Black Sabbath Discussion Thread

[Stadler]

For Dio's peak, I'm partial to Holy Diver.   

[KevShmev]

Yeah, Heaven and Hell is by some accounts (not mine, but close) their best album.

By TAC's account it is.

I think it's top 5, but I can't say it's better than the first two, Sabbath Bloody Sabbath or Sabotage.

[Mosh]

Add me to the list of putting Heaven and Hell as all time #1. As much as I love Ozzy era Sabbath, every single album has at least one song that just isn't that good. Everything on H&H is awesome and Dio is a much better singer.

[TAC]

For Dio's peak, I'm partial to Holy Diver.

I'm willing to give you that. But those two albums back to back are it.

Add me to the list of putting Heaven and Hell as all time #1. As much as I love Ozzy era Sabbath, every single album has at least one song that just isn't that good. Everything on H&H is awesome and Dio is a much better singer.

Though I rate H&H very highly, Walk Away is horrible and Lady Evil negligible.

I think it's top 5, but I can't say it's better than the first two, Sabbath Bloody Sabbath or Sabotage.

Rating these things in hindsight does lead to greater objectivity, but H&H had a huge impact on my musical formative years. Ozzy era, believe it or not, had none.

[KevShmev]

Totally understand. I have plenty of albums I rank higher, because they were key in my development as a fan of said band or maybe they were the first album to come out after I got into them, than I might if I simply ranked them all in a vacuum.  I get it. 

[The King in Crimson]

Back to Master of Reality, even though I think it is easily the least best of the first six, I get why so many love it.  It was kind of the start of the whole doom and sludge thing, which became big in the metal world, so I get why that appeals to a lot of people; I am just not a big sludge or doom metal guy, so there ya go.

Disagreed. Vol. 4, for me, is easily the worst of the first six albums. Never understood the love that one gets.

While I like Vol. 4, I find it less focused than the rest of the first five albums, and it pales in comparison with the albums that came before and after it (MOR and SBS).

That's a good way of describing Vol. 4. It does seem a bit... all over the place and not in a good way.

I think it's top 5, but I can't say it's better than the first two, Sabbath Bloody Sabbath or Sabotage.

I would personally put it over the debut and maybe even Sabotage. As much as I love it, Sabotage is all over the place quality wise at times while H&H is just one good song after the next.

Though I rate H&H very highly, Walk Away is horrible and Lady Evil negligible.

I think, compared to some of Sabbath's other questionable songs, these two really aren't that bad to me. Walk Away is not great but Lady Evil is fun.

[Mosh]

I love Lady Evil. I'll agree Walk Away is somewhat forgettable but not bad.

[Stadler]

DUDES!   WTF!!!    "Walk Away" is a Top Ten Sabbath song for me.  Well, maybe Top 15, but it's way up there.   I LOVE that song, and it's one of the few later period examples of where Tony didn't feel like he had to be General Riffmaster von Sludgefest.    I always preferred the Sabbath where it was more... musical.  Spiral Architect, Over To You, Gypsy...  I like the heavy stuff, don't get me wrong (Megalomania and Psychophobia are essential listening for any metal guitarist) but I'll take Tomorrow's Dream over some of the heavier stuff. 

By the way, there's a riff in the middle of "Lady Evil" that gets played once, and I think it's a quote of something else.   I thought for awhile it was ELO "Evil Woman" (there are a lot of ties between ELO and Sabbath: Birmingham, Bev Bevan) but I listened to Evil Woman a couple times and it wasn't there that I could tell.    Any thoughts?   

[jjrock88]

Heaven & Hell is my favorite Sabbath album and top three all time from any band! I just love everything about it and to me there isn't any filler on it. The title track is just epic

[Art]

What are everybody's opinion on Seventh Star? It is clearly a Tony Iommi solo album, but i do like some of it. But i think the partnership between Iommi and Hughes worked much better on the DEP sessions and especially on Fused, which i think is just amazing.

I like how Iommi got to record a "final" album with almost every Sabbath singer (Fused, The Devil You Know, 13). I do wish for a new album with Tony Martin but i know thatīs almost impossible.

[MirrorMask]

Fused is indeed a very great album!

[Stadler]

I understand that Tony Martin has indicated that he WILL be working with Tony in 2017, after the completion of The End tour.   I for one would love that.   I really like Martin, and the Cross Purposes tour was one of my favorite shows ever.  Great setlist, Geezer Butler on bass, and even though Martin was under the weather, still strong.

I liked Seventh Star; I don't know if it's "Sabbath" or not; I think "Sabbath" has commercially been "Iommi", though for me, while I count Eternal Idol, Tyr, and Forbidden, Geezer is a big part of that.   

[Art]

I understand that Tony Martin has indicated that he WILL be working with Tony in 2017, after the completion of The End tour.   I for one would love that. 

Yeah that would be awesome!

[wolfking]

Love Seventh Star, really good album.  Fused is a killer heavy ass record too.

[TAC]

Hah, I don't even know what Fused is!



I'll believe in the Martin thing when I see it. How many things has he been linked to over the years?

[wolfking]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAbM18siZSA

Get that into ya Tim!

[TAC]

Cool. I must've totally ignored that. I must say that having Bob Marlette does not excite me.

[cramx3]

So I haven't been a Sabbath fan, just knew a few songs, but since purchasing a ticket to see them a couple weeks ago, I've been listening and learning the setlist.  Pretty good stuff for the most part, awesome guitar work, but have this question

Dirty Women Live video (NSF)

https://youtu.be/smfNUkp7jWc

So do girls typically take their tops off for this song like they seem to do in the live video?  If so, I am now even more excited to see them 

[Orbert]

The dirty ones do.

[cramx3]

The dirty ones do.

We are talking New Jersey here, plenty of dirty girls 

[Stadler]

That was from the Reunion tour with Bill Ward, and it was likely not from the States (one of the girls was smoking; they won't stop you showing your cans, but they will make you put the butt out).   Let's be honest, though. I think your chances of seeing "boob" (especially young boob) at a Sabbath show in New Jersey is probably only as good as the chances of the girl you going with showing you hers in the car in the parking lot before/after the show. 

[BlobVanDam]

I remember checking out Fused a couple of years ago and being so hugely disappointed.

[cramx3]

That was from the Reunion tour with Bill Ward, and it was likely not from the States (one of the girls was smoking; they won't stop you showing your cans, but they will make you put the butt out).   Let's be honest, though. I think your chances of seeing "boob" (especially young boob) at a Sabbath show in New Jersey is probably only as good as the chances of the girl you going with showing you hers in the car in the parking lot before/after the show.

Yea, I agree, was just shocked to see any at all and was wondering, "wait, is this a thing?!" 

[wolfking]

I remember checking out Fused a couple of years ago and being so hugely disappointed.

Since I think it's a really excellent album, this doesn't surprise me.

[Stadler]

Just saw them in Mansfield, MA.   

The bad:  predicable set (same 14 songs; Ozzy still screwed up the intro to "Behind The Wall Of Sleep");  Ozzy, same "Show me your fucking hands!"; Geezer didn't stray from the same five-foot circle the entire night, and Tony spent 90% of his time WAAAYYYY over on stage left.  Adam Wakeman literally behind a black curtain (though they did introduce him and he poked his head out). 

The good: everything fucking else.  Ozzy sounded great.  I was in the fourth row, center right, and Geezer was right in front of me, and the man is a fucking monster.  Didn't even break a sweat, yet he nailed After Forever, Hand of Doom, Bassically... a king.   Tony is so frustrating; he makes it look SO FUCKING EASY, it's ridiculous.  But not a missed note, and during... Dirty Women I think it was, he extended his solo, and Ozzy just looked at him like "can you fucking believe this?"  There was a quick flash where it looked like he was getting exasperated, but I could be wrong; the rest was pure admiration.   After easily half the songs, Tony and Ozzy met in front of the drum riser and exchanged laughs.  They were CLEARLY having fun and it wasn't just for the money. 

I've long said that I dig watching old guys who have been doing this for years play.  Cheap Trick, Kiss, Aerosmith... add Sabbath to the list.  They were really good.  Enough so you know it wasn't piped in, but close enough where you know they can play every note of the songs they wrote.

By the way, Rival Sons blew me out of the water.  They are REALLY good.   The singer sang every note like his life depended on it, and the guitar player was cool as shit.  Plus, I could see the guitar players daughter sitting cross-legged on the side of the stage with her teddy bear watching Dad (I know it was his kid because the guy behind me knew the keyboard player).  I'm a dad of a daughter and it was very cute.   

[cramx3]

Did you get the CD?

Also, I never did my own mini review of the concert from the other night.

I got there a bit late and was walking towards the amphitheater when I heard the opening chords to Black Sabbath which was actually really cool to hear echo over the parking lot.  Anyway, got into the venue in time for the second song.  The whole band sounded pretty good.  Tommy was pretty much AWESOME.  Ozzy sounded pretty well too.  Really can't complain about the sound at all which was crystal clear even all the way in the back.  I had a blast overall, but the setlist was pretty short.  I was home before 10pm which is the earliest for any concert I have gone to in who knows how long (maybe ever?). 

[Stadler]

Did you get the CD?

Also, I never did my own mini review of the concert from the other night.

I got there a bit late and was walking towards the amphitheater when I heard the opening chords to Black Sabbath which was actually really cool to hear echo over the parking lot.  Anyway, got into the venue in time for the second song.  The whole band sounded pretty good.  Tommy was pretty much AWESOME.  Ozzy sounded pretty well too.  Really can't complain about the sound at all which was crystal clear even all the way in the back.  I had a blast overall, but the setlist was pretty short.  I was home before 10pm which is the earliest for any concert I have gone to in who knows how long (maybe ever?).

Well, you gave me the heads up on that.   8:40 and they took the stage.   It helped that Sabbath's setup was exceedingly simple.   Drum set, two backlines, and Ozzy.   It was about as no-frills (In a good way) as a rock show gets. 

I did get the CD.  I ran in like a school girl at 6:30 sharp, chugging my beer as I went. 

[Mladen]

Great post, Stadler. I was also very impressed by Rival Sons few months ago.

[cramx3]

Did you get the CD?

Also, I never did my own mini review of the concert from the other night.

I got there a bit late and was walking towards the amphitheater when I heard the opening chords to Black Sabbath which was actually really cool to hear echo over the parking lot.  Anyway, got into the venue in time for the second song.  The whole band sounded pretty good.  Tommy was pretty much AWESOME.  Ozzy sounded pretty well too.  Really can't complain about the sound at all which was crystal clear even all the way in the back.  I had a blast overall, but the setlist was pretty short.  I was home before 10pm which is the earliest for any concert I have gone to in who knows how long (maybe ever?).

Well, you gave me the heads up on that.   8:40 and they took the stage.   It helped that Sabbath's setup was exceedingly simple.   Drum set, two backlines, and Ozzy.   It was about as no-frills (In a good way) as a rock show gets. 

I did get the CD.  I ran in like a school girl at 6:30 sharp, chugging my beer as I went.

Yea, a really basic set up and rock gig overall.  No issues on my end from that, if the band is good (Black Sabbath was great) then I can't say I need any extras with a stage show, although I'm sure some real fire would always be an added bonus.

[KevShmev]

Given their ages, I wouldn't hold it too much against Sabbath if they don't move around too much on stage; the fact that they are out there at all is pretty amazing.

As for Ozzy live, I remember hearing his solo Tribute live album back in the day and finding it weird that he felt the need at the beginning of every song to tell the crowd what song it was.  Does he think the crowd is that stupid that they won't know what it is, or is it is just a cheap way of getting a pop from the crowd?  Probably the latter, but still kinda weird.

[cramx3]

Ozzy was actually pretty mobile for Paranoid during the encore, walked all over the stage.  Otherwise no one really moved from thier spots.  Agreed about the age, I can't say I expected a Bruce Dickinson type of performance.  As long as the band sounded good, which they did, it's hard to complain about anything else.  My only real complaint was the early start time and maybe that is due to old age as well.  Van Halen had the same problem last year, starting at 8:30pm, not the traditional 9pm or later for headliners (at least at this venue).

[El Barto]

Just read the last couple of posts after seeing the show last night, and the lack of any production was one of the things we all noticed. I thought at the time that DT is touring with more gear than Sabbath nowadays. Regardless, good show. Nice setlist. Ozzy was weak, but not bad at all. Fake Bill Ward was very good, so his presence was only offensive in principle. I was pleased to see them sell out the venue. It's very rare for metal bands to accomplish that (only Metallica).

[cramx3]

I was pleased to see them sell out the venue. It's very rare for metal bands to accomplish that (only Metallica).

Yea, they didn't sell out here (like 25,000 venue) but it was the most packed I'd seen the venue the entire summer. Really huge crowd which is always fun.

[Stadler]

Fake Bill Ward was very good, so his presence was only offensive in principle.

Hahaha, this is why I look forward to each of your posts.  Classic (and exactly right).   

[Ben_Jamin]

Wish I was at the show tonight. But I'm happy because I got to see them at least.