The Savatage Thread

[The Dark Master]

Finally got the narrated version of Streets.  Interesting that they used the song DT Jesus and Jesus Saves is not on here at all.  I guess the original version was supposed to be on there instead if this version is anything to go by.

Dark Master, can you enlighten me with some info on this?

Well, the story I've always heard (and I believe this is on both Savatage.com and the Sava article on Wikipedia) was that the record label wanted the band to "rock up" Jesus Saves so that the album would have a hard hitting first single.  However, I noticed in the liner credits for the new Narrated Streets that Jon says it was Criss and himself who basically begged Paul to let them make JS into a more metal song to help make the album sound more like a Savatage record, I would guess because at the time the band was probably still reluctant to go the full on Broadway metal route.

Personally, I like the new version, but while the narration does flesh out the story of the record considerably, I do agree that it doesn't really help with the presentation, and if anything it breaks up the flow of the album.  Furthermore, while some clarification on the album's plot is appreciated, the story wasn't really that difficult to figure out anyways.  If any Savatage album needs narration to make the story understandable, it would be the Wake Of Magellan!     The story for Poets And Madmen isn't exactly crystal either, but since that album was never intended to be a rock opera in the first place, and Paul just decided to shoehorn a story into it, I don't really care if i can understand what the fuck that record is supposed to be about.  The basic themes of the album, like insanity and spirituality, come through just fine as is.

[The Dark Master]

Some killer live footage from Greece in 2002:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr7vIkhxtLg

I think it says a lot about the level of success TSO has attained if Savatage can turn their backs on these sorts of crowds.  I also think the band stilled had a lot of fire left in them back in 2001-2002, and it's all the more criminal that they didn't continue on making albums after P&M.  They really seem like they stilled had a  lot more to say, even a t such a late point in their careers.

Didn't the line-up go through some drastic changes after the P&M release?  Zak left.  Pitrelli was gone.  They had Jack Frost on guitar (until they asked him to leave) and Damond Jiniya doing Zak's vocals.  Plus, they were having much more success with the TSO holiday juggernaut than they did with Savatage.

Zak left during the recording of the album right before he was supposed to record his vocals, and Al officially left much earlier, although he did still record a couple of solos for the album.

As for the success of TSO, obviously once that took off, Savatage was going to take a back seat, but as we have debated here before, if the band members can make time for their side projects, like Jon Oliva's Pain, Circle II Circle, Machines Of Grace, the Chris Caffery band, and others, then I really think there isn't anything actually stopping them from doing a Savatage thing.  I think the big holdout that is actually preventing the making a new Savatage record is Paul being up to his neck in TSO 365 days of the year, combined with the fact that Jon doesn't seem to want to tour with Savatage without a new album to promote.  I'm sure the scheduling of TSO makes doing anything Savatage related a hassle, but, again, if they can find the time to do all that other stuff, they could make the time for Savatage.  At least, the band could.  As for Paul, though, I'm not so sure, and that is what I think is really holding the band back.

At least we have JOP, though.  I'm very grateful Jon can at least find the time to do that and make the records that Savatage probably would have made had they continued on after P&M.  Festival was fantastic, and while I loved Jon solo record, I'm practically salivating for the new Pain album.  I believe I herd Jon say in an interview that he plans on having it out sometime in the middle of next year, and after doing something differest on his solo album, the next JOP record is going to be his heaviest, darkest thing yet!   

[wolfking]

I always thought the Streets story was pretty bland.  There's nothing really there and it is pretty straightforward and simple.  Haven't gone through the whole cd yet, but I didn't mind the narration.  Thanks for the explanation regarding Jesus Saves, I did quite like the version we got on this remaster.  I think it would have been wise to include Jesus Saves as a bonus though.

[Prog Snob]

Finally got the narrated version of Streets.  Interesting that they used the song DT Jesus and Jesus Saves is not on here at all.  I guess the original version was supposed to be on there instead if this version is anything to go by.

Dark Master, can you enlighten me with some info on this?

Well, the story I've always heard (and I believe this is on both Savatage.com and the Sava article on Wikipedia) was that the record label wanted the band to "rock up" Jesus Saves so that the album would have a hard hitting first single.  However, I noticed in the liner credits for the new Narrated Streets that Jon says it was Criss and himself who basically begged Paul to let them make JS into a more metal song to help make the album sound more like a Savatage record, I would guess because at the time the band was probably still reluctant to go the full on Broadway metal route.

Personally, I like the new version, but while the narration does flesh out the story of the record considerably, I do agree that it doesn't really help with the presentation, and if anything it breaks up the flow of the album.  Furthermore, while some clarification on the album's plot is appreciated, the story wasn't really that difficult to figure out anyways.  If any Savatage album needs narration to make the story understandable, it would be the Wake Of Magellan!     The story for Poets And Madmen isn't exactly crystal either, but since that album was never intended to be a rock opera in the first place, and Paul just decided to shoehorn a story into it, I don't really care if i can understand what the fuck that record is supposed to be about.  The basic themes of the album, like insanity and spirituality, come through just fine as is.

I was under the impression that it was loosely based on journalist Kevin Carter. 

Regarding Paul O' Neill and a new Savatage.... Couldn't the band write something without him?   Or does own their asses or something?

[The Dark Master]

Finally got the narrated version of Streets.  Interesting that they used the song DT Jesus and Jesus Saves is not on here at all.  I guess the original version was supposed to be on there instead if this version is anything to go by.

Dark Master, can you enlighten me with some info on this?

Well, the story I've always heard (and I believe this is on both Savatage.com and the Sava article on Wikipedia) was that the record label wanted the band to "rock up" Jesus Saves so that the album would have a hard hitting first single.  However, I noticed in the liner credits for the new Narrated Streets that Jon says it was Criss and himself who basically begged Paul to let them make JS into a more metal song to help make the album sound more like a Savatage record, I would guess because at the time the band was probably still reluctant to go the full on Broadway metal route.

Personally, I like the new version, but while the narration does flesh out the story of the record considerably, I do agree that it doesn't really help with the presentation, and if anything it breaks up the flow of the album.  Furthermore, while some clarification on the album's plot is appreciated, the story wasn't really that difficult to figure out anyways.  If any Savatage album needs narration to make the story understandable, it would be the Wake Of Magellan!     The story for Poets And Madmen isn't exactly crystal either, but since that album was never intended to be a rock opera in the first place, and Paul just decided to shoehorn a story into it, I don't really care if i can understand what the fuck that record is supposed to be about.  The basic themes of the album, like insanity and spirituality, come through just fine as is.

I was under the impression that it was loosely based on journalist Kevin Carter. 

Regarding Paul O' Neill and a new Savatage.... Couldn't the band write something without him?   Or does own their asses or something?

It is, ostensibly, about Kevin Carter, but because much of the album was written without the intention of it being a rock opera, combined with the fact that Paul pretty much came up with the concept about Carter at the last minute essentially made the story of P&M a convoluted mess.  Paul typically writes his stories first and then works with Jon and the others when writing the songs to the already written story.  P&M, however, was already mostly written musically before Paul even got involved in the record, and the basics of the lyrics and vocal melodies were already under way when Paul made a last second decision to turn the album into a rock opera.   Jon Oliva was initially rather annoyed with this, as he had become sick of rock operas at that point and wanted to make the new Savatage album more of a straight forward metal record, and that may have played a role in Jon decision to just start a whole new band for his future music.  (Ironically, Paul originally wanted to make the TSO album Night Castle a regular record, but it was only after Jon repeatedly badgered him by asking "What's the story" during the writing process of that record that Paul once again came up with a last-minute plot.)

As for why Savatage can't or won't do anything without Paul, I'm not sure, but I strongly suspect that as much as Jon may want to work without Paul's interference, he may fear that without Paul's vision, he cannot make an album majestic enough to bear the name Savatage.  I personally constantly flip back and forth on the issue of whether or not the JOP records would have been worthy of bearing the Savatage name as is, as I do miss the epic scope of albums like DWD and TWOM.  However, if P&M is any indication, Jon really wanted to move back to a more metal sound for Savatage and leave the rock operas and the neoclassical instrumentals to TSO, and if you read any of his interviews from 2002 or 2003, his plans for the future sound of Savatage do sound an awful lot like what he has made with JOP. 

It may also be that Jon doesn't want arrange the schedule for his non-TSO projects around TSO.  Getting the Savatage guys from TSO would mean that Jon would only be able to do Savatage while TSO was doing nothing, and it may require Caffery and the guys sitting out a TSO tour every once in a while (and loosing a lot of money).  I'm not certain how feasible that would be, although comments from Caffery and Middleton would indicate that they would at least find a Savatage re-activation worthwhile.  Zak has also said that he would be up for a Savatage thing, if and when it ever happens, so the lack of Savatage is not due to the apathy of any of the members....... except for Jon.

Ultimately, it may be that Jon just lost interest in the idea of "Savatage" as a brand name.  Most Savatage fans already view Jon as Savatage anyways, and rightly so.  Since Savatage never really broke into the mainstream, their fanbase is relatively small, but also probably, on average, more well informed about the band itself.  As most Savatage fans know who Jon Oliva is, his name is nearly as marketable as Savatage (possibly even moreso, as he is known as one of the major songwriters for TSO).  Couple this with the fact that the Savatage name has shown itself to lack mainstream appeal (Christmas Eve, anyone?), and there is really little reason for Jon to actually want to go out under the name Savatage rather then as Jon Oliva's Whatever.  As long as it has Oliva's name on it, most Savatage fans will buy it.

[Prog Snob]

Wow, thanks for all of the information.  What you said about Jon being afraid to not have the vision that Paul has to make the sound majestic enough contradicts what Jon felt about making a straight ahead metal album, don't you think?  Not that I am doubting your story, but I kind of think Jon wasn't sure what he wanted at that point.  I can understand Jon's frustration a bit regarding the P&M incident.  He probably felt like 'you have your rock opera with TSO, let's make this more of a metal record.'  Isn't that exactly what he did when he "left" Savatage the first time?  He put together Doctor Butcher.  It's funny actually. The first time I saw them was when they played L'amour in Brooklyn for the Handful of Rain tour.  A friend and myself were outside chatting with the band till 5 in the morning and we spoke extensively with Zak and Jon.  Jon was telling us about the Doctor Butcher CD and how dark he wanted it to be and I remember him comparing it to Type O Negative (which I did fail to see once picking up the Doctor Butcher CD), but he was so excited about it.

I think I probably speak for a lot of Savatage fans with saying that even though Jon IS Savatage, to me it's not the same without Zak singing.  As long as Jon is on stage doing something (rhythm guitar, keys), Savatage fans are happy.  I would love to see just one more album and tour before it's too late. 

[The Dark Master]

Wow, thanks for all of the information.  What you said about Jon being afraid to not have the vision that Paul has to make the sound majestic enough contradicts what Jon felt about making a straight ahead metal album, don't you think?  Not that I am doubting your story, but I kind of think Jon wasn't sure what he wanted at that point.  I can understand Jon's frustration a bit regarding the P&M incident.  He probably felt like 'you have your rock opera with TSO, let's make this more of a metal record.'  Isn't that exactly what he did when he "left" Savatage the first time?  He put together Doctor Butcher.  It's funny actually. The first time I saw them was when they played L'amour in Brooklyn for the Handful of Rain tour.  A friend and myself were outside chatting with the band till 5 in the morning and we spoke extensively with Zak and Jon.  Jon was telling us about the Doctor Butcher CD and how dark he wanted it to be and I remember him comparing it to Type O Negative (which I did fail to see once picking up the Doctor Butcher CD), but he was so excited about it.

I think I probably speak for a lot of Savatage fans with saying that even though Jon IS Savatage, to me it's not the same without Zak singing.  As long as Jon is on stage doing something (rhythm guitar, keys), Savatage fans are happy.  I would love to see just one more album and tour before it's too late.

I do agree that Jon's desire to pursue a more distinctly metallic musical direction would contradict the possibility that Jon feels he needs Paul to make Savatage more epic and regal, but, as you said, Jon probably did not know what exactly he wanted to do at that point.   It must be remembered that when P&M was first released, it revived a rather muted response from much of the Savatage fanbase.  The younger fans who had discovered the band durring the Zak era were sad to see Zak go and were disappointed by the less symphonic direction of the new album, while the older, more metal fans, who upon hearing that the new record would be more of a metal album, and that Jon was going to be singing all of the vocals once again, got their hopes up for a full on return to the HOTMK style, which of course didn't happen.  P&M, ultimately, fell somewhere between the two distinct styles of Savatage, and with the fans being so divided at that point, the album satisfied no-one, despite being a solid record in it's own right.  (I should add that over the years, it seems increasing numbers of Savatage fans have gradually warmed up to the album, and can now appriciate it on it's own merits.)

Considering this, I would imagine that Jon didn't know exactly what to do after P&M.  He clearly wanted to go back to more of a metal sound, and he also wanted to be more independent of Paul, but many fans (especially in Europe, Savatage's strongest market) were still longing for Zak Stevens and the epic rock operas of Paul O'Niell.  That contradiction, combined with TSO eating up more and more of everyone's time, is probably what led Jon to decide to make his next record a side project rather then a Savatage album.  'Tage Mahal was originally going to be a Jon Oliva solo record, but when Jon hooked up with the guys from Circle II Circle, JOP became an actual band, and perhaps quite accidentally, became a sort of surrogate-Savatage, both for Jon, and for the fans.  In fact, CIIC had already shown Jon that an ex-member of Savatage could start a new band that was very 'Tage-esque; why couldn't he, the primary song writer of Savatage, do the same?  When JOP actually started to build up momentum as more and more Savatage fans started to catch on to the new band, the necessity of Savatage, which was complicated by the massive success and commitments of TSO, became marginalized.  Jon didn't need Savatage anymore to get his music out, and if the rise of JOP is any indication, it seems most fans are willing to make due with whatever else Jon gives them.

(I should note that while I am basing a lot of the above on comments I have read in interviews with Jon and others, a lot of it is conjecture on my part.  I obviously don't know what was going on in Jon's head back in 2002-2003.  However, based on what he said in interviews at the time, as well as the benefit of hindsight looking back now at how the situation developed, I think that is a reasonable explanation of how things went down in the Savatage camp after P&M.)

And yes, I do miss Zak in Savatage.  As much as I love CIIC, it's not exactly the same, as even on the albums where Jon and Caffery contributed to the writing, Zak was still the primary song-writer.  Something I have wanted to see for a long time would be a sort of merger between CIIC and JOP.  I'm not sure how possible that would be, but it would be one step closer to rebuilding Savatage again.

[abydos]

Honestly, I just can't wrap my brain around how someone would be disappointed with P&M in any way, shape or form. To me it's a perfect mix of both worlds with an outstanding performance from Jon on the vocals. It's easily one of their best albums, imo, and it always makes me kinda sad to read people thinking otherwise (yes, I realize it's music and all but still...).
And I'm glad they didn't went with HOTMK style for it, as great as that is it would have been a mistake to repeat themselves like that.

I've said it before and I'll repeat myself because this thread made me crave another 'Tage album again. Just go in the fucking studio and make music, damn it. Fuck touring!

[kirksnosehair]

I'm with you, abydos.  I'd love some new studio material from Savatage.  I don't think it's in the cards, though.   

[Prog Snob]

I do agree that Jon's desire to pursue a more distinctly metallic musical direction would contradict the possibility that Jon feels he needs Paul to make Savatage more epic and regal, but, as you said, Jon probably did not know what exactly he wanted to do at that point.   It must be remembered that when P&M was first released, it revived a rather muted response from much of the Savatage fanbase.  The younger fans who had discovered the band durring the Zak era were sad to see Zak go and were disappointed by the less symphonic direction of the new album, while the older, more metal fans, who upon hearing that the new record would be more of a metal album, and that Jon was going to be singing all of the vocals once again, got their hopes up for a full on return to the HOTMK style, which of course didn't happen.  P&M, ultimately, fell somewhere between the two distinct styles of Savatage, and with the fans being so divided at that point, the album satisfied no-one, despite being a solid record in it's own right.  (I should add that over the years, it seems increasing numbers of Savatage fans have gradually warmed up to the album, and can now appriciate it on it's own merits.)

Considering this, I would imagine that Jon didn't know exactly what to do after P&M.  He clearly wanted to go back to more of a metal sound, and he also wanted to be more independent of Paul, but many fans (especially in Europe, Savatage's strongest market) were still longing for Zak Stevens and the epic rock operas of Paul O'Niell.  That contradiction, combined with TSO eating up more and more of everyone's time, is probably what led Jon to decide to make his next record a side project rather then a Savatage album.  'Tage Mahal was originally going to be a Jon Oliva solo record, but when Jon hooked up with the guys from Circle II Circle, JOP became an actual band, and perhaps quite accidentally, became a sort of surrogate-Savatage, both for Jon, and for the fans.  In fact, CIIC had already shown Jon that an ex-member of Savatage could start a new band that was very 'Tage-esque; why couldn't he, the primary song writer of Savatage, do the same?  When JOP actually started to build up momentum as more and more Savatage fans started to catch on to the new band, the necessity of Savatage, which was complicated by the massive success and commitments of TSO, became marginalized.  Jon didn't need Savatage anymore to get his music out, and if the rise of JOP is any indication, it seems most fans are willing to make due with whatever else Jon gives them.

(I should note that while I am basing a lot of the above on comments I have read in interviews with Jon and others, a lot of it is conjecture on my part.  I obviously don't know what was going on in Jon's head back in 2002-2003.  However, based on what he said in interviews at the time, as well as the benefit of hindsight looking back now at how the situation developed, I think that is a reasonable explanation of how things went down in the Savatage camp after P&M.)

And yes, I do miss Zak in Savatage.  As much as I love CIIC, it's not exactly the same, as even on the albums where Jon and Caffery contributed to the writing, Zak was still the primary song-writer.  Something I have wanted to see for a long time would be a sort of merger between CIIC and JOP.  I'm not sure how possible that would be, but it would be one step closer to rebuilding Savatage again.

I haven't listened to P&M since it first came out.  I admit I was a bit disappointed with it after loving TWOM.  Maybe it was that turn into a more metal sound that turned me off originally.  I'll have to give it another listen one day. 

Now the original story of Zak leaving was supposedly because of him wanting to spend more time with his family, though many people found that odd since a year later he was putting together CIIC.  What I later heard was that the real reason he left was because he was promised more vocal parts in TSO which Paul O'Neill later changed.  Is that the real story?

I'm going to see Jon Oliva's Storytellers next week in NJ.   I just happened to be looking up Savatage stuff on Facebook when I came across it.   It looks like it's going to be awesome. 

[The Dark Master]

My understanding about Zak leaving is that his family issues were genuine.  He had a kid born while the band was touring for TWOM, and he had just bought a new house in 2000, so he wasn't exactly eager to go out on tour with Savatage again so soon.  What I heard from both Jon and Zak is that Zak wanted to wait another 6 months or so to spend time with his family and get them settled in their new home before going back out on tour.  The would have pushed back the release of P&M to around October of 2001, which would have meant that Savatage would have needed to wait until after the TSO winter tour to go out in early 2002 in support of the new record.  At the time, since the album had already been delayed multiple times (originally slated for early 2000, then later 2000, then early 2001), Jon decided to press ahead without Zak and hire a replacement. 

However, considering how divided the fan base became over Zak departure, the mixed reaction to a Zak-less P&M, and the fact that going out on tour as planed in 2001 meant that the band was away from their families during the chaos of 9/11 (which Jon described as something of a breaking point for some members in the band), perhaps, in retrospect, it would have been better to just delay the album for another six months......

As for Zak in TSO, i remember hearing in an interview that Zak and and Paul had long talks about Zak's potential involvement in TSO, and that when TSO was first getting off the ground, it was important to differentiate it from Savatage by spotlighting the new singers on the TSO album (however, since many more well informed metal fans at the time were already describing TSO as Christmas Savatage, a perception that persists to this day, I think the degree of success in distinguishing TSO from Savatage is debatable at best).  Zak did sing lead vocals in the song The Dark on the TSO album Beethoven's Last Night (that same album featured a couple songs with Jon on lead vox as well), so I think, to a certain extent, Paul was open to the possibility of Zak becoming more prominent in TSO.  He does sing backing vocals on all the albums. 

However, I have also heard that Zak was really not happy with the Savatage/TSO situation at the time, and that discontent probably played a role in his decision to leave the band.  Why exactly he was unhappy, I'm not sure, but considering his relative lack of involvement in TSO (which is where the money was), and the increasingly destabilizing impact TSO's success had on the continued existence of Savatage, it may not be too difficult to guess....

[Prog Snob]

So it's apparent that both scenarios held some water in some aspect. 

What did you think of the new Jon Oliva release?

[The Dark Master]

I loved the new Oliva record, personally, and it's right behind the new DT album for my record of the year so far.  Upon first listen, I didn't think it was all that different from JOP, but the more times I heard it, the more uniqueness I find in the record.  It definitely could not have been released as a JOP or Savatage album;  it has a very retro 70's prog rock vibe that, while present in many of Jon's other works, is far more prominent on Raise The Curtain then anything else he has done before.  The whole album was really solid, although my favourite tracks from the record would probably be Ten Years and Father Time, although I Know, Big Brother, Stalker and Can't Get Away are all excellent, and every track really stands out on it's own merit.  Definitely one of the musical highlights for me in recent years.

[wolfking]

I didn't give it much of a chance cause a few other albums were out around the same time.  I'm enjoying this new version of Streets so I should get that one out again.

[Prog Snob]

Sounds like I'll have to check them both out, the new Oliva and the new version of Streets.

[TAC]

So many respected posters in this thread. I really wish I could contribute. 

[jjrock88]

So many respected posters in this thread. I really wish I could contribute. 

You never listened to Savatage?  Or you could never get into them?

[The Dark Master]

So I went to the Jon Oliva Storytellers tour in Joliet last night, braving death by taking a three hour ride in a snowstorm, and let me say that it was totally worth it as the show was fucking awesome!      As the storytellers tour was put together to predominanatly highlight the more mellow side of the Mountain King, the two and a half hour setlist featured a lot of ballads and more proggy tunes from the Savatage/JOP catalog, as well as a few tracks off his new solo record.  In between a lot of the songs, Jon told many humorous stories about his past with Savatage and JOP, many of which I had never even heard of before!  The track list was as follows:

Visions (opening played over the PA)
Father Time
Ten Years
Out On The Streets
Lady In Disguise (album version)
Summer's Rain
Jesus Saves (gospel version from the Narrated Streets)
New York City Don't Mean Nothing
Strange Reality
Tonight He Grins Again
If I Go Away
Beatles Cover *
Miles Away/
Sleep/
All That I Bleed
Look At The World
Walk Upon The Water
Fly Away
Handful Of Rain/
Stare Into The Sun/
Castles Burning/
Chance/
Alone You Breathe
Someone/Souls
I Can't Get Away
When The Crowds Are Gone.

*( I don't remember the name of the exact Beatles song he played.  Jon didn't say the name of the song, and I didn't recognize it, although Jon did say it was pretty obscure)

Jon's Band for these shows featured Chris Kinder (from JOP) on drums, Jason Jennings (also from JOP) on bass and himself on vocals, guitar and keyboards.

Overall, an amazing and unique performance from the one greats of our time!   

[Prog Snob]

I was supposed to go to that, but shit came up.  I was really pissed off that I had to miss it.

[The Dark Master]

I was supposed to go to that, but shit came up.  I was really pissed off that I had to miss it.

Damn, that sucks.  I saw a number of people there recording parts of the show on their phones, so I'm sure some of it will end up on Youtube.  I almost didn't go myself because of the weather, but eventually forced myself to make the trip, and I'm glad I did.

[Lowdz]

I loved the new Oliva record, personally, and it's right behind the new DT album for my record of the year so far.  Upon first listen, I didn't think it was all that different from JOP, but the more times I heard it, the more uniqueness I find in the record.  It definitely could not have been released as a JOP or Savatage album;  it has a very retro 70's prog rock vibe that, while present in many of Jon's other works, is far more prominent on Raise The Curtain then anything else he has done before.  The whole album was really solid, although my favourite tracks from the record would probably be Ten Years and Father Time, although I Know, Big Brother, Stalker and Can't Get Away are all excellent, and every track really stands out on it's own merit.  Definitely one of the musical highlights for me in recent years.

I found it a bit too Broadway when I listened the first time and never went back. Time to try again. methinks.

[Prog Snob]

I was supposed to go to that, but shit came up.  I was really pissed off that I had to miss it.

Damn, that sucks.  I saw a number of people there recording parts of the show on their phones, so I'm sure some of it will end up on Youtube.  I almost didn't go myself because of the weather, but eventually forced myself to make the trip, and I'm glad I did.

None of his former band members made a guest appearance? 

[The Dark Master]

I was supposed to go to that, but shit came up.  I was really pissed off that I had to miss it.

Damn, that sucks.  I saw a number of people there recording parts of the show on their phones, so I'm sure some of it will end up on Youtube.  I almost didn't go myself because of the weather, but eventually forced myself to make the trip, and I'm glad I did.

None of his former band members made a guest appearance?

Unfortunately, no, but to be honest, I didn't think they would anyways.  Caffery, Pitrelli, Middleton and Plate would not be showing up since they are on tour with TSO, so an appearance from any of them would be very impractical, if not impossible.  As for Doc, he has pretty much remained out of the Savatage world since 1994, aside from playing a couple gigs with Jon is 2003-04, and appearing on the first JOP record.  I think the only one who may even have really wanted to show up, and would have been able to to so, would have been Zak, but as this was explicitly a Jon Oliva solo show, having Zak there would have been inappropriate. 

[Prog Snob]

True. I completely forgot about the TSO tour for a moment. 

[erwinrafael]

There was only one Savatage song that made mainstream radio airplay in the Philippines: "All That I Bleed" The first time I heard it, I was one the verge of tears. It still remains as one of my favorite songs to this day. When I searched for a live recording for the song on Youtube, I found that they always dedicate this song to Criss. F*ck, that just made this song more laden with emotions for me.

[cfmoran13]

Coincidentally, there's a podcast called "Noize In The Attic" whose latest podcast (2013 #46) is primarily a large interview with Jon Oliva where he talks a lot about Savatage past and present.  I'm only about 1/3 of the way through the 1hr50min podcast.  But, it's pretty good so far.

One interesting thing I caught at the end was a mention of 'Streets' on Broadway.   

[bl5150]

I haven't watched this properly yet  but , at first glance,  someone seems to have done a half reasonable job of a "history of Savatage" amateur Youtube vid here with some cool footage/photos etc.......

I have noticed at some points it goes a bit blurry and the red text can get annoying but it's about as close to a decent mini-doco on Savatage, C2C, TSO , JOP etc...as I've seen. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zat573XOnHI

[jjrock88]

I watched that doc; it was actually very well done.

[The Dark Master]

Coincidentally, there's a podcast called "Noize In The Attic" whose latest podcast (2013 #46) is primarily a large interview with Jon Oliva where he talks a lot about Savatage past and present.  I'm only about 1/3 of the way through the 1hr50min podcast.  But, it's pretty good so far.

One interesting thing I caught at the end was a mention of 'Streets' on Broadway.   

That was a really good interview.  Jon was very, very candid in there about his opinions on a Savatage reunion and the current status of the Savatage-TSO situation.  Of course, as a fan, it's still disappointing to hear that he doesn't really want to do anything under the Savatage banner anytime soon, but, to be fair, I can certainly understand his point of view.

I haven't watched this properly yet  but , at first glance,  someone seems to have done a half reasonable job of a "history of Savatage" amateur Youtube vid here with some cool footage/photos etc.......

I have noticed at some points it goes a bit blurry and the red text can get annoying but it's about as close to a decent mini-doco on Savatage, C2C, TSO , JOP etc...as I've seen. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zat573XOnHI

I saw that a while back.  It is rather good and very comprehensive.  However, it does have a few inaccuracies, such as mentioning a TSO tour right after CE&OS which didn't happen.  (TSO first tour was in 1999, after their second x-mas album)  I should go back and watch the whole thing again.

[bl5150]

Does anyone have an opinion on the latest CIIC  (Seasons Will Fall)?    I'm just sneaking my first listen and my initial impression is that it's pretty uninspired/by the numbers.  Solid but not much more.  Will give it a second spin in the next 48 hrs.

[jjrock88]

Does anyone have an opinion on the latest CIIC  (Seasons Will Fall)?    I'm just sneaking my first listen and my initial impression is that it's pretty uninspired/by the numbers.  Solid but not much more.  Will give it a second spin in the next 48 hrs.

I was really impressed with Seasons Will Fall.  I would actually rank it number two behind Burden of Truth (their best by far IMO).  Very solid release; you might have to play it a few times to let it soak in.

[bl5150]

Will do  - I agree about Burden of Truth btw.    Almost wore out the CD playing Heal You there for a while.

[Big Hath]

yeah, BoT is great.  Love that chorus riff on Sentenced.

[wolfking]

Does anyone have an opinion on the latest CIIC  (Seasons Will Fall)?    I'm just sneaking my first listen and my initial impression is that it's pretty uninspired/by the numbers.  Solid but not much more.  Will give it a second spin in the next 48 hrs.

I was really impressed with Seasons Will Fall.  I would actually rank it number two behind Burden of Truth (their best by far IMO).  Very solid release; you might have to play it a few times to let it soak in.

I really loved it too.  It took a while to grow for me too actually, but like Jason, it could be second fav also behind Burden.

[The Dark Master]

I haven't listened to SWF since around the time it came out, which was nearly a year ago.  I enjoyed it, a lot, but it didn't really have much staying power with me.  I should probably go back and revisit it, though.  I enjoy CIIC immensely, although not quite as much as JOP or TSO.  As much as I love Zak's voice, what I really adored most about Savatage was Jon's (and later, Paul's) songwriting, so I naturally tend to gravitate more towards the post-Savatage projects where Jon is one of the dominant songwriters.