Author Topic: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion  (Read 48728 times)

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Offline skydivingninja

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #70 on: December 03, 2009, 09:14:51 AM »
Wow, massive fail on my part  :facepalm:  Not sure what I was thinking, since I definitely put BOTR over Afterglow...maybe its because I used to listen to a Genesis mix with BOTR as a closer.

Offline mizzl

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #71 on: December 03, 2009, 12:46:52 PM »
How bout this top3:
1) The Lamb Lies Down
2) Foxtrot
3) Selling England

BTW, Genesis is the best them!

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #72 on: December 03, 2009, 12:52:25 PM »
skydivingninja, it's all good.  Even the best of us make blunders from time to time. ;) :)

It is so hard to rank the best Genesis albums, but SEBTP and The Lamb are definitely 1-2 for me.

Offline Orbert

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #73 on: December 03, 2009, 01:13:08 PM »
I never really got into SEBTP before, despite it having one of my all-time faves, "Firth of Fifth".  I grew up on Seconds Out, so the studio versions of "I Know What I Like (in Your Wardrobe)" and "The Cinema Show" were both somewhat disappointing.  The studio version of "The Cinema Show" is great... until the very end.  The Seconds Out version builds up to an amazing finale; the studio version fizzles back down into a reprise of the opening, almost-title track, which has never really thrilled me.  That track, and "The Battle of Epping Forest" cannot keep my attention, and are both mini-epics.

This has changed since the Nick Davis remasters.  I picked up the first two boxes a couple weeks ago when Amazon accidentally dropped their prices to $13.99 each, and I have been working my way through them.  There are tons of things I've never heard before, and in listening to this album again, I'm really finding a new appreciation for it.  I don't know if it will ever pass Nursery Cryme or Foxtrot for my favorite Gabriel-era album, but I definitely enjoy it a lot more now than before.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #74 on: December 03, 2009, 03:02:07 PM »
I've still never heard Seconds Out, despite it being a highly-regarded live record, but "The Cinema Show" on Selling England... is just Godly.  I can see why one wouldn't be wild about "The Battle of Epping Forest" that much, as it has that kind of silly, whimsy British thing going on, but I dig it.

Offline ddtonfire

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #75 on: December 03, 2009, 04:20:34 PM »
but "The Cinema Show" on Selling England... is just Godly.  

 :tup

Collins era is my favorite era but Cinema Show is my favorite song.

Offline LudwigVan

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #76 on: December 03, 2009, 04:50:04 PM »
Definitely worth it if you can get your hands on Seconds Out.
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Offline ytserush

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #77 on: December 03, 2009, 07:20:46 PM »
Seconds Out and Three Sides Live (or four sides if you prefer) continually battle it out for my favorite Genesis Live album.

I mean Gabriel-Genesis is OK (I guess you just had to be there, but I wasn't), but Genesis didn't really start to get interesting for me until Gabriel left (I love Gabriel's solo career).

How can you not like Bill Bruford on Seconds Out? And that tracklisting isn't too shabby either. I actually prefer the live interpretations of the Gabriel era material on this record. It's funny though. I never really got into Squonk until I heard Nick sing it with Spock's Beard as an encore about 10 years ago. I'm sure Phil two-timing with Brand X didn't hurt either.

Offline sirbradford117

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #78 on: December 03, 2009, 07:37:30 PM »
This has changed since the Nick Davis remasters.  I picked up the first two boxes a couple weeks ago when Amazon accidentally dropped their prices to $13.99 each...

Dude, srsly?  Where was I when that happened???
VOTE IN THE BEATLES SURVIVOR!!!!!

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Offline Orbert

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #79 on: December 03, 2009, 11:40:50 PM »
It was October 23.  I'm guessing that the prices for each of the three boxes were supposed to come down to where they are now (about 30% down from their original level, which was over $100 each), but someone screwed up and set them to $13.99 each.  That's the price of a regular single CD that meets certain conditions.  I jumped on the two, but passed on the third, which I realize now was a mistake.  For that price, it would've been worth it just to have all three boxes, every studio album except the first one (which Jonathan King still holds the rights to).  By time I changed my mind and went back later that day, they'd fixed their mistake.  So it was only like that for part of a day, but they honored the price and shipped them.

Strangeness:  They both came shrink-wrapped, but one of them had a Best Buy sticker on it.  The rectangular kind with the four little slits in it to make it come apart if you try to remove it in the store.  But this was shipped directly to me from Amazon.com.  I have no idea.

Offline sirbradford117

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #80 on: December 04, 2009, 06:43:12 AM »
Damn, sorry I missed it.  I have, however, heard mixed reviews of the new mixes.  Some think they are an improvement, some dislike the changes. 
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Offline skydivingninja

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #81 on: December 04, 2009, 07:41:19 AM »
Anybody see the 1970-75 box set was nominated for best surround sound at the grammies?

Offline Orbert

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #82 on: December 04, 2009, 07:49:05 AM »
Each album is not just remastered, but remixed, and that's a practice I do have some issues with.  The earlier releases benefit the most, because the sound is cleaned up a lot and you can hear of lot of subtlety you just couldn't hear before.  When they're strumming two 12-strings and a six-string (Banks played guitar on the earlier albums) they blend into a nice backdrop for the vocals and/or flute.  Now you can clearly hear each part.  The magic isn't removed or anything, and in some ways it even emphasizes the mastery these guys had at laying down patterns.  Also, I only have ancient vinyl editions, or first-run CDs, of the Gabriel-era stuff.  When I listen to the new mixes, it's not clear whether I'm hearing new things because everything's so much cleaner, or because he's messed with the mix.  Overall, I like the first box.  These albums have definitely never sounded better.

On the other hand, there are places where it seems Nick Davis said "I've always liked this riff; now is my chance to make it louder!"  On some of the later stuff, there seems to be overcompression, and that's just bad.  The idea that some parts are supposed to be quieter than others, as an artistic decision, is often lost since everything is now clearer and pushed to 10.  There are some great riffs and licks that are meant to be countermelodies and support, but now they're up front, and I think that's a mistake.  Genesis, at least up through the 70's, achieved a great sound by layering the parts, but not all parts had, or were supposed to have, equal volume.

Tony Banks approved the remixes, so Nick doesn't get all the blame/credit for this.  But while Tony obviously had a hand in creating the original music, it's possible that these mixes sound better to his ears just because they're a new take on work he did 30 or more years ago.  Sometimes just being different is better.

But the best news of all is that every album now has a 5.1 mix, which obviously provides greater separation of the soundstage and makes it even easier to hear individual parts.  I didn't know that about the Grammy nod, but it's not surprising.  A lot of work went into these mixes, and they do sound great.  Most albums have a number of video features as well.  Lost or rare concert footage, original videos, that kind of thing.  If you're a fan, these are at the very least quite interesting to watch.

Offline ytserush

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #83 on: December 04, 2009, 03:56:00 PM »
How long did that Amazon gaffe last?

I only picked up the second box when Best Buy screwed up and was selling it for $50 shortly after it came out.

Is there a web site that tracks these screw ups?

Offline Orbert

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #84 on: December 04, 2009, 09:00:40 PM »
It was only part of a day, several hours tops.  I follow a board that focuses on HD audio and video, and the Genesis remasters had a thread because of the 5.1 mixes.  I'd been thinking of getting either the Gabriel box or early Collins box, but had pretty much decided against the second Collins box because it only has four albums in it, and the later albums got pretty weak.  

When Amazon screwed up and set them all to $13.99, someone posted about it on the AV board, and I jumped on the first two boxes because those were the ones I'd been thinking about.  Later I realized I should just grab the third one anyway, but when I went back, they'd fixed it.

Offline mizzl

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #85 on: December 06, 2009, 03:48:02 AM »
SUPPERS READY!

Offline skydivingninja

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #86 on: December 06, 2009, 09:00:22 AM »
We watched in reverence
As Narcissus is turned to a flower...



A flower?

Offline Dr. SeaWolf

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #87 on: December 08, 2009, 01:58:39 PM »
We watched in reverence
As Narcissus is turned to a flower...



A flower?

I love that part :D.  Whenever I listen to that song, I always say "A Flower?" along with Gabriel.

Offline Dr. SeaWolf

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #88 on: December 09, 2009, 05:34:28 AM »
Question:  Are these box sets worth the full price?  I was thinking of getting them at some point.

Offline Mladen

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #89 on: December 09, 2009, 06:12:45 AM »
I love that part :D.  Whenever I listen to that song, I always say "A Flower?" along with Gabriel.
I love the section that comes after ''A Flower?'' part. It's just unbelievably good.  :hefdaddy

Offline Dr. SeaWolf

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #90 on: December 09, 2009, 06:14:34 AM »
I love that part :D.  Whenever I listen to that song, I always say "A Flower?" along with Gabriel.
I love the section that comes after ''A Flower?'' part. It's just unbelievably good.  :hefdaddy

Yeah, Willow Farm is my favorite part of Supper's Ready.

Offline mizzl

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #91 on: December 09, 2009, 07:23:34 AM »
Supper's Ready is definitely one of prog rock's pinnacles. All hail Peter Gabriel  :hefdaddy

Offline skydivingninja

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #92 on: December 09, 2009, 07:46:47 AM »
Dammit, I was hoping I could turn this thread into a Supper's Ready lyrical reenactment.  C'mon DTF!   ;D

Offline Zydar

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #93 on: December 09, 2009, 07:55:49 AM »
Hello babe with your guardian eyes so blue
Hey my baby don't you know our love is true

Offline mizzl

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #94 on: December 09, 2009, 08:14:46 AM »
Coming closer with our eyes, a distance falls around our bodies.

Offline skydivingninja

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #95 on: December 09, 2009, 08:16:28 AM »
Out in the garden, the moon seems very bright

Offline mizzl

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #96 on: December 09, 2009, 08:18:41 AM »
Six saintly shrouded men move across the lawn slowly.

Offline Orbert

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #97 on: December 09, 2009, 08:26:39 AM »
A seventh walks in front
With a cross held high in hand


Question:  Are these box sets worth the full price?  I was thinking of getting them at some point.

"Full price" continues to drop, so I suppose more and more people will be finding the answer to be "Yes".

If you're not super familiar with the original recordings, you will like these.  The sound is fantastic and it lets you clearly hear everything being played, and with Genesis music there's a lot of layering and interplay between the parts, so that's really a big deal.  The biggest problem the longtime fans have with them is that they aren't just remastered, but remixed.  There are now parts louder (and sometimes softer) than before, and that bothers people who have been listening to these albums for 30 years and now someone has messed with the mix.

But... it's not like he tweaked every single part of every single song.  Most of the time, I find them to be a great improvement.  It's only once in a while, maybe once every four of five songs, when I'll hear something that jumps out.

The real goldmine is the 5.1 mixes, the outtakes and B-sides, and all the video extras.  Every album has been mixed in 5.1, and if you have the means to play them (any standard DVD player through a surround system) they're pretty cool.

I'd say that if you don't already have most of the included albums, or are a big enough fan that the extras will mean something, and also have the financial means then go for it.

Offline skydivingninja

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #98 on: December 09, 2009, 08:27:09 AM »
AND ITS

Hey babe, with your guardian eyes so blue

Offline mizzl

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #99 on: December 09, 2009, 08:28:34 AM »
AND ITS

Hey babe, with your guardian eyes so blue
FAIL!

and its..
HEEY BABE, your supper's waiting for youhoo!

Offline skydivingninja

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #100 on: December 09, 2009, 08:38:14 AM »
 :facepalm: I am so full of fail in this thread.

Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #101 on: December 09, 2009, 08:50:37 AM »
I listened to Selling England by the Pound last night for the first time in ages. I know I'm going to sound like Captain Obvious here but...

... That record is soooooo good.
:TOX: <-- My own emoticon!

Offline mizzl

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #102 on: December 09, 2009, 08:52:49 AM »
I listened to Selling England by the Pound last night for the first time in ages. I know I'm going to sound like Captain Obvious here but...

... That record is soooooo good.
:hefdaddy

Offline PlaysLikeMyung

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #103 on: December 09, 2009, 08:59:40 AM »
I listened to Selling England by the Pound last night for the first time in ages. I know I'm going to sound like Captain Obvious here but...

... That record is soooooo good.


:biggrin:

Offline Zydar

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Re: Genesis Appreciation/Discussion
« Reply #104 on: December 09, 2009, 09:33:27 AM »
I listened to Selling England by the Pound last night for the first time in ages. I know I'm going to sound like Captain Obvious here but...

... That record is soooooo good.

:heart