Author Topic: The Savatage Thread  (Read 102624 times)

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Offline bl5150

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #595 on: January 16, 2016, 11:36:18 PM »
extensive interview with Jon here , conducted just before Christmas.

https://squintyt4e.livejournal.com/50850.html


I haven't read it all yet but he pretty much puts Savatage to bed from what I'm getting.
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #596 on: January 17, 2016, 03:49:45 AM »
Not really, but he says that IF they were to do another Savatage show, it should be as big as Wacken, a monumental event like playing at the Coliseum in Rome or something. He's brutally honest in saying that he does not care at all for playing in front of 1000 people in random clubs across Europe.

In the interview he says something I already knew, that when Christmas Eve Sarajevo was a Savatage song no one gave a shit about it, when they sold the exact same song as TSO it went number 1, that was it for Savatage basically, he couldn't keep two bands going at the same time while one was snubbed because it was "that heavy metal band from the '80s", and one was going multimillionaire with huge selling tours. In his eyes Savatage died anyway when Criss died, he kept it going only to honor his memory as long as he could.

Since it's the first time I pop in this thread, I may as well declare my deep love and appreciation for everything Savatage. I don't currently listen to them but there was a time when they probably were, basically, my "favorite" band, and I still regard it as a wonderful band that made awesome albums and songs. It's a shame they couldn't be as big as Metallica (Jon says in the interview they could have but managers screwed them up with bad business decisions) and carry on after Poets and Madmen, but Jon says he was writing more TSO-like stuff anyway.
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Offline bl5150

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #597 on: January 17, 2016, 06:11:16 AM »
I get that they might do the odd show here and there , but to me that's not a "going concern."

Anyway..........looking forward to reading the whole thing. 
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Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #598 on: January 17, 2016, 08:07:09 AM »
I think I would rather him officially shut the band down for good instead of always making these vague statements about the future of Savatage

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #599 on: January 17, 2016, 08:31:18 AM »
In the interview he's pretty clear, he's old so he doesn't want anymore to: 1) tour in clubs in front of 1000 people 2) play and sing full out heavy metal.

He says he would be up for a bigass Savatage show like the Wacken one, but that's it, there won't be any other Savatage album (unless it will be an acoustic outtakes collection) or any other tour with him in it.
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Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #600 on: January 18, 2016, 08:48:30 AM »
Well, I suppose this is as good a time as any to make my grand return to DTF  :P

To be perfectly honest, a lot of what Jon says in that interview has been said before, albeit not in so much detail (I actually did not know about him losing his house, his cars, and his wife while trying to keep Savatage alive).  He has made it very clear over the years that he feels Savatage effectively ended when Criss died, that he considers TSO to be the evolution of post-Criss Savatage, and that with TSO being so popular, there is no reason to keep Savatage active as a separate entity (conversely, that's also why he won't actually say Savatage is dead and buried, because to him it's just a continuation of the same band anyways).  I don't think Wacken was that last we will see of Savatage.  I'm sure TSO will continue to bring more Savatage songs back into their setlists, and we may even see a TSO tour where there is a Savatage set in the show, with Jon and Zak singing some of the classics we all love (like what was discussed for the 2011 Beethoven's Last Night tour).  But I never expected for a second that Savatage would actually go out on the road playing clubs.  That was never going to happen.

Now I am a bit disappointed that it looks like there won't be a new Savatage record.  I think Zak might have misread what Jon meant when he said he was writing the best music since Gutter Ballet or Streets.  I still don't think it's completely off the table, as Jon has said he was up for maybe doing some new Savatage material.  But I think the issue is, as I have pointed out here before, why even bother releasing such new songs as Savatage when they could just release them as TSO and make a lot more money?  Between TSO and Jon's solo/JOP stuff, he probably sees Savatage as being kind of redundant.  It's a damn shame, because I feel those late-era Savatage records had an excellent balance of metal, symphonic and Broadway elements that neither TSO nor JOP ever fully captured (although Beethoven's Last Night came damn close).  But while I may not be entirely happy with the situation, I get what he means about not wanting to be trapped in a box where he feels he needs to write music for a certain crowd and then go out on tour and sing "Sirens" every night.  And, as I have also said here before, given how much of himself Jon poured into Savatage over the course of 20 or so years, I don't really feel right asking him for more.  If he ever wants to do it, I will be there ready to tell him to "Shut up and take my money!", but beyond maybe some more Savatage-centric TSO tours like the Wacken show, I don't really feel like I should expect any more out of Savatage.

At any rate, I have high hopes for Jon's future work.  Letters from the Labyrinth was pretty good, but much like Night Castle, it felt a little light compared to some of TSO's previous works.  I am very eager to hear Romanov, however, as Jon has said that is a rather dark record, and very much in the vein of Dead Winter Dead or The Wake of Magellan.  I am also curious to hear what Jon has in store for his JOP/solo band.  Last I heard, he wanted to make the heaviest album of his career, so that should be interesting to see.  I know he has also talked about doing something with guest singers, and he also mentioned that he still has a bunch of 70's retro-prog-rock-esque material left over from making Raise the Curtain, so it sounds like he still has a lot of musical ambitions to fulfill in his life.  Given that he is getting up there in age, and especially in light of certain recent celebrity losses, I'm not going to begrudge Jon the opportunity to spend his twilight years however he sees fit.

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #601 on: January 18, 2016, 09:20:09 AM »
Well, you summed up brilliantly how I feel about the whole situation. For a long time I mourned the lack of Savatage activity when they were too busy with "Christmas stuff", but in time I've come to accept the situation. Jon's carreer, Jon's live, Jon's choices, the metal world owes him so much.

A crying shame that Savatage never became as big as they deserved, and of course that Criss died. At the very least, those album they did remain.

I wish too that TSO would go the Ritchie Blackmore way - with his medieval outfit, Blackmore's night, album by album he's covering Rainbow and Deep Purple, TSO with future releases and tours should more and more add Savatage songs in the set / albums.
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Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #602 on: January 18, 2016, 01:30:54 PM »
I saw TSO last year in Boston.  It was...OK.   I doubt I'd go to another one. 


I've been getting my Savatage-ish metal itch scratched very effectively by Circle II Circle. 

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #603 on: January 18, 2016, 08:51:28 PM »
I think I would rather him officially shut the band down for good instead of always making these vague statements about the future of Savatage

Totally this.
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Offline Prog Snob

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #604 on: January 18, 2016, 09:04:31 PM »
I think I would rather him officially shut the band down for good instead of always making these vague statements about the future of Savatage

Totally this.

I kind of agree but I can't imagine what goes through his head when trying to ultimately decide what he wants to do. I mean, Savatage is his baby, something he started with his brother, and just saying he's done with it might be harder than we realize. Maybe one day he wakes up and wants to make a Savatage record like the old days, but the next day he realizes it's pointless.

Online wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #605 on: January 18, 2016, 09:10:01 PM »
If he decides to call it a day with Savatage, there's still nothing saying he can't resurrect it and do something in the future.
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Offline Prog Snob

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #606 on: January 18, 2016, 09:19:00 PM »
You're absolutely right. However, I feel like he wants to come to a final decision at this point in his life, instead of bouncing back and forth.

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #607 on: January 18, 2016, 09:21:12 PM »
It's probably just a hard thing to finally let go of it.  If the band never announce that their finally finished it's like Jon has something to hold on to.  A bit of hope.  Come to think of it, he probably thinks keeping the name active or alive is for Criss.  He probably would feel bad for Criss finally finishing up the band.
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Offline Prog Snob

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #608 on: January 18, 2016, 09:50:37 PM »
That's exactly my point. It would be like finally closing the chapter on his life that was started with his brother. I don't think he'll ever be able to officially say Savatage is done.

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #609 on: January 19, 2016, 12:34:30 PM »
I think as long as the entire DWD/TWOM lineup of Savatage is active in TSO, Jon will never say that Savatage is over.  For one thing, from his point of view the band is still together making records and touring, even if they are doing neither under the Savatage name.  For another, so long as that lineup remains together in TSO, there will always be the possibility of TSO doing some sort of Savatage related event, like the Wacken show, or the scuttled Savatage set for the 2011 spring tour.  If Jon said Savatage was dead and buried, and then all six guys get together and played a set of 8 or so Savatage songs on a TSO tour, it would look contradictory, and would probably interpreted as a ruse to get more of Savatage's metal fans to attend TSO concerts (and there are some who already feel the Wacken show was exactly that).  So announcing the disbanding of Savatage would not only be pointless, it could also create more issues with the fans then simply leaving Savatage in limbo.  Jon doesn't want that kind of headache.  Not saying Savatage is gone at least gives the fans hope, and leaves the door open for TSO to do something Savatage related.  The only thing for Jon to gain by saying the band is over and done with would just be a whole new set of problems with the fans, and he has enough of that already.

Offline Deathless

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #610 on: February 02, 2016, 06:53:54 PM »
Bump.

This is pretty cool. Jon joined Obituary, of all bands, on stage at a recent metal festival in Florida. They performed "The Dungeons are Calling" and "City Beneath the Surface".

Check it!

 :metal

Offline Hanz Gruber

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #611 on: February 03, 2016, 11:36:42 AM »
I wish TSO would use Zak more on the albums.  Not a fan of many of the singers that they use and Zak was awesome in rock operas like Dead Winter Dead and The Wake of Magellan

Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #612 on: February 03, 2016, 01:19:50 PM »
I wish TSO would use Zak more on the albums.  Not a fan of many of the singers that they use and Zak was awesome in rock operas like Dead Winter Dead and The Wake of Magellan

I agree.  I would enjoy the TSO albums 100X more if it was Zak on the mic.

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #613 on: February 13, 2016, 01:48:15 AM »
Jon joined Obituary

Don't scare me like that.  Do you know what that does to people that quickly skim over the conversation and pick up the words Jon and Obituary separated by only one word?

With his weight issues and 2016 being the year no musician is safe, you made my heart skip a beat.  Thankfully I'm only a hack musician.

Offline Deathless

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #614 on: April 03, 2016, 09:36:10 AM »
Had to bump this thread when I saw it was Criss' birthday today. RIP Criss, your impact on many of us fans will never be forgotten!  :metal

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Offline Dr. DTVT

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #615 on: April 03, 2016, 07:17:54 PM »
I happened to go to Tampa today, and figured I'd check out the crash site, since I had done research on where it was.  The road is very different from when he was killed, but the lack of a homemade memorial was kind of sad.
     

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #616 on: April 03, 2016, 09:00:29 PM »
I happened to go to Tampa today, and figured I'd check out the crash site, since I had done research on where it was.  The road is very different from when he was killed, but the lack of a homemade memorial was kind of sad.

That's really shit.

RIP Criss.
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #617 on: April 06, 2017, 01:25:52 AM »
Didn't find a proper TSO thread, so I'll post in this.

Devasting and horrible news: Paul O' Neill has died  :'(

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/trans-siberian-orchestra-creator-paul-oneill-dies-at-61/

A huge and unfair blow to TSO and to Savatage, the band he essentially saved back in 1987. Jon Oliva had already lost a blood brother but now he lost a musical brother, it's so sad.
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Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #618 on: April 06, 2017, 04:51:34 AM »
Wow sad news

RIP

Offline Art

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #619 on: April 06, 2017, 05:33:08 AM »
 :( :( :(

Offline TAC

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #620 on: April 06, 2017, 05:48:38 AM »
Wow, that's big. April 5th claims another.

Wonder what his chronic illness was.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #621 on: April 06, 2017, 06:36:11 AM »
Didn't find a proper TSO thread, so I'll post in this.

Devasting and horrible news: Paul O' Neill has died  :'(

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/trans-siberian-orchestra-creator-paul-oneill-dies-at-61/

A huge and unfair blow to TSO and to Savatage, the band he essentially saved back in 1987. Jon Oliva had already lost a blood brother but now he lost a musical brother, it's so sad.

Just shocking and horrible news.  RIP Paul, you will be missed.

Don't forget Jon also lost his JOP brother Matt LaPorte a few years back too.  Poor fella can't catch a break.
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #622 on: April 06, 2017, 06:45:50 AM »
You're right... truly unfair for him to go through so many losses.

I remember an interview with Jon Oliva about the new singers that performed at Wacken when TSO and Savatage performed together, and Jon presented them essentially as the new blood, the next generation of performers... I wonder how far in advance he and Paul planned TSO's future activities and what contingencies they may had.

For sure, without the soul and lyricist of the band, it will never be the same, even if the future Christmas tours will go on for decades. Damn, this is one of the music deaths that hurts me the most since Ronne James Dio's passing.  :-[
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Offline bl5150

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #623 on: May 31, 2017, 12:06:28 AM »
Reports coming through that Paul O'Neill's death has been ruled an accidental overdose of "prescription medication"  including methadone, codeine and Valium.  :-\
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #624 on: May 31, 2017, 01:03:18 AM »
If that's true that's horrible bad luck  :sad:
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Offline bl5150

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #625 on: May 31, 2017, 01:55:29 AM »
He was pretty obviously addicted to prescribed painkillers and overdid it.........it seems that his medical afflictions lead to a painkiller addiction - whether there was a "recreational" component I don't know.   Methadone is pretty much exclusively for heroin withdrawal in my country but I know some doctors (mostly overseas) still use it for chronic pain when other treatments fail.

Either way the fact that he didn't die from natural causes and didn't intend to commit suicide is pretty tragic.  Not unlike Heath Ledger in that respect.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2017, 02:04:01 AM by bl5150 »
"I would just like to say that after all these years of heavy drinking, bright lights and late nights, I still don't need glasses. I drink right out of the bottle." - DLR

www.theguitardojo.com.au

Online wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #626 on: May 31, 2017, 07:25:48 AM »
That makes a tragic thing even more terrible.
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Offline TAC

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #627 on: May 31, 2017, 12:53:06 PM »
Reports coming through that Paul O'Neill's death has been ruled an accidental overdose of "prescription medication"  including methadone, codeine and Valium.  :-\

OK, not to be an ass here, but aren't there Doctor's orders when taking these? Is the doctor responsible, or did he not follow directions regarding mixing and quantities?
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
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Offline Samsara

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #628 on: June 01, 2017, 08:33:57 AM »
On a more positive note, I have recently re-discovered the greatness of Wake of Magellan. I bought it when it came out, didn't like it, got rid of it. Now almost 20 years later, I'm revisiting it and I'm really enjoying it.  :metal
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Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #629 on: June 01, 2017, 10:16:51 AM »
I was thrown off initially by Wake of Magellan too.  But it clicked after a few more listens.

I really like the instrumental, "The Ocean" and wanted it to be longer.  Such a cool tune.