Author Topic: The Savatage Thread  (Read 35460 times)

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Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #105 on: August 19, 2011, 01:26:42 AM »
I'm considering getting that album soon.

Just to be safe, you should get them all.  Hell, even their weakest album, Fight for the Rock, has some must-hear Sava classics.

Offline Gadough

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #106 on: August 19, 2011, 01:31:31 AM »
I've never listened to Fight For The Rock. I kind of don't want to. I don't want my opinion of the band to be even slightly tarnished.
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Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #107 on: August 19, 2011, 01:44:33 AM »
I've never listened to Fight For The Rock. I kind of don't want to. I don't want my opinion of the band to be even slightly tarnished.

About half of it is pretty good:  The title track is pretty cool, Edge of Midnight is FUCKING AWSOME (imagine if Dio wrote a song for a Castlevania game  :metal) and Hyde, She's only Rock and Roll, and Red Light Paradise are all quality pre-HOTMK Sava cuts.  As for the rest.............  Out on the Streets, Crying For Your Love, and Lady in Disguise are all ok, but the original versions of those three songs are much better (the original OOTS is on Sirens (I have no idea why they decided to release the same song twice), CFYL was originally called Fighting for Your Love and that version can be found on the remaster of Dungeons, and the original LID can be found on the remastered version of Sirens).  As for the other two tracks, they are both cover tunes that I personally find unbearable and never listen to.

Offline Orthogonal

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #108 on: September 08, 2011, 10:46:42 PM »
It's good to see some fellow 'Tage fans. I was a HUGE fan back in the day, it's a shame they just kind of fizzled. I wish them all the best with TSO, but it's unfortunate Savatage never gave them the fame and income they deserved. I can't believe it was 2003 since they released Poets and Madmen. The time sure does fly.

I'm going to have to give Edge of Thorns a spin now for old times sake. :metal

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #109 on: September 08, 2011, 10:55:15 PM »
It's good to see some fellow 'Tage fans. I was a HUGE fan back in the day, it's a shame they just kind of fizzled. I wish them all the best with TSO, but it's unfortunate Savatage never gave them the fame and income they deserved. I can't believe it was 2003 since they released Poets and Madmen. The time sure does fly.

I'm going to have to give Edge of Thorns a spin now for old times sake. :metal

Welcome!   Always nice to see someone who appreciates this almighty band.  It is nice they at least got the success they did with TSO, but it is a shame they could never reach that level as Savatage.  Hell, the song that made TSO so famous was originally a Savatage track anyways!  I guess it just goes to show how crucial a name can be in determining the potential mainstream appeal of a band. 

But anyways, just post here anytime you want to talk about 'Tage.  TSO is between albums now and Savatage hasn't done an album since 2001, so this thread hasn't been very happening as of late, but if you post here, Wolf, Gadough, myself or any of the other big Sava fans on DTF would love to talk about this amazing band.   :metal

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #110 on: September 12, 2011, 01:52:22 PM »
Hey guys, Dead Winter Dead is very close to winning album of the year for 1995.  Go vote for it!

http://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=27652.0

Offline Gadough

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #111 on: September 12, 2011, 02:05:30 PM »
Oh man, I hate to vote against Dead Winter Dead because it's such a fantastic album. But Symbolic is my favorite metal album ever.
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Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #112 on: September 12, 2011, 05:18:58 PM »
Was just cranking the Edge of Thorns disc yesterday........what a disc and what a voice on ZS.........anyone else a fan of the song "Shotgun Innocence".......I think it was included on an import version of EofT; wish it would have been included in the regular version.  It was included on an import best of and Poets and Madmen

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #113 on: September 12, 2011, 05:24:32 PM »
Was just cranking the Edge of Thorns disc yesterday........what a disc and what a voice on ZS.........anyone else a fan of the song "Shotgun Innocence".......I think it was included on an import version of EofT; wish it would have been included in the regular version.  It was included on an import best of and Poets and Madmen

Yeah, I have that one of Poets and Madman, good song.

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #114 on: September 12, 2011, 11:34:19 PM »
Shotgun Innocence is an amazing freaking song.  Absoultely love it!   Like so many other songs on that record, it just has that perfect balance of Criss' guitar wizardry, Zack's phenomenal vox, Johnny and Doc's killer rhythms, and Jon and Paul's pure song writing genius.  I also think the title track is quite possibly my favourite album opener of all time, easily one of the best songs in the history of a band that was able to just crank out classic tracks in unlimited numbers.  I really wish there were more live videos from the EoT tour; allegedly, it had one of the best touring lineups in the band's history.   :metal

Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #115 on: September 13, 2011, 06:10:17 PM »
I bought that two disc best of last year which included a DVD w/ Zack in the band.  Unfortunetely the disc had a different code and I couldn't play it on my player.  The Zack era is my favorite Savatage era without question.  I like TSO but I always thought Zack would have/should have been the lead singer of the band; I would've enjoyed TSO much more.  At Christmas time when I listen to TSO, the vocals kind of wear on me a bit- if Zack was singing, it would be a different story.

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #116 on: September 13, 2011, 09:12:42 PM »
I bought that two disc best of last year which included a DVD w/ Zack in the band.  Unfortunetely the disc had a different code and I couldn't play it on my player.  The Zack era is my favorite Savatage era without question.  I like TSO but I always thought Zack would have/should have been the lead singer of the band; I would've enjoyed TSO much more.  At Christmas time when I listen to TSO, the vocals kind of wear on me a bit- if Zack was singing, it would be a different story.

Totally agreed.  From what I understand, when they were writing the first TSO album, Zack and Paul O'Neill had a long discussion about whether or not Zack should be the lead singer of TSO.  Zack said that he felt TSO would stand on it's own apart from Savatage better if he was not the lead singer and played more a supporting role.  His hiatus from Savatage in 2001-2002, as well as his commitment to Circle II Circle from 2003 onwards further limited his involvement in TSO.  Frankly, I think it is a damn shame, as Zack one of my favourite vocalists of all time, and I would have an easier time accepting TSO as the current incarnation of Savatage (as Jon and the others constantly say it is) if Zack was the one up front on stage.

In no way do I intend for any of that to be a slight against the TSO singers.  Many of them are amazing in their own right, and I really feel that vocalists like Andrew Ross and Jeff Scott Soto are absolutely phenomenal singers, giving Jon and Zack's parts all the passion and justice they deserve.  However, as Jon has made very clear, TSO is the future of Savatage, and with TSO currently embracing their Savatage history a bit more openly as of late (TSO has been playing Savatage songs more consistently, plus Night Castle had numerous musical references to Savatage and stylistically was a 'Tage record in all but name) , I feel it would be appropriate if Zack were to return to TSO/Savatage on a more full-time basis.  In a recent interview with Zack, he expressed interest in a greater involvement with TSO, so perhaps this is hope that we could see Zack fronting the mighty Savatage+TSO in the not to distant future!
« Last Edit: September 13, 2011, 09:32:20 PM by The Dark Master »

Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #117 on: September 13, 2011, 11:04:25 PM »
Would be cool if Zack had a bigger role.  There is no question he has the perfect voice for TSO.  As I've said before, IMO, Zack and Ripper Owens are the two most underated vocalists in heavy metal/hard rock.

Offline obscure

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #118 on: September 14, 2011, 10:36:08 AM »
I'm a huge fan....
I did Meet & Greet at Jon Oliva's Pain gig 2 years ago... I have to say ... it was painful to see him in such a unhealthy situation.... He had to take a 15 minute break before seeing a new fan each time... and I couldn't look at him properly....  :'(

his voice is still awesome though....

Offline Laich21DT

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #119 on: September 14, 2011, 12:56:49 PM »
Back in early '04, Savatage was my second favorite band and was threatening to topple DT as my favorite. I just couldn't believe the epicness of records like Streets,Dead Winter Dead, and The Wake of Magellan. While I was more into their concept albums, I also loved the other two I owned Edge of Thorns and Handful of Rain. While I appreciate Jon Oliva's status as the Mountain King  :lol, but I prefer Zak's voice, easily.

As I mentioned, 'Tage was threatening to become my #1 band, then I saw an Evening with Dream Theater, where they played all of a Mind Beside Itself, Metropolis pt. 1, and A Change of Seasons as an encore. Let's just say, I was revitalized as a DT fan, and began to lose intrest in Savatage.

I also learned at some point that 'Tage had never even been to Seattle (where I'm from) for a show, which I found quite dissapointing. However, I guess I could go see them as TSO any winter I choose...
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Offline bondrkm

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #120 on: September 28, 2011, 01:22:05 PM »
I'm also a bigtime Sava fan.  I've noticed that even when Oliva does tour now it never makes it to the West coast.  If memory serves me correct, in 01 they were scheduled to play the west coast, then 9/11 happened and it changed everything.  I hadn't moved to Seattle yet, so I wouldn't have seen it anyways.   Also, I think they played SLC on the HOR tour, but I was an idiot and missed it.

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #121 on: December 12, 2011, 01:24:23 AM »
http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=166666

Sooooo............. Zak and Caffery are going to be playing The Wake of Magellan in it's entirety at Waken Open Air next year.   :metal

Wish I could go  :'(



Incidentally, in the comments section, some dude says he talked to JLM at a TSO concert recently, and Johnny basically told him that the main reason Savatage doesn't do anything anymore is because Paul O'Neill devotes all his time to TSO, but won't let the band do a record or tour without him.  .........

Now it is Blabbermouth, so I take it with a grain of salt, but honestly, I have begun to suspect as much.  Considering that all of the 'Tage members have no problem finding time to do side projects, play a shit-ton of Sava songs at solo concerts, and they all make guest appearances with each other, both in the studio and at shows, yet   somehow they can't do anything as SAVATAGE, makes me wonder if Paul, not Jon Oliva, actually owns the name, which would explain why we get JOP instead of new 'Tage records (really, Jon Oliva doing solo records that sound so much like Savatage is like Dave Mustaine doing a solo record that bears a heavy resemblance to Megadeth)  :censored 
« Last Edit: December 12, 2011, 01:37:22 AM by The Dark Master »

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #122 on: December 12, 2011, 03:12:15 AM »
Fuck Paul O'Neil.  He must own a large chunk of the name as you say.  If Jon, Johnny, Jeff, Chris, Zak and even Al are into it, they really don't need Paul, IMO, he held the band back in many ways.

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #123 on: December 12, 2011, 01:51:08 PM »
Yeah, he may deserve some credit for helping to make Savatage into the amazing band they became, but I really think that later on in their careers, he started to hold them back.


I've been listening to a lot of JOP over the past year and a half, and I can totally see how it could be the stylistic continuation of Poets and Madmen.  Seriously, Caffery, Zack, Johnny and Doc should just join JOP.  Just be Savatage without the name if Paul won't let them use it.  All the real fans will figure out what's going on, and I think it would go a long way towards satisfying the hunger Sava fans have for a 'Tage reunion.   

Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #124 on: December 12, 2011, 04:51:43 PM »
I think there is a realization on all ends that there is still an interest and desire to hear Savatage.  That greatest hits that was released last year, while not the best selection of songs, showed that Savatage hasn't been forgotten.  While TSO is the money maker, Savatage deserves a proper farewell.

Offline wolfking

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #125 on: December 12, 2011, 08:43:53 PM »
Seriously, Caffery, Zack, Johnny and Doc should just join JOP.

This is seriously a fabulous idea.  That would satisfy me 100%.

Offline Progmetty

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #126 on: December 15, 2011, 12:39:04 AM »
I dunno if I mentioned this before but I'm seeing T.S.O live Christmas week :D
Fingers crossed for Mozart & Madness/Memories.
Is there a T.S.O thread or we can just use this one?
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Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #127 on: December 15, 2011, 03:20:35 AM »
Ive seen TSO twice and was blown away.  I think they translate live much much better then in the studio; much heavier.

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #128 on: December 15, 2011, 04:21:37 AM »
I saw them for my second time on the 3rd and they were amazing.  Phenomenal players and performers backed up by the best lightshow you will ever see.  The level of intensity and passion in their live shows far outstrips what you hear on the records; I sometimes think they tone down the sound of their recordings so as not to drive away potential fans who may be easily turned off by something that "metal".

I dunno if I mentioned this before but I'm seeing T.S.O live Christmas week :D
Fingers crossed for Mozart & Madness/Memories.
Is there a T.S.O thread or we can just use this one?

Both last year and this year, they played Mozart and Memories at the start of the second half of the show.

There is no TSO thread as such.  It seems to me that much of the TSO discussion on this forum in pretty limited to this Savatage thread.  I would not be adverse to the creation of a separate TSO thread, but any discussion of TSO, just like any discussion of any other project of Savatage members, ultimately leads back to the almighty 'Tage anyways, so creating a separate thread may be a bit redundant. 

So, in other words, this thread is probably the best place to start a TSO discussion on DTF.   ;)

Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #129 on: December 15, 2011, 12:33:00 PM »
Thats a good point.  I guess if the albums were more metal, it would turn off a great deal of the public.  But by getting them to the live show, they can turn it up many notches and people won't be turned off because of the spectacle in front of them.  I just listened to their Christmas triology box set and even though it's enjoyable, it can be somewhat of a chore to get through.

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #130 on: December 15, 2011, 01:54:42 PM »
Thats a good point.  I guess if the albums were more metal, it would turn off a great deal of the public.  But by getting them to the live show, they can turn it up many notches and people won't be turned off because of the spectacle in front of them.  I just listened to their Christmas triology box set and even though it's enjoyable, it can be somewhat of a chore to get through.

Totally.  I very rarely listen to the Christmas albums in their entirety and, truth be told, I rarely listen to the Christmas albums outside of November and December.  There are just not enough dynamics, drama or variety on those records for me to be able to  comfortably listen to them from top to bottom on a regular basis. I really think the main reasons they did three Christmas albums was because a) their first big hit was a Christmas song, so they decided to cash in on what they knew would make money, and b) their Christmas shows are their single largest source of income, and I am certain they wanted a wide selection of Christmas tracks to perform at those shows (remember, TSO did not start touring until 1999, after the second Christmas album had been released.) 

Releasing Beethoven's Last Night between the second and third x-mas records was probably a strategic decision to prevent the band from becoming merely a Christmas act in the eyes of the public, and to show that they had musical ambitions outside of the holiday season.  I really think records like BLN, Night Castle and the upcoming Romanov and Gutter Ballet are in all likelihood the kind of albums  Paul, Bob and Jon really wanted to make (Romanov was written back in 1993, and the original Gutter Ballet was written in the late 70's)  but they first wanted to build up a lot of cash first so that they could have the freedom to do what really mattered to them on their own terms.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2011, 02:54:25 PM by The Dark Master »

Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #131 on: December 15, 2011, 05:05:13 PM »
There is no chance I would ever listen to TSO in July or August lol.  Mid December is the only time.

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #132 on: December 15, 2011, 07:03:04 PM »
There is no chance I would ever listen to TSO in July or August lol.  Mid December is the only time.

Man I so disagree.  'other stories is just awesome, start to finish.  Sure, it's especially special this time of year, but it's great at anytime.  Quick to skip over the four acoustic carols sure, but otherwise it's great.

I've seen their live show every year for the past 5.  Going again (east coast tour) on the 28th I think.  I'm hoping for an improvement this year.  Last year, they lost a handful of people (Alex, I believe Jay Pierce, and some others), and it was not as good as prior years.  For instance, I remember the first time I saw Old City Bar, and was absolutely floored.  Last year, whoever did it was extremely garbly, and the tempo was way too slow.

Net of it, they put on a fantastic show, no question.  I just hope they return to form this year.
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Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #133 on: December 15, 2011, 11:34:43 PM »
Yes, it's a good cd, no question about it.  But if it's a hot summer night and I'm going for a cruise and want to listen to something Savatage related, I'm cranking out Power of the Night or Hall of the Mountain King; not Christmas Eve and other stories.  I've seen them live twice, but haven't seen them for three years.  They do seem to have a turnover rate.  I just checked their website to see their latest lineup; they now include Ronny Munroe from Metal Church.  That will be interesting to hear.

Offline dongringo

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #134 on: December 15, 2011, 11:39:01 PM »
Just listened to Gutter Ballet for the first time in years. Man, I forgot how good that album is. They were really on to something back then.
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Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #135 on: December 15, 2011, 11:59:02 PM »
I didn't get into Savatage until the early 2000's and Gutter Ballet was one of the first songs I had heard from them.  I saw the title track video on some VH1 classic metal show and immediately went and ordered the disc from amazon.

Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #136 on: December 18, 2011, 04:54:56 AM »
There is no chance I would ever listen to TSO in July or August lol.  Mid December is the only time.

I listen to Beethoven's Last Night, in it's entirety, on a year round basis.  Other then that, I may listen to a few of my favourite tracks from the other albums here and there throughout the year, but generally speaking, I do the vast majority of my TSO listening in November & December.

Offline Progmetty

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #137 on: December 22, 2011, 12:36:41 PM »
That new T.S.O track Who I Am was offered to me to download for free when I got my tickets for the show and I didn't get. Now I can't access that feature again.
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Offline The Dark Master

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #138 on: December 22, 2011, 02:25:23 PM »
That new T.S.O track Who I Am was offered to me to download for free when I got my tickets for the show and I didn't get. Now I can't access that feature again.

Ticketmaster sent me an email with a link to download the song.  The link took me to the TSO store and I had to make an account there in order to download the file.  For some reason, firefox was being a real biotch about opening the download page, so I had to open it in internet explorer, but when I finally got it to open, it just started to automatically download.

Offline jjrock88

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Re: The Savatage Thread
« Reply #139 on: December 22, 2011, 03:21:01 PM »
Has anyone heard the track, is it any good?