Author Topic: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread  (Read 137486 times)

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Online cramx3

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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #805 on: February 06, 2017, 01:24:09 PM »
Personally, I thought Ozzy sounded very good (not GREAT, but very good) and to see the legends - tony and geezer - doing that intro to War Pigs, the way it's supposed to be, and that intro to After Forever... well, it's maybe more an intangible than simply "they're at the top of their game!".

Yea, I thought they sounded overall pretty good. Maybe at the end of the tour they are pretty tired, but over the summer I thought they were way better than when I saw them in 2005.

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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #806 on: February 06, 2017, 02:00:34 PM »
It's officially over now, they did their very last show together last night in Birmingham.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIlPLCc0WnA

Maybe I'm being a grumpy old bugger, but as far I'm concerned the so-called reunion was no such thing without Bill. To quote Ozzy on the Last Supper DVD. "Black Sabbath is Tony Iommi, Bill Ward, Geezer Butler and Ozzy Osborne". Bill Ward's treatment was nothing short of disgraceful.

Except that Bill is his own worst enemy.  It's not the "treatment of Bill" that's so bad.  It's BILL that's so bad.  There is literally no such thing as "an unsignable contract".   If he wanted to do it, he could have; he was holding out for things that he had never received at any point in his time in the band, and yet now, he wants to play hardball?  AND make it public?  The funny thing is, everyone jumped to conclusions and blamed "Sharon", but IOMMI was the guy that was most vocal in "this is ridiculous".

I saw "The End" show in Mansfield, MA in August, and Bill could not have drummed that show.  He just couldn't have done it.
I thought Fake Bill Ward did a great job, but it wasn't the same at all. And I'm not sure if Bill would have been able to do the tour or not, but it seems they could have looked into that before assuming he couldn't. He says he could have, and he's on youtube playing drums last year looking just fine.
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Offline ozzy554

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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #807 on: February 06, 2017, 02:11:42 PM »
I was lucky enough to see them on the 13 and The End tour. While I liked the set they did for the 13 tour more, their performance when I saw them on The End tour was much better. The band sounded great and Ozzy only missed one note that was really noticeable. Also it will forever be sentimental for me as it was the last show I was able to attend with my dad.
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #808 on: February 07, 2017, 01:43:15 AM »
Just saw a snippet on news quoting Tony Iommi about how he / they are not ruling out anything, that he's just sick of touring and does not want to do anymore long tours but they're all open to something.

So, once again, confirmation that you should never ever believe a rock band when they have a "final" gig  :D
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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #809 on: February 07, 2017, 07:02:15 AM »
It's officially over now, they did their very last show together last night in Birmingham.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIlPLCc0WnA

Maybe I'm being a grumpy old bugger, but as far I'm concerned the so-called reunion was no such thing without Bill. To quote Ozzy on the Last Supper DVD. "Black Sabbath is Tony Iommi, Bill Ward, Geezer Butler and Ozzy Osborne". Bill Ward's treatment was nothing short of disgraceful.

Except that Bill is his own worst enemy.  It's not the "treatment of Bill" that's so bad.  It's BILL that's so bad.  There is literally no such thing as "an unsignable contract".   If he wanted to do it, he could have; he was holding out for things that he had never received at any point in his time in the band, and yet now, he wants to play hardball?  AND make it public?  The funny thing is, everyone jumped to conclusions and blamed "Sharon", but IOMMI was the guy that was most vocal in "this is ridiculous".

I saw "The End" show in Mansfield, MA in August, and Bill could not have drummed that show.  He just couldn't have done it.
I thought Fake Bill Ward did a great job, but it wasn't the same at all. And I'm not sure if Bill would have been able to do the tour or not, but it seems they could have looked into that before assuming he couldn't. He says he could have, and he's on youtube playing drums last year looking just fine.

Remember too that if I'm not mistaken, they've had tours booked with him TWICE now (I know at least once) that had to be scuttled because he COULDN'T do it.   Look, I love Bill.  Anyone who's seen the video of them back in "Paris" (It's called "Live In Paris", but I think it was recorded in Brussels) knows he's a monster when he's on. He was every bit a part of the Sabbath sound as anyone else (and in my opinion, no one has captured that sound 100% since) but I was okay watching what I saw last August.   To me, seeing Geezer and Tony together is like 80% of it.   

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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #810 on: February 08, 2017, 01:12:37 AM »
Think I read something a while ago that Iomi said he'd wished they could have been nicer to Bill, 'but I don't know what the fuck happened'. Yeah, maybe some day....
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Offline bundy

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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #811 on: February 08, 2017, 01:40:17 AM »
To me, seeing Geezer and Tony together is like 80% of it.

That's pretty much how I feel. Having seen Heaven and Hell  :metal back when they toured Australia in 2007, I'll die happy. The fact that I'll never get to see the original Black Sabbath disappoints me, but I was never going to shell out my hard earned cash to see Ozzy, Tony, Geezer and some other bloke.

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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #812 on: February 08, 2017, 06:32:12 AM »
To me, seeing Geezer and Tony together is like 80% of it.

That's pretty much how I feel. Having seen Heaven and Hell  :metal back when they toured Australia in 2007, I'll die happy. The fact that I'll never get to see the original Black Sabbath disappoints me, but I was never going to shell out my hard earned cash to see Ozzy, Tony, Geezer and some other bloke.

I respectfully say, "your loss".   Watching the three of them having fun and playing classics (if you're a Dead fan, you can certainly criticize the setlist, but for what it was, it was SOLID) was a really entertaining moment.  I've seen Ozzy solo (once) and Sabbath with Tony twice, and having seen the show this past August, I feel like I can rest easy knowing I've "seen Sabbath the way it's supposed to be". 

Offline Nel

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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #813 on: February 28, 2017, 01:43:14 PM »
Band's Twitter said the final copies of The End EP that was sold at show's are being sold through eBay now. I picked up a copy, but fuck, was that expensive (over $30). Part of it goes to St. Jude's for charity, though.

Just a heads up, if anyone wanted a copy before it disappears forever.
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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #814 on: February 28, 2017, 03:43:21 PM »
It's officially over now, they did their very last show together last night in Birmingham.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIlPLCc0WnA

Maybe I'm being a grumpy old bugger, but as far I'm concerned the so-called reunion was no such thing without Bill. To quote Ozzy on the Last Supper DVD. "Black Sabbath is Tony Iommi, Bill Ward, Geezer Butler and Ozzy Osborne". Bill Ward's treatment was nothing short of disgraceful.

Except that Bill is his own worst enemy.  It's not the "treatment of Bill" that's so bad.  It's BILL that's so bad.  There is literally no such thing as "an unsignable contract".   If he wanted to do it, he could have; he was holding out for things that he had never received at any point in his time in the band, and yet now, he wants to play hardball?  AND make it public?  The funny thing is, everyone jumped to conclusions and blamed "Sharon", but IOMMI was the guy that was most vocal in "this is ridiculous".

I saw "The End" show in Mansfield, MA in August, and Bill could not have drummed that show.  He just couldn't have done it.
I thought Fake Bill Ward did a great job, but it wasn't the same at all. And I'm not sure if Bill would have been able to do the tour or not, but it seems they could have looked into that before assuming he couldn't. He says he could have, and he's on youtube playing drums last year looking just fine.

Remember too that if I'm not mistaken, they've had tours booked with him TWICE now (I know at least once) that had to be scuttled because he COULDN'T do it.   Look, I love Bill.  Anyone who's seen the video of them back in "Paris" (It's called "Live In Paris", but I think it was recorded in Brussels) knows he's a monster when he's on. He was every bit a part of the Sabbath sound as anyone else (and in my opinion, no one has captured that sound 100% since) but I was okay watching what I saw last August.   To me, seeing Geezer and Tony together is like 80% of it.
There's a DVD from the Never Say Die tour where Ward steels the show. Totally fucked up, big giant caveman beard, monster drum kit, everything you want to see. You should check it out.

Like I said, I was alright with Fake Bill Ward. I thought he did a great job. It's just that I saw the real deal way back when and recall him really kicking my ass. I never saw the fake one make me think "holy shit, check that dude out!" It's like Pino Paladino vs The Ox, or Trujillo vs Newstead. The originals brought something else to the table besides what they played.
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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #815 on: March 01, 2017, 07:07:53 AM »
It's officially over now, they did their very last show together last night in Birmingham.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIlPLCc0WnA

Maybe I'm being a grumpy old bugger, but as far I'm concerned the so-called reunion was no such thing without Bill. To quote Ozzy on the Last Supper DVD. "Black Sabbath is Tony Iommi, Bill Ward, Geezer Butler and Ozzy Osborne". Bill Ward's treatment was nothing short of disgraceful.

Except that Bill is his own worst enemy.  It's not the "treatment of Bill" that's so bad.  It's BILL that's so bad.  There is literally no such thing as "an unsignable contract".   If he wanted to do it, he could have; he was holding out for things that he had never received at any point in his time in the band, and yet now, he wants to play hardball?  AND make it public?  The funny thing is, everyone jumped to conclusions and blamed "Sharon", but IOMMI was the guy that was most vocal in "this is ridiculous".

I saw "The End" show in Mansfield, MA in August, and Bill could not have drummed that show.  He just couldn't have done it.
I thought Fake Bill Ward did a great job, but it wasn't the same at all. And I'm not sure if Bill would have been able to do the tour or not, but it seems they could have looked into that before assuming he couldn't. He says he could have, and he's on youtube playing drums last year looking just fine.

Remember too that if I'm not mistaken, they've had tours booked with him TWICE now (I know at least once) that had to be scuttled because he COULDN'T do it.   Look, I love Bill.  Anyone who's seen the video of them back in "Paris" (It's called "Live In Paris", but I think it was recorded in Brussels) knows he's a monster when he's on. He was every bit a part of the Sabbath sound as anyone else (and in my opinion, no one has captured that sound 100% since) but I was okay watching what I saw last August.   To me, seeing Geezer and Tony together is like 80% of it.
There's a DVD from the Never Say Die tour where Ward steels the show. Totally fucked up, big giant caveman beard, monster drum kit, everything you want to see. You should check it out.

Like I said, I was alright with Fake Bill Ward. I thought he did a great job. It's just that I saw the real deal way back when and recall him really kicking my ass. I never saw the fake one make me think "holy shit, check that dude out!" It's like Pino Paladino vs The Ox, or Trujillo vs Newstead. The originals brought something else to the table besides what they played.

I don't disagree with any of that, I just don't think NOT having the original drops it down to "no go".  I saw the Quadrophenia tour back in the late '90's, with Zak Starkey and Pino, and just watching Roger and Pete interact was enough for me.  I get that it wasn't like seeing Isle of Wight in '69, but it was still The Who, and it kicked ass. 

Offline Cyclopssss

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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #816 on: March 02, 2017, 12:29:32 AM »
I think any Sabbath with Ozzy and Iommi would be enoug for me to go. The Who, the same thing I guess. Just hearing those songs live while these guys are still alive, I'd see them. 
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Online cramx3

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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #817 on: August 17, 2017, 04:56:43 PM »

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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #818 on: August 18, 2017, 06:44:56 AM »
I was able to get a boot of the show I saw - Mansfield, MA - and both of the Birmingham shows.   They really sounded good.  Ozzy was flat at times, but not distractingly so (and at least he was singing, right?) and the band was on fire.  They went out on a good note, pun intended.   :)

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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #819 on: August 18, 2017, 07:09:37 AM »
Yea I kind of thought Ozzy wouldn't be the greatest live anymore, but to my surprise, he sounded really well at the NJ show and of course the band sounded fantastic.

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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #820 on: September 27, 2017, 12:33:24 PM »
"I" may be the greatest metal song ever conceived.  :metal :metal

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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #821 on: September 27, 2017, 12:39:09 PM »
It's not even my favorite on its own album but yes, it's quite great. Heard it live and it rocked  :metal
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Offline jammindude

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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #822 on: August 28, 2018, 08:24:11 PM »
Forgive me if I asked this a long time ago and forgot.   It *might* not even be a Black Sabbath song, but it definitely involved Ronnie James Dio. 

I have a very distant memory of a live song where Dio goes off on some rant about being invited in a vision to follow a sheep, but in the end he tells the sheep to go away, because he's going straight to hell.   

The guy who showed it to me on a cassette said that it was from a live performance where this almost spoken word portion of the song had been extended and embellished from the original version.   Do any of you hard core Dio or Sabbath fans have any idea what I'm talking about? 
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Offline TAC

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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #823 on: August 28, 2018, 08:31:43 PM »
It's not a sheep, but a "shape". This was during live versions of Heaven and Hell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3i-2nYatmU

Section starts at 7:40

would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #824 on: August 29, 2018, 06:57:41 AM »
Are you sure?   He was attacked and almost died at the hands of a garden gnome.

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/ronnie-james-dio-talks-about-being-attacked-by-killer-garden-gnome/

(Which, by the way, was up for auction, and I almost - ALMOST - bought it).

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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #825 on: August 29, 2018, 10:26:34 AM »
@ Stadler  :rollin

@ TAC Thanks....that's definitely the rant.     The version I heard was when I was at job corps in 1986, so I'm sure it was an older recording.   (does he do this on Live Evil maybe?)  but it might have been a bootleg.   Seemed like the one I heard was a longer rant, but that is most definitely the gist of it. 
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Offline TAC

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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #826 on: August 29, 2018, 12:58:48 PM »
Yes, it's on Live Evil, right after the Southern Cross part of H&H. He has always done it. It may have been how the song was originally written, but I don't know for sure.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Art

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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #827 on: September 01, 2018, 07:13:55 AM »
Listening to Born Again after  long time and...i really like it this time. The actual recordig is terrible, but the songs are mostly cool.

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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #828 on: July 28, 2019, 08:58:47 PM »
Random thought of the evening....

Was Psycho Man the final recording of the original lineup? 
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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #829 on: July 28, 2019, 09:34:37 PM »
Listening to Born Again after  long time and...i really like it this time. The actual recordig is terrible, but the songs are mostly cool.
Listen to the remixed version, it’s really immensely better:
https://open.spotify.com/album/3rdD2LHEFi6FxrhlBA3Dot?si=nJrC-s_ER2aDbdq81Zjuyg
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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #830 on: July 29, 2019, 12:17:13 AM »
Listening to Born Again after  long time and...i really like it this time. The actual recordig is terrible, but the songs are mostly cool.
Listen to the remixed version, it’s really immensely better:
https://open.spotify.com/album/3rdD2LHEFi6FxrhlBA3Dot?si=nJrC-s_ER2aDbdq81Zjuyg

I'll need to check this out.  I wonder if I can get a version other than Spotify.
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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #831 on: August 02, 2019, 07:06:06 AM »
Random thought of the evening....

Was Psycho Man the final recording of the original lineup?

As far as we can tell...  there are rumors that there are some tracks that were recorded in 2001 with Rick Rubin.   I don't know if these songs were reused for 13 or not, but it was rumored that they had Ward in, not Bordin (who played the tours around then) or Welk (who played on '13'). 

Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #832 on: August 02, 2019, 11:08:02 AM »
https://youtu.be/pU7mJvGmLQo?t=991

They played a new song in 2001 that was never released and seems to be forgotten. It also seems (to me anyway) to be incomplete and uninspired.

Offline Mister Gold

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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #833 on: March 24, 2020, 06:39:09 AM »
Been on a Sabbath binge. Interestingly enough, it seems the Tony Martin era of the band is finally clicking for me! Interestingly, Headless Cross and Tyr both feel like a natural conclusion of the musical shift from Heaven & Hell. Possibly more so than The Mob Rules was, despite my personal affection for that album. Maybe Geoff Nichols was more involved in the songwriting on those two albums?

Also damn, Martin's pipes on those two albums! In general, that might have been the most technically proficient era of the band. It doesn't quite feel like Sabbath proper to me without Geezer, but the bass work on Headless Cross is especially nice. And of course, Cozy Powell giving a killer performance as always on the drums!

Wish these albums were available on iTunes. I'd buy 'em in a heartbeat.
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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #834 on: March 24, 2020, 07:57:51 AM »
Been on a Sabbath binge. Interestingly enough, it seems the Tony Martin era of the band is finally clicking for me! Interestingly, Headless Cross and Tyr both feel like a natural conclusion of the musical shift from Heaven & Hell. Possibly more so than The Mob Rules was, despite my personal affection for that album. Maybe Geoff Nichols was more involved in the songwriting on those two albums?

Also damn, Martin's pipes on those two albums! In general, that might have been the most technically proficient era of the band. It doesn't quite feel like Sabbath proper to me without Geezer, but the bass work on Headless Cross is especially nice. And of course, Cozy Powell giving a killer performance as always on the drums!

Wish these albums were available on iTunes. I'd buy 'em in a heartbeat.

SUPPOSEDLY, Iommi is preparing that last phase ("Headless..." through "Forbidden") for re-release in deluxe versions.  I'll be all over that.  I saw the Cross Purposes tour and the Forbidden tour (almost exactly one year apart, same venue, same opening act (Motorhead)).  CP had Geezer and Bobby Rondinelli, and the F tour had Neil Murray and Cozy Powell.  The first show blew away the second one.  It was at that point that I decided there was no Sabbath, truly, without Geezer.  He adds SO much to the sound that it's noticeable when he's not there.

Offline Mister Gold

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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #835 on: March 24, 2020, 08:14:52 AM »
Been on a Sabbath binge. Interestingly enough, it seems the Tony Martin era of the band is finally clicking for me! Interestingly, Headless Cross and Tyr both feel like a natural conclusion of the musical shift from Heaven & Hell. Possibly more so than The Mob Rules was, despite my personal affection for that album. Maybe Geoff Nichols was more involved in the songwriting on those two albums?

Also damn, Martin's pipes on those two albums! In general, that might have been the most technically proficient era of the band. It doesn't quite feel like Sabbath proper to me without Geezer, but the bass work on Headless Cross is especially nice. And of course, Cozy Powell giving a killer performance as always on the drums!

Wish these albums were available on iTunes. I'd buy 'em in a heartbeat.

SUPPOSEDLY, Iommi is preparing that last phase ("Headless..." through "Forbidden") for re-release in deluxe versions.  I'll be all over that.  I saw the Cross Purposes tour and the Forbidden tour (almost exactly one year apart, same venue, same opening act (Motorhead)).  CP had Geezer and Bobby Rondinelli, and the F tour had Neil Murray and Cozy Powell.  The first show blew away the second one.  It was at that point that I decided there was no Sabbath, truly, without Geezer.  He adds SO much to the sound that it's noticeable when he's not there.

That'd be nice! Hopefully they'll also re-release the albums digitally too.

And yeah, I have to agree. Geezer might not necessarily be the most accomplished bassist ever, but he's got a vibe and style that feels just as integral to Black Sabbath as Tony's guitar work. You can switch the singer or the drummer around, but it just doesn't feel quite like Sabbath without Geezer to compliment Tony's guitarwork.
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Offline TAC

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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #836 on: March 24, 2020, 08:17:09 AM »
Geezer Butler is pretty accomplished! :D


I might be all over some remasters. Except Forbidden. :lol

would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Mister Gold

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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #837 on: March 24, 2020, 08:26:39 AM »
Geezer Butler is pretty accomplished! :D


I might be all over some remasters. Except Forbidden. :lol

:D Heh, yeah, he absolutely is. I meant to write 'most technical bassist,' but clearly I had a misstep along the way. :lol

I'd definitely pick up Headless Cross and Tyr. I need to get a bit more used to Crossed Purposes before deciding whether I'd get it or not. Though if Tony were to release it in a deluxe edition with a CD version of one of the several live shows from the CP tour with Geezer as a bonus disk, I'd probably buy it in a heartbeat. I watched the CP lineup play Symptom of the Universe live on YouTube earlier and damn would that be nice to have to listen to at leisure.
Beyond the limits of the mortal frame
To the farthest boundary of eternity
Where I, the Cosmic Sea
Watch the little ego floating in me.

Offline TAC

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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #838 on: March 24, 2020, 08:28:35 AM »
Cross Purposes is my favorite of the bunch.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Online El Barto

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Re: Black Sabbath Discussion Thread
« Reply #839 on: March 24, 2020, 08:37:13 AM »
I'm a Tyr man, myself. Cozy Powell and Neil Murray, while not Geezer and Ward, were great, and Tony Martin had settled in nicely. Really, I think they're all great albums right up to the surprisingly dreadful Forbidden.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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