer, now or a future one, decides to give me one to use, I will be all for it. But with my own money, no. I bought my wife an iPad, and she used it a lot for awhile. Then her phone got bigger, and the iPad is a spare device now. And to use a tablet as is (no ad ons) for any traditional productive work will lead to time wasted IMO. There is still something to be said for a full size, actual keyboard. Until dictation succeeds touch type speed, I'll stick with my tiny lapper.

I really enjoy the Mac I have, and an iPhone. And the next iPhone I choose may be a phablet or whatever, but I like a traditional computer, and an all in one personal device that can fit in my pocket. Having a watch just complicates it, and I cannot stand wearing a wrist watch. And one needs the phone to power the watch apparently. And that is then two devices to charge every night.

But yup, many Apple devotees will jump on, and somehow it will take it seems. :-/

Well my job gave me an Ipad Air, I never use it.  Great device, but I only use it for reading and I havent had time to read like I used to so I dont use it.  Like you, Id never buy one at the price point and even given a free one, I dont use it.  However, I have two Samsung S5s, a macbook pro, a Sony ultra book, and my PC that I built, so I have enough technology that a tablet just doesn't do anything for me.


Chino, what do you mean your watch monitors your sleep?  Id be interested in a smart watch if it looked nice and provided some functionality to make it worth the price.

[Chino]

Chino, what do you mean your watch monitors your sleep?  Id be interested in a smart watch if it looked nice and provided some functionality to make it worth the price.

It's an application called Misfit. I can set a goal for how many hours of sleep I want. The watch somehow detects that you've fallen asleep, and the accelerometer monitors your movements throughout the night and it can detect when you wake up. It graphs my sleeping time throughout the week and even goes as far as telling you exactly how much time you spent in deep sleep. I use it as a pedometer as well.

The new Pebble Time and Pebble Time Steel will have this new accessory called Smart Bands. They allow thrid party developers to make watchbands that add functionality to the watch. This helps keeps the cost of the initial watch down by not including all kinds of hardware that only a fraction of your customers want. A company could make a band with a bigger battery, a gps built in, a blood/sugar reader, etc, and then build an app around it. It's pretty brilliant.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/597507018/pebble-time-awesome-smartwatch-no-compromises/description

[cramx3]

Very cool, that sounds interesting and Im very curious of my sleep patterns since I work lots of odd hours and hence get poor sleep.

[Chino]

Very cool, that sounds interesting and Im very curious of my sleep patterns since I work lots of odd hours and hence get poor sleep.

It's still in the infancy stages. I have a similar app on my phone that I've run at the same time as the watch. Both get similar numbers most of the time, but they can sometimes differ by as much as twenty minutes. I don't mind though. Technology has to start somewhere and I think it's cool being, for lack of a better term, a beta tester for it. You'll see this stuff improve greatly over the next five years. Right now the smart watch is kind of a novelty. I use mine all the time, but I wouldn't say my life has necessarily been improved by it. Once you start seeing legitimate health applications built into the watch, their potential is going to really shine.

[rumborak]

BTW, the iPad, to my knowledge, was a rather short-lived thing for Apple to make money on. I read somewhere a while ago that sales have totally collapsed. Partially because a lot of people realized that the use case just isn't really as great as everybody thought it would be.

BTW, this is what you get for $350 in the Android world:

https://consumer.huawei.com/minisite/worldwide/huawei-watch/

[cramx3]

BTW, the iPad, to my knowledge, was a rather short-lived thing for Apple to make money on. I read somewhere a while ago that sales have totally collapsed. Partially because a lot of people realized that the use case just isn't really as great as everybody thought it would be.

BTW, this is what you get for $350 in the Android world:

https://consumer.huawei.com/minisite/worldwide/huawei-watch/

That looks pretty nice, and Im an android user over IOS.  As for Ipad sales, I also have to think that people who bought them arent looking to upgrade them every year or so like we do with our phones.

[rumborak]

I just can't understand how Apple went for the rectangular design. The first time I saw a circular smartwatch I thought "yup, that's the way to go". Rectangular watches simply look like computers on your arm, or rather, like these guys:

[cramx3]

  totally had one of those as a kid

[rumborak]

So did I. Paid by my own pocket money!

[Chino]

BTW, the iPad, to my knowledge, was a rather short-lived thing for Apple to make money on. I read somewhere a while ago that sales have totally collapsed. Partially because a lot of people realized that the use case just isn't really as great as everybody thought it would be.

BTW, this is what you get for $350 in the Android world:

https://consumer.huawei.com/minisite/worldwide/huawei-watch/

The iPad was/is a huge success. People just don't need to upgrade as often as they do phone. I'm not upgrading my iPad2 until it becomes unusable.

[Big Hath]

I had one of these

[Implode]

Thought you were blob for a second there. 

I have an iPad mini, and I think Chino's right. iPad's were the laughing stock of the tech world when they were unveiled, now everyone uses them; they just don't get replaced as often. I can see the watches going either way to be honest. I can even see them going exactly the same was as the iPad. Why spend that much on a watch when you can use the money to get a better phone? But then in a couple years as the price goes down, more and more people will use them. We'll see.

[Xanthul]

I had one of these transformer watches too, so I guess they were universal (I'm from Spain).

I also have an iPad 2 and not thinking about upgrading it until it stops working. When it does I will probably get an Android one, I just don't want to spend so much money again.