Author Topic: The Savatage Thread  (Read 101555 times)

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Offline Deathless

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #560 on: August 20, 2015, 07:42:11 PM »
Loved the dueling vocals on Dead Winter Dead. Awesome!

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #561 on: August 20, 2015, 07:44:11 PM »
Yeah, a live cd/dvd I'd definitely, but yeah I noticed the amount of smoke around too.

Seeing Vitalij Kaprij there threw me off too at first.  Then I remembered he plays for TSO.
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Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #562 on: August 20, 2015, 07:58:03 PM »
I'd still buy it within minutes of it being released

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #563 on: August 22, 2015, 04:45:27 AM »
Damn....taken down.
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Online bl5150

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #564 on: August 22, 2015, 10:49:46 PM »
As close to Savatage worship as I have ever heard...........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5sOBjgFhTo

I just pulled this album out for the first time in ages and it was bad enough at the start but when it got to the chorus my brain starting singing "Better listen to me........you son of a bitch" .  Not a bad song but just a tad too obvious  :lol   None of the other songs on the album are like this by the way.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 12:53:43 AM by bl5150 »
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Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #565 on: August 23, 2015, 03:30:32 AM »
As close to Savatage worship as I have ever heard...........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5sOBjgFhTo

I just pulled this album out for the first time in ages and it was bad enough at the start but when it got to the chorus my brain starting singing "Better listen to me........you son of a bitch" .  Not a bad song but just a tad too obvious  :lol   None of the other songs on the album are like this by the way.

Oh, come on, that's as blatant as you can get.  Every section is fucking ripped off.  :lol
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Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #566 on: August 23, 2015, 07:16:00 AM »
Wow. That's up there with that Allen/Lande Edge of Thorns song

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #567 on: August 23, 2015, 03:38:57 PM »
I think that's even more blatant then the Allen/Lande song.  Once "Lady of Winter" got past the intro, it sounded fairly original.  The vocal melodies were different enough, and both the vocals and the music for the chorus were quite a departure from "Edge of Thorns", plus the subject of the lyrics was something else entirely. 

This, though, sounds like a straight up rip off of "Of Rage and War", down to the riffs, the vocal melodies, and even the lyrics themselves.   :lol

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #568 on: August 23, 2015, 05:11:57 PM »
Yeah, it's multiple sections ripping off multiple sections from the same song.  It's quite unheard of.
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Offline erwinrafael

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #569 on: August 25, 2015, 11:33:12 PM »
There is something really unique about Criss's playing that I just can't put my finger on. On so many songs he had the amazing ability to drive the music without being overpowering. It was really tasteful. I don't know how to explain it fully but I thought about while listening to EOT in the car today.

Every bit of lead work he did had it's place in the song.  He had such a creative flow with his soloing but nothing ever sounded overstated or left the listener thinking that it was uneccesary.  His work always complimented the song, and his note choices and phrasing really made his solos sing and memorable.

His shred moments always went with the song too, like Follow Me or He Carves His Stone, his leads reach climax just like the songs themselves do, always at the perfect times.  Then in songs like Tonight He Grins Again, such a mellow moody piece, where he'll just do a couple of fills here and there to build the atmosphere, but for some reason, it's perfect and doesn't need any extra noodling whatsoever. 

He was just a brilliant and underrated guitarist.

Just listened to the Edge of Thorns album again yesterday. What struck me is that Criss Oliva knows how to sound EPIC. I put him alongside Brian May as the best in knowing how to make a guitar sound so majestic.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 11:45:47 PM by erwinrafael »

Online bl5150

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #570 on: August 25, 2015, 11:42:45 PM »
I agree............solos like When The Crowds are gone define epic guitar playing for me. Not particularly technical , just well constructed and beautiful.   The first few notes of that solo do remind me a bit of Brian May .   He also had a knack for using really well constructed backing rhythms to elevate a solo.

https://youtu.be/KoLbjaYpsNk?t=185

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Offline erwinrafael

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #571 on: August 25, 2015, 11:50:21 PM »
Yes. I think what Criss and Brian know is that a majestic sound is really about build-up and well-constructed backing rhythms. The shredding is usually used to create a sense of anticipation which climaxes with slower melodic playing with a lot of sustained notes.

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #572 on: August 26, 2015, 06:40:23 AM »
Another one of my favs from him is Streets, definitely epic.  I can see the Brian May comparison too.
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Offline Deathless

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #573 on: September 01, 2015, 07:51:26 PM »
Didn't want to derail the discography thread conversation, but I was watching Jon's "Farewell Show" on Youtube. Did anybody get to catch the band around this time? Obviously it was a special show in the their hometown but the band has a great energy live, especially in a club. I wouldn't mind seeing Tage' today in a similar venue after seeing TSO in arenas the last few years.

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #574 on: September 01, 2015, 08:16:00 PM »
I can't really tell the exact size of the venue , but from what I can see, JOP typically plays clubs about that size.

Online bl5150

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #575 on: September 05, 2015, 07:16:13 AM »
Pre- Wacken interview

https://youtu.be/UCXxnUOfcSo
"I would just like to say that after all these years of heavy drinking, bright lights and late nights, I still don't need glasses. I drink right out of the bottle." - DLR

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Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #576 on: September 05, 2015, 06:03:59 PM »
That was an awesome interview.  Some very interesting comments from Jon, Paul and Al.  I kind of figured they wouldn't give a definitive answer on the future of Savatage, given that it would largely be at the mercy of TSO's schedule.  I thought the comments about choosing the setlist and the differences between Savatage and TSO was particularly enlightening.  I think it really emphasizes how, to many of the guys in the band(s), the transition from Savatage to TSO was a logical evolution.  I'm sure others will disagree but I can certainly see it from that point of view. I'm curious to see exactly what Jon and Paul have in store for Broadway.  I know that's been an ambition of theirs going back to the Streets era.  I also found it particularly noteworthy that apparently the possibility of the Wacken footage getting a DVD release was entirely at the mercy or the record label. 

Cool stuff, though.  Here's hoping there will be more Savatage shows in the future!  :metal

Offline TAC

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would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Deathless

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #578 on: October 03, 2015, 04:24:24 PM »
So Jon is writing new Savatage music? YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #579 on: October 04, 2015, 10:57:39 AM »
Until I actually see an official release date with artwork and a track listing, I will never hold my breath for anything new Savatage related.

Offline Mister Gold

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Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #581 on: October 04, 2015, 07:19:49 PM »
Oh, please, please, please let there be a new album in the works.  I started to get a little glimmer of hope when Jon mentioned in that Dr. Metal interview a couple years ago that he was up for writing some new Savatage material, possibly as EP.  I remember thinking to myself "Paul would never let it just be an EP," and I think I may have been right.  Nothing would make me more happy then a new Savatage album.  That band really had a lot of creative gas left in the tank.

I noticed in the Wacken interview when Jon and Paul were talking about maybe doing something on Broadway, they mentioned something along the lines of letting "the kids" take the reigns of TSO for a while.  Perhaps this means that now that TSO is in a position of pretty much unassailable popularity, they may now have the time to do more projects outside of TSO.  A Savatage reunion might just be one of the items at the top of Jon and Paul's bucket list.

Come on, Jon, you know you want it just as much as we do.

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #582 on: October 06, 2015, 10:26:20 PM »
Until I actually see an official release date with artwork and a track listing, I will never hold my breath for anything new Savatage related.

I'm with Jay on this one.  It would be unbelievable though.  We can only hope.
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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #583 on: October 07, 2015, 07:57:05 PM »
They might be Savashy.

You let something linger for too long and the expectations become impossible to live up to.  It is almost a guaranteed disappointment.  Not to mention there are kind of 3 phases of Savatage.  The first phase (Sirens, Dungeons) had their moments but usually is not the favorite of most.  The second (Mountain to Rain) is my SavaPrime.  But there are quite a few fans for the third.  The broadway prog transition to TSO.  Obviously, I would be most thrilled with a 2nd phase style new album.  The problem there is Criss was such a big part of that.

Me personally.  I'd be happy with anything.  But I'm guessing Jon/Paul would feel some pressure.  Savatage went out leaving us wanting more.  Going out on top.  If they never release another Savatage album, they have that legacy intact.

As far as TSO, I almost feel like they missed me by about a decade.  I was heavily into that whole "orchestra" type feel (let alone rock orchestra) that TSO would have been nirvana for me.  And the Sarajevo song caught the end where I couldn't get enough of it.  But TSO itself caught me as I was losing my love for that type of stuff.  Thankfully, I don't set the trends and they were successful.

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #584 on: October 07, 2015, 09:57:59 PM »
I'd class HOR in the third era.
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Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #585 on: October 07, 2015, 10:08:09 PM »
If I had to hazard a guess as to what style a new Savatage album would sound like, I would imagine that it would most likely be in the style of the last three Savatage albums (Dead Winter Dead, The Wake of Magellan, Poets and Madmen).  Very rock opera and very TSO-esque, but a bit heavier.  For one thing, the band for this album will most likely comprise of the DWD/TWOM line-up.  For another, Europe is Savatage's biggest market, and that DWD/TWOM era of the band was their most successful over there.  I would expect Jon and Zak to split lead vocals 50/50, just like what was supposed to happen for P&M.  However, I would expect the album to be a bit more varied then P&M, as I would think the band would want to showcase all the sides of Savatage, and not just the darker, heavier side.

Beyond that, I don't know what else to expect.  I'm not sure if it would be a rock opera or not.  On the one hand, I could see Jon and the band just wanting to make a straight forward rock album.  But on the other hand, the reunion might give Paul some ideas for a story.  Also, Jon has often said that Streets was his favourite Savatage record, so if he wants the band to make a masterpiece, that would be the reference point for what Jon thinks is the perfect Savatage record.  Plus, as stated above, DWD and TWOM were the band's biggest albums in Europe, and both of those were rock operas.  So I think there is a good chance it could be a rock opera.

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #586 on: October 07, 2015, 10:16:59 PM »
I'd class HOR in the third era.

Yeah, I was going to bring this up in the Discography thread at some point, but when I seperate Savatage into eras, I don't go by the line-up, because their membership changes so frequently.  Rather, I go by who were the primary song writers.

First Era- Sirens, The Dungeons are Calling, Power of the Night, Fight for the Rock.  Primary song writers were Jon and Criss Oliva.

Second Era- Hall of the Mountain King, Gutter Ballet, Streets, Edge of Thorns.  Primary song writers were Jon, Criss and Paul.

Third Era- Handful of Rain, Dead Winter Dead, The Wake of Magellan, Poets and Madmen.  Primary song writers were Jon and Paul.

It should be noted, though, that such divisions are somewhat imperfect.  HoR was a straight-forward rock album, unlike the others of it's era.  Likewise, EoT had Zak on leads, unlike the other albums of the second era.  I sometimes consider EoT and HoR together to be something of a transition period between the second and third eras. 

P&M is a bit different from DWD or TWOM, as it has Jon singing most of the leads rather then Zak.  Plus Caffery was a much bigger part of the writing on P&M then he had been on previous albums.  On the whole, however, it is similar enough to fit comfortably with those albums.

Again, though, it's all rather arbitrary.  Savatage changed so much over the course of their career, it's difficult to discern where one era ends and a new one begins.

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #587 on: October 07, 2015, 10:23:48 PM »
What you listed there DM is what I'd go for too in terms of the eras.
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Online bl5150

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #588 on: October 07, 2015, 10:26:11 PM »
What you listed there DM is what I'd go for too in terms of the eras.

Ditto - and for me , although I like all eras, the 2nd blows the others away.
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Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #589 on: October 07, 2015, 10:33:49 PM »
What you listed there DM is what I'd go for too in terms of the eras.

Ditto - and for me , although I like all eras, the 2nd blows the others away.

When I was getting into the band, the third era I was quite partial too for quite a while, but really, the 2nd is where it's at.
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Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #590 on: October 08, 2015, 12:28:24 AM »
All Savatage kicks ass

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #591 on: October 08, 2015, 05:40:41 AM »
All Savatage kicks ass

Well, no one can argue with that.
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Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #592 on: October 09, 2015, 03:39:25 PM »
Agreed.

Nothing wrong with liking any era of Savatage.   :metal

Offline Prog Snob

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #593 on: October 11, 2015, 03:36:33 AM »
I keep holding onto a tiny thread of hope that Savatage releases one more album and does a small US tour as sort of a farewell for the fans, even though they still kind of live on in TSO.  It's not the same but at the same time, I was always more of a Savatage fan for their operatic and classical sounding songs as opposed to the straight-ahead rock/metal tracks.

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #594 on: October 23, 2015, 12:37:52 PM »
Found another interview with Jon and Paul from Wacken:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzURoR13oYs