Author Topic: The Savatage Thread  (Read 35462 times)

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Offline Dittomist

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #70 on: March 16, 2011, 04:51:43 PM »
I am glad that Savatage were able to release one amazing album after another for nearly 20 years and then finally find commercial success with TSO--those guys deserve nothing but the very best. Poets and Madmen is a brilliant final chapter (I agree, every track is strong) but I'll always be hoping for a new album.
And I thought the first four TSO albums were really impressive but man, was I ever disappointed with Night Castle. I guess my expectations were too high--they had been working on that album for so many years to the point where it was becoming Chinese Democracy 2. When they released the first single, "Night Enchanted," my hopes became even higher because the song was practically a gift to Savatage fans. I guess I expected more of that. Instead, I'd say about 75% of the album consists in overlong, monotonous Broadway-esque ballads, with very unappealing vocals. It reminded me of Meat Loaf in a lot of ways; normally, that's not such a bad thing but I expected a lot more from this album.

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #71 on: March 17, 2011, 03:33:27 AM »

If anyone listens to Caffery's Faces CD, it's easy to see that Caffery is an amazing lead guitarist.  I guess I always just felt a bit bad for him, being such an accomplished guitarist and not creating anything on cd.

Poets and Madman I must say is a Savatage highlight, damn I love that album.  Every song is just solid, a great feel and atmosphere and Jon sounds excellent.  


Caffery actually has songwriting credits on almost every song on Poets and Madmen, as well as a number of songs on Wake of Magellan and various TSO songs.  Between that and his contributions on various side projects (Doctor Butcher, Chris Caffery band, early Circle II cirlce), I think he is comfortable with accomplishments.  ;)

Interestingly, Poets and Madmen was originally intended to have ha both Zack and Jon singing leads, including duets on many songs.  As much as I love Jon's voice, I always felt having both singers in the band was a great artistic opportunity, and duel vocals on P&M would have been rather sweet....  :metal  Still an awesome album though.

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #72 on: March 17, 2011, 03:41:05 AM »
Dunno how that would have sounded really.  I listened to that album again today, and man, Jon is just perfect, I'm happy with just his vocals.

I'm listening to Dead Winter Dead at the moment.  Such a great album, great songs all the way through.  I forgot how good this one was.  Up to One Child at the moment.

Offline LudwigVan

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #73 on: March 18, 2011, 08:08:21 AM »
I'd gotten heavily into the earlier albums like Dungeons Are Calling, Hall of The Mountain King, Gutter Ballet and Edge of Thorns.   I find that there's a tinge of Megadeth/Queensryche to their early sound.

Anyway, it's probably time I give a listen to Dead Winter Dead, Wake of Magellan and Poets and Madmen.
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Offline Gadough

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #74 on: June 10, 2011, 09:47:40 PM »
I'm bumping this thread for Quadrochosis, who is a very big fan of this band. <3
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #75 on: June 10, 2011, 09:49:55 PM »
Every once in awhile, I decide to get into a classic rock band, mainly through buying the almost their entire discography for pennies on Amazon. I did this with Yes, Maiden, ELP, and a few other bands I know and love.

From Savatage, I only have Hall of the Mountain King but I absolutely adore it, especially for its tongue-in-cheek, "fun" metal characteristics. I'll get Streets next. After that, what do people recommend?

Offline Quadrochosis

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #76 on: June 10, 2011, 09:50:27 PM »
space cadet, pull out.
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Offline ClairvoyantCat

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #77 on: June 10, 2011, 09:51:30 PM »
After that, what do people recommend?

suicide

Offline Gadough

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #78 on: June 10, 2011, 09:52:05 PM »
Seth you were just telling me how you liked them, you big shoe.
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Offline Quadrochosis

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #79 on: June 10, 2011, 09:52:58 PM »
eldfkgsl no you, frew. I can't stand you sometimes
space cadet, pull out.
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Offline ClairvoyantCat

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #80 on: June 10, 2011, 09:53:38 PM »
Seth you were just telling me how you liked them, you big shoe.

I never said here that I didn't like them!  I was just recommending suicide, that's all.

Offline Gadough

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #81 on: June 10, 2011, 09:54:30 PM »
eldfkgsl no you, frew. I can't stand you sometimes

I know that's just the booze talking. <3

When you sober up, you'll come to your senses and realize how awesome Savatage is.
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Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #82 on: June 11, 2011, 07:14:21 AM »
Every once in awhile, I decide to get into a classic rock band, mainly through buying the almost their entire discography for pennies on Amazon. I did this with Yes, Maiden, ELP, and a few other bands I know and love.

From Savatage, I only have Hall of the Mountain King but I absolutely adore it, especially for its tongue-in-cheek, "fun" metal characteristics. I'll get Streets next. After that, what do people recommend?

Beware that Streets is a totally different Beast than Mountain King.  Mountain King was kind and end of an era for Savatage, after that, a more symphonic, musical and classical approach came out.  Streets is very rewarding after repeated listens.  Gutter Ballet is essential as is Edge of Thorns.  All Savatage is essential, just get Fight for the Rock last.

Offline Lowdz

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #83 on: June 11, 2011, 01:54:13 PM »
Every once in awhile, I decide to get into a classic rock band, mainly through buying the almost their entire discography for pennies on Amazon. I did this with Yes, Maiden, ELP, and a few other bands I know and love.

From Savatage, I only have Hall of the Mountain King but I absolutely adore it, especially for its tongue-in-cheek, "fun" metal characteristics. I'll get Streets next. After that, what do people recommend?

Beware that Streets is a totally different Beast than Mountain King.  Mountain King was kind and end of an era for Savatage, after that, a more symphonic, musical and classical approach came out.  Streets is very rewarding after repeated listens.  Gutter Ballet is essential as is Edge of Thorns.  All Savatage is essential, just get Fight for the Rock last.

I'll second all that.

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #84 on: July 10, 2011, 12:34:44 AM »
So after finishing my latest run-through of the entire Savatage discography today, I was listening to a mix of Jon Oliva's Pain, Circle II Cirlce, Doctor Butcher and Chris Caffery, and it got me thinking about something:  which members/associates of Savatage currently active would you consider to be necessary for a Savatage reunion?  Jon Oliva often says the reason why Savatage can't tour/release albums anymore is because so many Sava alumni need TSO to make a secure living.  The mighty 'Tage did go through a very large number of line-up changes over the years, and not all of them are full time members of TSO.  Pretty much all the members each had their own strengths as performers that they brought to the band and contributed mightily to the Savatage sound of their respective eras, however, few of them wrote much (if anything) for the band during their respective tenures, so they may not all be necessary for a new Savatage album.  However we would need at least enough guys to form a touring unit so the band could play live again.

Here's how I see it (official studio recording members only!):

1) Jon Oliva - Not only does he have writing credits on almost every Sava song, he also is the only individual to actually have participated in the creation of every album (even the ones released during his hiatus from 1991-94).  This man is Savatage.

2) Paul O'Neil - Paul gets a lot of shit from more old school 'Tage fans for introducing the band to classical and Broadway music, which resulted in a dramatic shift in style in the late 80's/early 90's.  However, from 87 onwards, he has writing credits on almost every Savatage song, and pretty much wrote all the lyrics to the last 3 albums.  Also, it goes without saying that it was those very classical/Broadway influences that ultimately defined the band in the long run and distinguished them amongst their peers.  Even Jon Oliva has said that Savatage before Paul was more like "Savatage in training."  I think Paul's involvement would be essential for a reformed Savatage.

3) Chris Caffery - Even though he was only on 4 Savatage albums, Caffery was a major influence in the band's later career, writing a good chunk of music on the last few Sava albums.  Furthermore, Criss Oliva took him under his wing back in 87-90, and it is pretty safe to say that Caffery is one of the few people that can truly do justice to the works of Criss live.  Considering that, I think it is pretty safe to say that these days, you can't have Savatage without Chris Caffery.

4) Zack Stevens - Zack is a tricky case.  On the one hand, he was only on 4 Savatage albums, and many of the 'Tage's most famous works did not involve him (Hall of the Mountain King, Gutter Ballet, and Streets).  Furthermore, he did not write anything during his stint in Savatage.  On the other hand, though, Zack's voice is synonymous with Savatage from 1992-2000, and his presence and distinctive vocal talents pretty much revitalized the band after they shot the full creative load on their opus, Streets.  The Edge of Thorns album alone is reason enough to serious consider him as a necessity for a true Savatage reunion, to say nothing of the other epic 3 albums he recorded with the band.

5) Johnny Lee Middleton -  Johnny is another strange case.  He was in Savatage from 1985-2002; longer then anyone save Jon Oliva himself.  However, his compositional contributions are minimal, and while he is one hell of a bass player, I think they could probably replace him with another and it would not affect the overall chemistry of the band too much.

6/7)  Steve Wacholz/ Jeff Plate - Both are superb drummers, but only one of them is really needed for this hypothetical reunion, and both have very slim writing credits.  I may give a slight edge to Wacholz since he was on the first 8 albums and he was also the original drummer of the band.  Ultimately, though, I don't think either is too essential.

8) Al Pitrelli - Another fantastic player who was in the band for a relatively brief period of time (6 years/ 3 albums), he helped write a few songs on Wake of Magellan, but according to Jon Oliva, he never really bonded with the band and was more of a hired gun from the start.

9) Alex Skolnick - Pretty much the same as Pitrelli, but he was only on one album and didn't write anything.

10) Keith Collins - Bass player on Sirens and Dungeons.  I bet a few of you didn't even know who he was!  :P

Also of note is Bob Kinkel.  He handled orchestration and some keyboards on Hall of the Mountain King as well as some of the later, more symphonic albums, as well as working as a studio engineer for the band on multiple albums.  Not actual a member per se, but like Paul O'Neill, he did contribute pretty mightily to crafting the signature Savatage sound.

Soooooo............... in conclusion, I think at the very least we need Oliva and Caffery in the band with O'Neill as a producer/ songwriter and Kinkel handling orchestration and engineering.  Other then that; I have a difficult time seeing them perform most of the 1992-2000 songs without Zack, so I would prefer it if he were part of any reunion (plus I love the possibility of him doing vocal trade-offs with Jon, like in the Japan 94 rendition of Gutter Ballet).  I would also prefer Johnny on bass, but despite his lengthy tenure in the band, I would be willing to accept a reunion without him.  The same goes for Wacholz, Plate, Pitrelli, Skolnick and Collins (I would think that between two second guitarists, two bass players and two drummers, the could get enough ex-Savatage guys together to make a complete band).  If the band needed to bring in new people to fill in those positions, however, I could live with that, although I would prefer these new people to be associated with one of the many Savatage off-shoots (TSO/JOP/CIIC/CC/DB) as well as former touring only members, such as Damond Jiniya and Jack Frost.

Anyways, please comment on this idea, as I would love additional input!
« Last Edit: July 10, 2011, 12:49:52 AM by The Dark Master »

Offline dongringo

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #85 on: July 10, 2011, 12:55:34 AM »
Sounds good to me.  :metal
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Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #86 on: July 10, 2011, 04:53:12 PM »
Jon Oliva
Chris Caffery
Doc
Johnny

If Doc is unavailable, Plate definitely is allowed to be there.

Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #87 on: July 10, 2011, 06:51:50 PM »
Zack Stevens is one of my favorite vocalists of all time.  I think he is really shining with CIIC.  Machines of Grace was another great release; fans of Zack should definetly check it out.  Obviously the Savatage discs, especially Edge of Thorns, are epic

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #88 on: July 10, 2011, 07:41:07 PM »
Zack Stevens is one of my favorite vocalists of all time.  I think he is really shining with CIIC.  Machines of Grace was another great release; fans of Zack should definetly check it out.  Obviously the Savatage discs, especially Edge of Thorns, are epic

I have been meaning to check out Machines of Grace.  That has Plate too I believe, sounds good.

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #89 on: July 10, 2011, 09:17:18 PM »
Jon Oliva
Chris Caffery
Doc
Johnny

If Doc is unavailable, Plate definitely is allowed to be there.

Include Zack in there, and yeah, that would be a great lineup for a "reunion" (still feels weird using that word for a band that technically never broke up but whatever).  Also, I would add that if they were to do a new Savatage album, Paul would be a necessity.  Of course, if we're just talking about a restoration of Savatage as a touring unit, and not actually doing a new record, then that would not apply.

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #90 on: July 10, 2011, 11:23:39 PM »
Yeah, my lineup was based on touring only.  I guess Zak could join in, him and Jon worked well together live.  For an album, I would also want Paul.  He definitely was a benefit to Savatage's style and sound, I really enjoy what he did for the band.

I was just thinking about a second guitarist, and I'm not sure if anyone else would be worthy to fill the slot in a reunion style setting.  Skolnik would be my first choice, he really gave a lot of his heart to Savatage IMO, I wish he stuck with them through the ninties period.  Al really, as you said was a hired gun and jumped ship when something better came along, I don't think he's necessary, even though I enjoyed the two albums, plus his additional solos on P&M that he worked on.

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #91 on: July 11, 2011, 02:18:40 PM »
You know, the more I think about this whole situation with Savatage, the more I begin to suspect that the only reason why Savatage doesn't play live anymore is because Jon is off having too much fun with JOP.  He's been asked a number of times if he would ever perform a Savatage set with TSO and he always shoots down the possibility because, according to him "that's not what I want to do with TSO".  It's no secret that he considers TSO to be more of a job and a way to pay the bills then anything else, but if he were maybe a bit more proactive in it, we may at the very least see more 'Tage songs being played at TSO shows (like the "reunion" that was originally planned for the European TSO tour this year, then canned when a relative of Jon's ended up in the hospital and he couldn't participate).  It's funny because he keeps telling people that TSO is the modern incarnation of Savatage, yet he seems to want as little to do with it as possible.  I sometimes wonder how different TSO may sound if Jon were as involved with it as he was with Savatage back in the Dead Winter Dead days.....

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #92 on: July 11, 2011, 06:41:48 PM »
HOLY SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EDqve8Pihw&feature=related

TSO played Chance on their spring tour!  Fuck!  I was gonna go to that too, but the show near me sold out really quickly.  Oh well, hopefully this is another sign that TSO will continue to resurrect more and more Savatage classics live! 

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #93 on: July 11, 2011, 08:16:41 PM »
HOLY SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EDqve8Pihw&feature=related

TSO played Chance on their spring tour!  Fuck!  I was gonna go to that too, but the show near me sold out really quickly.  Oh well, hopefully this is another sign that TSO will continue to resurrect more and more Savatage classics live! 

I will watch this later at home.  Chance has always been one of my fav 'Tage songs.  That vocal cannon type section is amazing.

Offline dongringo

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #94 on: July 11, 2011, 09:24:37 PM »
Wow! That was some clip of Chance. Thanks for sharing.
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Offline Gadough

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #95 on: July 28, 2011, 01:12:08 AM »
CHRIS CAFFERY Hot Sauce Coming Soon

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=161243

Quote
Guitarist Chris Caffery (TRANS-SIBERIAN ORCHESTRA, SAVATAGE) will soon release his first commercial hot sauce through High River Sauces. More details will be made available soon.

High River Sauces was started by music industry veteran, food junkie and heavy metal cookbook author Steve "Buckshot" Seabury. His cookbook titled "Mosh Potatoes - Recipes, Anecdotes & Mayhem From The Heavyweights Of Heavy Metal" (Simon & Schuster) is a collection of recipes from the biggest names in hard rock and heavy metal.

While putting together the cookbook, Seabury found that his passion for BBQ and hot sauces was shared by many of his favorite icons. After getting such a great response from his friends and family, he decided to start High River Sauces.

Seabury recently sat down with Mike Hultquist of Hot Sauce Madness, a web site that caters to fans of fiery foods and extreme hot sauces. They discussed his inspiration for creating new recipes, the tour sauces, goals for the future and his love of heavy music. You can read his interview and the review of the Hellacious Hot Sauce at this location.

High River Sauces has three different hot sauces that are currently available for purchase exclusively on this summer's biggest tours; the Willie Nelson Throwdown Country Tour (Hillbilly Hellfire Hot Sauce), the Vans Warped Tour (King Scott Hot Sauce) and the Rockstar Energy Drink Mayhem Festival (The Devils Blood Hot Sauce). Each hot sauce is an artisan sauce that promises to give fans who love fiery foods a unique culinary experience. Each recipe captures the finest ingredients, variety of spices and the hottest of peppers to bring you the exceptional blend of heat and balance of expressive flavor.

A portion of proceeds from each bottle sold on these summer tours will benefit the Unite The United Foundation. A charitable organization to help communities hit by natural disasters throughout the United States. Please check out the merchandise tables at these tours and pick up a couple of bottles.


lol
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Offline PowerSlave

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #96 on: July 28, 2011, 04:08:39 AM »
I've read through this whole thread and unless I just missed it nobody has mentioned Power of the Night. You may not have a 'tage thread and not mention that album. The title track, unusual and in a dream are amazing tracks. Some other great songs on there also.
All of this has happened before and all of this will happen again

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #97 on: July 28, 2011, 05:27:58 AM »
CHRIS CAFFERY Hot Sauce Coming Soon

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=161243

Quote
Guitarist Chris Caffery (TRANS-SIBERIAN ORCHESTRA, SAVATAGE) will soon release his first commercial hot sauce through High River Sauces. More details will be made available soon.

High River Sauces was started by music industry veteran, food junkie and heavy metal cookbook author Steve "Buckshot" Seabury. His cookbook titled "Mosh Potatoes - Recipes, Anecdotes & Mayhem From The Heavyweights Of Heavy Metal" (Simon & Schuster) is a collection of recipes from the biggest names in hard rock and heavy metal.

While putting together the cookbook, Seabury found that his passion for BBQ and hot sauces was shared by many of his favorite icons. After getting such a great response from his friends and family, he decided to start High River Sauces.

Seabury recently sat down with Mike Hultquist of Hot Sauce Madness, a web site that caters to fans of fiery foods and extreme hot sauces. They discussed his inspiration for creating new recipes, the tour sauces, goals for the future and his love of heavy music. You can read his interview and the review of the Hellacious Hot Sauce at this location.

High River Sauces has three different hot sauces that are currently available for purchase exclusively on this summer's biggest tours; the Willie Nelson Throwdown Country Tour (Hillbilly Hellfire Hot Sauce), the Vans Warped Tour (King Scott Hot Sauce) and the Rockstar Energy Drink Mayhem Festival (The Devils Blood Hot Sauce). Each hot sauce is an artisan sauce that promises to give fans who love fiery foods a unique culinary experience. Each recipe captures the finest ingredients, variety of spices and the hottest of peppers to bring you the exceptional blend of heat and balance of expressive flavor.

A portion of proceeds from each bottle sold on these summer tours will benefit the Unite The United Foundation. A charitable organization to help communities hit by natural disasters throughout the United States. Please check out the merchandise tables at these tours and pick up a couple of bottles.


lol


I really admire how some of the proceeds are going to charity.  That's pure class

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #98 on: July 28, 2011, 05:28:34 AM »
I've read through this whole thread and unless I just missed it nobody has mentioned Power of the Night. You may not have a 'tage thread and not mention that album. The title track, unusual and in a dream are amazing tracks. Some other great songs on there also.

A definite Tage classic.  I love that one.

Offline ZirconBlue

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #99 on: July 28, 2011, 11:39:21 AM »
I really admire how some of the proceeds are going to charity.  That's pure class

Yeah, but if they're already United why is there a Foundation set up to Unite them? ;)

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #100 on: July 28, 2011, 03:59:57 PM »
I really admire how some of the proceeds are going to charity.  That's pure class

Yeah, but if they're already United why is there a Foundation set up to Unite them? ;)

Whoa!

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #101 on: August 17, 2011, 08:53:16 PM »
I found this interview with Damond Jiniya while browsing Blabbermouth's Savatage-related interviews.  Very interesting stuff in here about his time in Savatage and all the stuff that happened post-2003 with the constant reunion rumors and Jon's constant dismissal of them.  Now I know it's BM and they love stirring up trouble, but what Damond says in here makes a lot of sense in light of Savatage's past decade of inaction.  Sounds like there was a lot of shit going on behind the scenes with Jon and Paul kind of pussyfooting around on the whole Savatage thing while building up TSO.  I am probably going to comment more on this later, but at the moment I'm not entirely certain how I feel about all this:

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=159149

Offline LieLowTheWantedMan

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #102 on: August 18, 2011, 08:02:58 PM »
I've only heard In the Hall of the Mountain King (the song).

 :metal :metal :metal :metal

Offline Gadough

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #103 on: August 18, 2011, 11:14:03 PM »
YOU NEED STREETS RIGHT NOW.

Hell, everyone needs Streets.

In other news, I'm listening to Dead Winter Dead right now...it's so good. Goddamn this band was amazing.
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Offline LieLowTheWantedMan

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #104 on: August 18, 2011, 11:14:29 PM »
I'm considering getting that album soon.