Black Sabbath Discussion Thread

[El Barto]

Everyone keeps blaming Sharon, but honestly, I'm pointing the finger at Tony Iommi.  When it comes to Sabbath, Ozzy's involvement is tied to Sharon, but Sabbath as a unit doesn't fart without Tony's giving the A-ok.  Even Geezer has sort of conceded the torch to Iommi, though because of the lyrical contributions, he does get a writing credit.

While Iommi controls Black Sabbath, Sharron controls Ozzy and there's no way that filthy cunt has him participating if she has limited involvement in this. The truth is that Iommi needs Ozzy more than the Osbournes need Black Sabbath and they all know that. If FCSO didn't want Ward inolved, there wouldn't be much Iommi could do about it. Moreover, despite, or perhaps because of, her being a wretched bag of pus, she does make money. From Iommi's perspective it might well be in his best interest to let her call the shots. It happens because he gets Ozzy hogging the spotlight and it slashes and burns its way to a gazillion dollars as she squeezes every last pence from the market.

I did see that Rival Sons got the opening slot because they impressed Sharon and Ozzy. Further lending credence to my opinion that she's calling the shots. Personally, I wonder how much they had to pay for that spot.

[Stadler]

Everyone keeps blaming Sharon, but honestly, I'm pointing the finger at Tony Iommi.  When it comes to Sabbath, Ozzy's involvement is tied to Sharon, but Sabbath as a unit doesn't fart without Tony's giving the A-ok.  Even Geezer has sort of conceded the torch to Iommi, though because of the lyrical contributions, he does get a writing credit.

While Iommi controls Black Sabbath, Sharron controls Ozzy and there's no way that filthy cunt has him participating if she has limited involvement in this. The truth is that Iommi needs Ozzy more than the Osbournes need Black Sabbath and they all know that. If FCSO didn't want Ward inolved, there wouldn't be much Iommi could do about it. Moreover, despite, or perhaps because of, her being a wretched bag of pus, she does make money. From Iommi's perspective it might well be in his best interest to let her call the shots. It happens because he gets Ozzy hogging the spotlight and it slashes and burns its way to a gazillion dollars as she squeezes every last pence from the market.

I did see that Rival Sons got the opening slot because they impressed Sharon and Ozzy. Further lending credence to my opinion that she's calling the shots. Personally, I wonder how much they had to pay for that spot.

I can't argue with any of that, other than to say, if Iommi felt that bad about it, he COULD go off and do his thing.  But I think you're right; cash in for one last BIG payday while the fingers still move and the bodies are still warm, and if the only wreckage is a drummer who might or might not have been able to cut the gig to start with, so be it.    Though Ozzy does claim to still be mates with Bill, though I find that hard to believe.

I saw Rival Sons on Jools Holland's show, and I thought they ROCKED.  I remember  thinking the singer sounded like someone excellent (Paul Rodgers?  I don't remember) and I thought it might be need to see them.  Well, I'm going to Sabbath in August, so perhaps I will...

[El Barto]

I just find it odd that it's Ward that they're concerned about being unable to hack it. Ozzy has a pretty spotty track record. With Ozzfest it was an easy enough thing to get the other big bands to cover the show. With this, however, Ozzy comes up lame and it's refund time. At least with Bill Ward you could have found a drummer to cover for him.

Years ago, my concert buddies were traveling around Cali with plans to catch Ozzfest somewhere North. They rolled into the venue like the Griswolds to find the place deserted, as Ozzy's health had led to a postponement. There were several postponements and several times that Maiden played full sets because there was no Sabbath on that tour. I can only imagine that he's less capable now, ten years later.

[wolfking]

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/lita-ford-details-alleged-abusive-relationship-with-tony-iommi-in-her-memoir/

Wow!  Why bring this up now?  Seems a bit far fetched, Tony seems so super chill.

[BlobVanDam]

Tony doesn't seem like the guy to me, although coke is a hell of a drug. There may be some truth to it, but I expect it's largely exaggerated.

[bl5150]

Tony doesn't seem like the guy to me, although coke is a hell of a drug. There may be some truth to it, but I expect it's largely exaggerated.

I really dunno what the hell to make of Lita Ford these days - the father of her children (Jim from Nitro) is crazy as they come and yet a court decided to award him custody of their children.  Makes you wonder.

[Cyclopssss]

Yeah, as much as I admire her as a musician, she never across to me as all that stable mentally.

[Stadler]

Read over at Eddie Trunk; there is a sort of synopsis and if she is correct, she banged Jon Bon Jovi, Richie Sambora, Aldo Nova, Nikki Sixx, Tony Iommi, Ritchie Blackmore, Dee Dee Ramone, John Entwhistle, Glenn Tipton, Eddie Van Halen... it just strains credibility.   

You don't think that even ONE of these stories would have come out sooner?   Even just one? 

I was never really a fan, and this isn't going to change anything.   Even if it was all true, what's the point other than ruining other people's lives?   Who's going to buy this? 

And then the kicker... she allegedly says "out of respect for my children, I won't talk about Gillette"   But it's okay for her children to know she fucked her way across Los Angeles and now put any credibility she might have had as a player in doubt (c'mon, you don't think the sex had ANYTHING to do with her getting and keeping a record contract?  NOTHING?)

[wolfking]

I don't think Iommi will really give a fuck anyways.

[jjrock88]

I don't think Iommi will really give a fuck anyways.

I think this sums up the entire situation.

[wolfking]

I don't think Iommi will really give a fuck anyways.

I think this sums up the entire situation.

And, I don't think any of his fans would give a fuck anyway, I certainly don't.

[gazinwales]

Great news for fans of the Tony Martin era of the band:
https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/tony-iommi-wants-to-record-new-music-with-ex-black-sabbath-singer-tony-martin/

[jjrock88]

This should be awesome..............hopefully

[wolfking]

Hell yeah!  I wish they were doing a whole new album, but I'll take anything!

[Stadler]

Love the Tony Martin era, and this is good news for me.

But fuck Blabbermouth; they're whores.  The whole premise of the current info is that Iommi is NOT ignoring the Martin years; he very clearly just said his priority is the Ozzy thing, but they WILL be re-released in their entirety.  So why re-print the four year old quote that is now totally and utterly irrelevant???

[TAC]

Why does anyone even use Blabbermouth when Bravewords is much better?

[gazinwales]

Tony Martin only yesterday hinted that he would be working with Iommi in 2017, via FB.

[?]

I saw Sabbath on their farewell tour in Helsinki a month ago. Unfortunately I didn't get The End CD, because there were only overpriced signed copies available at the merch stand, but Ozzy sounded surprisingly good and it was a cool show with a cool line-up, including Opeth, Rival Sons and Amorphis. I wrote a report, which you can read here.

[KevShmev]

I don't post in this thread a lot, mainly because it seems like the discussion is never about the early material, but I just wanted to drop in to say that Sabbra Cadabra is easily a top 5 Sabbath tune (along with Hand of Doom, Fairies Wear Boots, Children of the Sea and either Black Sabbath or War Pigs). 

[Imaginos]

War Pigs is one of the greatest songs ever by any band, it's one of those songs that I never get tired of hearing. The namesake song on the other hand has never done much for me. I get that it was super heavy and revolutionary for it's time, but I've always just found it kind of boring.

[The Curious Orange]

I've got tickets to see them in Birmingham UK in February, coz hell, it's Sabbath, but the tickets were hideously overpriced all things considered (Ozzy being a f**king mess these days, short set punctuated by lengthy drum and bass solos, odd setlist choices).

As for Lita Ford - what Kim Fowley alledgedly put the Runaways through, it's surprising she's as sane as she is.

[Zydar]

Apparently Tony's cancer is in remission

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/black-sabbaths-tony-iommi-reveals-11726966

[wolfking]

Great fucking news.

[Stadler]

War Pigs is one of the greatest songs ever by any band, it's one of those songs that I never get tired of hearing. The namesake song on the other hand has never done much for me. I get that it was super heavy and revolutionary for it's time, but I've always just found it kind of boring.

War Pigs.   That's one of those songs that on paper is SO FUCKING EASY, I could teach my 8 year old, uncoordinated, purely and utterly unmusical son to play, and yet... I don't think I've ever heard anyone play it EXACTLY like Tony does, with the little slides into each chord, the harmonics as the chord rings...   I think they do him an injustice when they limit him to being the "RIFFMEISTER GENERAL", but he's amazing (though for me, there is no Sabbath without Geezer). 

For what it's worth, Sabbath Bloody Sabbath is in my top ten albums by any band ever category.  I love that record from top to flipping bottom. 

[Stadler]

I've got tickets to see them in Birmingham UK in February, coz hell, it's Sabbath, but the tickets were hideously overpriced all things considered (Ozzy being a f**king mess these days, short set punctuated by lengthy drum and bass solos, odd setlist choices).

As for Lita Ford - what Kim Fowley alledgedly put the Runaways through, it's surprising she's as sane as she is.

I respectfully disagree with most of your post - all accounts are that Ozzy is delivering on this tour like few in the past 20 years, the setlist has some interesting nuggets for fans (though I'd personally like to switch out Dirty Women for something from SBS or Sabotage), and Lita Ford isn't within 560 miles of 'sane' (if you believe her, she slept with every single guitar player in LA that released an album between the years of 1986 and 1991 while high on coke and while Tony Iommi batted her about the head) - but I have to say, I'm envious of you seeing Sabbath in their hometown on one of their two final gigs EVER.   That's magic, man. 

[The Curious Orange]

I respectfully disagree with most of your post - all accounts are that Ozzy is delivering on this tour like few in the past 20 years, the setlist has some interesting nuggets for fans (though I'd personally like to switch out Dirty Women for something from SBS or Sabotage), and Lita Ford isn't within 560 miles of 'sane' (if you believe her, she slept with every single guitar player in LA that released an album between the years of 1986 and 1991 while high on coke and while Tony Iommi batted her about the head) - but I have to say, I'm envious of you seeing Sabbath in their hometown on one of their two final gigs EVER.   That's magic, man.

I know Ozzy was a mess on some of the 13 tour dates, so I am so hoping he's on form this time round - I'm pretty sure the atmosphere will more than make up for any shortcomings. But from what I've seen, he does still seem to think the lyrics to every song are "Let me see your fookin hands in the air!" - which gets tiring after a while. For me, SBS and Sabotage are the best 2 albums, so I'm a little disappointed they're being overlooked, and yes, Dirty Women is one of the worst songs in rock history.
But yes, I'm really looking forward to it! Even if they're awful, it's still BLACK FECKING SABBATH!

I can't really comment on Lita Ford's sanity. She was very young when she came into the business, and by all accounts was used and abused by the industry from the start. It's not uncommon for victims of abuse at a young age to have a warped view of adult relationships, so if she claims she grew up to be a slut, I'm inclined to believe her, especially given some of the stories that have emerged about Fowley since his death. Mental Health is a serious issue, and the woman deserves a little empathy is all I'm saying.

[cramx3]

They just did a promotion at the local venue, one ticket for $20 including taxes and fees.  So I picked up two, going to ask my father to come see them in two weeks.  My father saw them as a kid at MSG and had mentioned the idea of wanting to go.  I've really never listened to them besides the hit songs although I've seen them once before in 2005 at Ozzfest with Iron Maiden.

[Stadler]

I'm going to drive up to Boston to see them on the 25th (they are playing CT on the 27th, but I'm going to be away).   

I saw Ozzy solo with Joe Holmes, and it was average at best (@Orange, you're right about the "get your fookin' hands in the air", though then I think it was "let's go fookin' cray-zeeeeee!") and I saw Sabbath with Tony Martin twice.  Once with Geezer and it was unbelievable, and once with Neil Murray and it was okay.  I don't think most people realize how much Geezer has to do with the sound of Sabbath. 

[Art]

I don't think most people realize how much Geezer has to do with the sound of Sabbath.

Seeing them live, you have to notice it. His playing is amazing. Heavy, massive and very much "in your face". I think he´s as much responsible for their sound as Iommi.

[MirrorMask]

Apparently Tony's cancer is in remission

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/black-sabbaths-tony-iommi-reveals-11726966

The Iron Man 

[El Barto]

I'm a huge fan of the Tony Martin era. At the same time, he was never very good live and at this point his voice is completely shot. Last few videos I've seen he had Claude Schnell singing the high parts off stage while he sang the harmonies. The other problem is that little of the Martin stuff featured Geezer. Not sure he'd want to be focusing on material that didn't involve him.

Glad to hear Tony's cancer is in remission, but I thought that it had been for a couple of years. This doesn't strike me as new news.

My problem with Ozzy's antics is that the "lemme see your fucking hands"* is always happening when somebody else is doing something kick ass. Unlike Stadler, I'd watch them play 2 hours of Dirty Women. Last time I saw it live the whole time Tony is whipping ass Ozzy is running around, screaming and throwing buckets of water at people.** He's always done that. He behaves as if Sabbath is his backing band, which I find offensive.

Even Geezer's subtle stuff is great. His quiet work during Southern Cross is thrilling to watch live.

In the videos I've seen of this tour (admittedly quite some time ago) Ozzy sounded pretty awful. However, I always assume that to be the case and then if he's not then I'm pleasantly surprised. That makes for a double bonus, in that I'm also pleasantly surprised if he's even able to attend and the show's not cancelled.

Sharron Osbourne is still one of the most vile and repulsive things on the planet. I'm going to see them at some point, don't know when because the tickets were purchased a year ago, and I still feel rotten that awful creature will make a buck or two off of it. As far as I'm concerned she still owes me ~$800.


*Ozzy is English, not Swedish. I don't recall his "fucking" sounding any different than us yank's.

**As anybody that's heard the story might recall, there was a lot more interesting stuff going on that Ozzy's antics. Hell, Iommi's southpaw'd SG mayhem was probably second or third on the list.

[cramx3]

*Ozzy is English, not Swedish. I don't recall his "fucking" sounding any different than us yank's.

To be fair, everything Ozzy says does not sound like anything from us yanks or any other human being 

[Stadler]

I'm a huge fan of the Tony Martin era. At the same time, he was never very good live and at this point his voice is completely shot. Last few videos I've seen he had Claude Schnell singing the high parts off stage while he sang the harmonies. The other problem is that little of the Martin stuff featured Geezer. Not sure he'd want to be focusing on material that didn't involve him.

Glad to hear Tony's cancer is in remission, but I thought that it had been for a couple of years. This doesn't strike me as new news.

My problem with Ozzy's antics is that the "lemme see your fucking hands"* is always happening when somebody else is doing something kick ass. Unlike Stadler, I'd watch them play 2 hours of Dirty Women. Last time I saw it live the whole time Tony is whipping ass Ozzy is running around, screaming and throwing buckets of water at people.** He's always done that. He behaves as if Sabbath is his backing band, which I find offensive.

Even Geezer's subtle stuff is great. His quiet work during Southern Cross is thrilling to watch live.

In the videos I've seen of this tour (admittedly quite some time ago) Ozzy sounded pretty awful. However, I always assume that to be the case and then if he's not then I'm pleasantly surprised. That makes for a double bonus, in that I'm also pleasantly surprised if he's even able to attend and the show's not cancelled.

Sharron Osbourne is still one of the most vile and repulsive things on the planet. I'm going to see them at some point, don't know when because the tickets were purchased a year ago, and I still feel rotten that awful creature will make a buck or two off of it. As far as I'm concerned she still owes me ~$800.


*Ozzy is English, not Swedish. I don't recall his "fucking" sounding any different than us yank's.

**As anybody that's heard the story might recall, there was a lot more interesting stuff going on that Ozzy's antics. Hell, Iommi's southpaw'd SG mayhem was probably second or third on the list.

I saw the Cross Purposes tour (the one WITH Geezer) and the Forbidden tour, exactly (to the day) one year apart in the same venue with the same opening act (Motorhead).    CP RULED, Forbidden, eh (even though Cozy was on that tour).   Both shows Martin struggled (sounded sick, and was eating cough drops like they were, well, cough drops).  Psychophobia was worth the price of admission alone. 

The "*" is of course correct.  He has that gravelly growl when he screams, but you're right, he doesn't sound like Ringo Starr or anything.

The "**" demands a retelling, because it sounds like there is a story there.   

I actually LIKE the song Dirty Women, but it's sort of the "song they pull out when they don't want to stick to the first four albums".   It's been on every tour since the tour that gave us "Reunion".    It's not because I dislike the song (I actually LOVE Technical Ecstacy as an album) but I'd like to hear Gypsy or Spiral Architect (also played on the Reunion tour), Shock Wave or Over To You, or Megalomania or... you get the drift.

[KevShmev]

For what it's worth, Sabbath Bloody Sabbath is in my top ten albums by any band ever category.  I love that record from top to flipping bottom.

I can only imagine if the 'net had been around when it came out. Sabbath fans would have bitched non-stop..."OMG, what is with all of those keyboards??" "WTF is Who Are You??"

But yeah, great album, and probably my 3rd favorite of theirs (after the first two).  I like it just a bit more than Heaven and Hell & Sabotage (which would be 4th and 5th).

Oh, and Master of Reality is highly overrated.  There it is.

[TAC]

Well, Sweet Leaf sure is. But Into The Void is so freaking great.


My favorite Ozzy era album is Sabotage.