DreamSonic 2023

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Why would we buy tickets to watch them perform nearly exactly the same show/set a mere few months later?

[Setlist Scotty]

Why would we buy tickets to watch them perform nearly exactly the same show/set a mere few months later?

Let’s assume for a moment that my setlist guess is correct. If it is, how much of a difference would there be between this setlist and the one they played last year?

Last year’s setlist:
The Alien
6:00
Awaken the Master
Endless Sacrifice
Bridges in the Sky
Invisible Monster
About to Crash
The Ministry of Lost Souls
A View from the Top of the World
~~~encore~~~
The Count of Tuscany

My hypothetical setlist:
The Alien
Caught in a Web
Sleeping Giant
Peruvian Skies (or As I Am or another song already played by MM)
Answering the Call
Solitary Shell
About to Crash (Reprise)
Losing Time/Grand Finale
A View from the Top of the World
~~~encore~~~
Pull Me Under

Between these 2 setlists, only The Alien and the title track appear in both. In other words, the vast majority of the setlist is different.  So assuming that it’s correct, I wouldn’t say it’s “nearly exactly the same show/set” – would you?

[Trav86]

Yeah, this is similar to what they did on the ADTOE tour. They came back to North America and just added in the songs they had been playing in Europe. But there were still crossovers like On the Backs of Angels and Breaking All Illusions.

[Awaken]

Regarding the setlist for these DreamSonic shows, I'd be willing to wager that it will probably be almost just a shortened version of the setlist they've done this year, dropping a couple songs that were already played during their first run through the US, and maybe adding one or two "new" (to this tour) tracks.

So I'd imagine it will be something like:
The Alien
Caught in a Web
Sleeping Giant
Peruvian Skies (or As I Am or another song already played by MM)
Answering the Call
Solitary Shell
About to Crash (Reprise)
Losing Time/Grand Finale
A View from the Top of the World
~~~encore~~~
Pull Me Under

With encore break and speaking between one or two tracks, this set comes out to be just about 90 minutes. So while it might be nice to imagine them replacing every track not from the new one, that isn't realistic. The guys need time to prepare and rehearse new material, and there's not a lot of time between the last leg and this next one (which realistically is just a rebranded second leg of the View From the Top of the World tour, just like Progressive Nation was for the Chaos in Motion and Black Clouds tours in 2008 and 2009).

I'd be happy w this setlist, sans the encore.  I bought the ticket w hopes they'd keep playing Sleeping Giant and Answering the Call - my favorites from the last album.  Swap PMU with At Wit's End and it would be a near perfect set.  That change alone got me to see the Scenes from a Memory Anniversary show a second time in Albany vs. leaving my hometown (CT) show early because they were closing w PMU.

[Skeever]

Having seen the last tour, I don't think I need to see the title track again. That's a huge chunk of change - maybe like 20% of the show, just by itself. If they were to swap it out with one of their classic epics, I think I'm a lot more interested.

[TAC]

Having seen the last tour, I don't think I need to see the title track again. That's a huge chunk of change - maybe like 20% of the show, just by itself. If they were to swap it out with one of their classic epics, I think I'm a lot more interested.

I agree, but at least swap out TCOT.

[cramx3]

Why would we buy tickets to watch them perform nearly exactly the same show/set a mere few months later?

Let’s assume for a moment that my setlist guess is correct. If it is, how much of a difference would there be between this setlist and the one they played last year?

...

Between these 2 setlists, only The Alien and the title track appear in both. In other words, the vast majority of the setlist is different.  So assuming that it’s correct, I wouldn’t say it’s “nearly exactly the same show/set” – would you?

Not only is there a significant difference in the songs besides the two main theme of the tour songs, the last DT show in the US was over 14 months ago.  That's not "mere" that's over a year. That comment makes absolutely no sense.

Having seen the last tour, I don't think I need to see the title track again. That's a huge chunk of change - maybe like 20% of the show, just by itself. If they were to swap it out with one of their classic epics, I think I'm a lot more interested.

I agree, but at least swap out TCOT.

TCOT is so good live though.  I'd be OK if it was swapped, but only if it meant being replaced by something more interesting than one of their "classics".  If I had to choose between the title track or TCOT to get cut, it would be the title track though.  I like TCOT more, it's shorter so you can get a couple more songs out of A View, and from my experience, the crowd reacts very well to TCOT.

[MrMike]

If they're just gonna shorten what they've already been doing, then I'm guessing they'll drop AVFTTOTW.  That would get the set time close to what people are thinking it will be and still leave in 3 from the latest album.  I'd also expect PMU to be dropped as that was likely more a nugget for the overseas audiences who don't get to see them as often.  I think they'll keep TCOT as encore because it's a fan favorite and they really do seem to enjoy playing it.
 
I could also see them switching the order around just to make it feel a bit different.  Maybe open with 6:00 and put The Alien right before the encore.

[zappafrank2112]

They need to basically redo the set entirely.  Too many of the not-AVFTTOTW songs take up too much time and are too plodding overall (Bridges and Ministry in particular).

I'd be OK losing the two epics since I saw them last year (even though I love TCoT) b/c again, that's a huge chunk of time.

I imagine they'll switch out most of the new songs to get to some of the other album tracks.  I could see them keeping The Alien, though.

But pretty much the entire rest of the set can be jettisoned in favor or other stuff... LIKE THE KILLING HAND (even if James has to change it in parts).

Part of me wouldn't be surprised if they throw in Octavarium.  I know what I said about epics, but the anniversary is still 2 years away, and now is the perfect time to throw it in when they have free space to do it (i.e., not technically touring for the most recent album).

ETA: One thing I just thought of, though: not sure how they'd handle the scream at the end of "Intervals" (or The Killing Hand, for that matter, since I suggested it above)...

[zappafrank2112]

(double post, removed)

[Ben_Jamin]

I definitely agree with you about adding Octavrium.

[Setlist Scotty]

Part of me wouldn't be surprised if they throw in Octavarium.  I know what I said about epics, but the anniversary is still 2 years away, and now is the perfect time to throw it in when they have free space to do it (i.e., not technically touring for the most recent album).

Mark my words - ain't gonna happen now. It doesn't make sense, since there's only the North American leg (unless they do further touring beyond that, but highly unlikely, IMO) and it will take time to plan and rehearse. That's something that they'll want to feature for an entire world tour. However, I wouldn't be surprised in the least bit if they do bring it back for the next album-tour cycle just like they did with TCoT on this one.

[TAC]

Part of me wouldn't be surprised if they throw in Octavarium.  I know what I said about epics, but the anniversary is still 2 years away, and now is the perfect time to throw it in when they have free space to do it (i.e., not technically touring for the most recent album).

Mark my words - ain't gonna happen now. It doesn't make sense, since there's only the North American leg (unless they do further touring beyond that, but highly unlikely, IMO) and it will take time to plan and rehearse. That's something that they'll want to feature for an entire world tour. However, I wouldn't be surprised in the least bit if they do bring it back for the next album-tour cycle just like they did with TCoT on this one.

I agree with that Scotty.

[cramx3]

Yeah, it's not happening.

In other news, I've officially updated my calendar and am planning on doing both the NYC and CT shows.  Now that I'm paying some attention to CT.... WOW that's selling really poorly.

[TAC]

Now that I'm paying some attention to CT.... WOW that's selling really poorly.

Wow! Have they even sold 1000 tickets?



I just checked the Boston show and no way they've probably sold about 1200-1500.

[pg1067]

They need to basically redo the set entirely.  Too many of the not-AVFTTOTW songs take up too much time and are too plodding overall (Bridges and Ministry in particular).

I'd be OK losing the two epics since I saw them last year (even though I love TCoT) b/c again, that's a huge chunk of time.

I imagine they'll switch out most of the new songs to get to some of the other album tracks.  I could see them keeping The Alien, though.

But pretty much the entire rest of the set can be jettisoned in favor or other stuff... LIKE THE KILLING HAND (even if James has to change it in parts).

Part of me wouldn't be surprised if they throw in Octavarium.  I know what I said about epics, but the anniversary is still 2 years away, and now is the perfect time to throw it in when they have free space to do it (i.e., not technically touring for the most recent album).

ETA: One thing I just thought of, though: not sure how they'd handle the scream at the end of "Intervals" (or The Killing Hand, for that matter, since I suggested it above)...

As several of us mentioned yesterday, they've already re-tooled the setlist a fair amount between 2022 and 2023:

- The Alien
- 6:00
- Awaken the Master Sleeping Giant
- Endless Sacrifice
- Bridges in the Sky
- Caught in a Web
- Invisible Monster Answering the Call
- Solitary Shell
- About to Crash About to Crash (Reprise)
- The Ministry of Lost Souls Losing Time/Grand Finale
- Pull Me Under
- A View from the Top of the World
- The Count of Tuscany

And, as Scotty pointed out, they've only got 35 days between the last show in Indonesia and the start of DreamSonic.  They might swap out a couple songs, but I'd be shocked if they added something as extensive and complex as Octavarium.  I also find the notion of Bridges being "plodding" fairly amusing.

[cramx3]

Now that I'm paying some attention to CT.... WOW that's selling really poorly.

Wow! Have they even sold 1000 tickets?



I just checked the Boston show and no way they've probably sold about 1200-1500.

  the difference is that CT actually is selling the back sections compared to NYC which is not.  I haven't looked at Boston.

[gzarruk]

My hypothetical setlist:
The Alien
Caught in a Web
Sleeping Giant
Peruvian Skies (or As I Am or another song already played by MM)
Answering the Call
Solitary Shell
About to Crash (Reprise)
Losing Time/Grand Finale
A View from the Top of the World
~~~encore~~~
Pull Me Under

Between these 2 setlists, only The Alien and the title track appear in both. In other words, the vast majority of the setlist is different.  So assuming that it’s correct, I wouldn’t say it’s “nearly exactly the same show/set” – would you?

I'd Scotty's setlist is the most realistic guess, even though I'd shelve PMU and add something more interesting instead. Maybe they go the "all the songs that Europe got, but the US didn't + TA and the epic" route, but ideally they add something new like Transcending Time.

[Stadler]

Yeah, it's not happening.

In other news, I've officially updated my calendar and am planning on doing both the NYC and CT shows.  Now that I'm paying some attention to CT.... WOW that's selling really poorly.

Awesome!!!!  Hopefully we can catch up for a beer before the show.  I'm psyched because it's a new venue (at least for me). 

[cramx3]

Yeah, it's not happening.

In other news, I've officially updated my calendar and am planning on doing both the NYC and CT shows.  Now that I'm paying some attention to CT.... WOW that's selling really poorly.

Awesome!!!!  Hopefully we can catch up for a beer before the show.  I'm psyched because it's a new venue (at least for me).

Yeah I'm down.  I'm taking that Friday off from work.

[Chino]

I was thinking of taking the afternoon on that day. Id be down for some pre-show shenanigans.

It's crossed my mind that they might move/cancel. It's not selling well at all, and it's bigger than the place they usually play.

[KevShmev]

Part of me wouldn't be surprised if they throw in Octavarium.  I know what I said about epics, but the anniversary is still 2 years away, and now is the perfect time to throw it in when they have free space to do it (i.e., not technically touring for the most recent album).

It's time like this I wish DT crowds were louder.  Given James' recent struggles, it is hard to imagine them doing Octavarium and him having to sing the "Trapped inside this octavarium!" line four times at the end every night.  That should be a "let the crowd scream the lines" moment live, but DT crowds have just never been into doing that kind of stuff, by and large.  I have said it before, but I thought the harmonies in the chorus of Take the Time should have been something the crowd sang loudly from the start, but it never happened. 

[Ben_Jamin]

Part of me wouldn't be surprised if they throw in Octavarium.  I know what I said about epics, but the anniversary is still 2 years away, and now is the perfect time to throw it in when they have free space to do it (i.e., not technically touring for the most recent album).

It's time like this I wish DT crowds were louder.  Given James' recent struggles, it is hard to imagine them doing Octavarium and him having to sing the "Trapped inside this octavarium!" line four times at the end every night.  That should be a "let the crowd scream the lines" moment live, but DT crowds have just never been into doing that kind of stuff, by and large.  I have said it before, but I thought the harmonies in the chorus of Take the Time should have been something the crowd sang loudly from the start, but it never happened.

I so wish DT fans were more vocal. It amazes me how this band has so many amazing vocal melodies, yet there's hardly anyone that responds to the songs.

That's my problem with TTT live. If we want a live version of this song, the audience should at least respond, as this song requires it honestly.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Why would we buy tickets to watch them perform nearly exactly the same show/set a mere few months later?

Let’s assume for a moment that my setlist guess is correct. If it is, how much of a difference would there be between this setlist and the one they played last year?

Last year’s setlist:
The Alien
6:00
Awaken the Master
Endless Sacrifice
Bridges in the Sky
Invisible Monster
About to Crash
The Ministry of Lost Souls
A View from the Top of the World
~~~encore~~~
The Count of Tuscany

My hypothetical setlist:
The Alien
Caught in a Web
Sleeping Giant
Peruvian Skies (or As I Am or another song already played by MM)
Answering the Call
Solitary Shell
About to Crash (Reprise)
Losing Time/Grand Finale
A View from the Top of the World
~~~encore~~~
Pull Me Under

Between these 2 setlists, only The Alien and the title track appear in both. In other words, the vast majority of the setlist is different.  So assuming that it’s correct, I wouldn’t say it’s “nearly exactly the same show/set” – would you?

I think your hypo setlist is probably pretty close to what is going to happen. It feels like we just heard these songs because a lot of us are checking out footage online.

[Buddyhunter1]

Now that I'm paying some attention to CT.... WOW that's selling really poorly.

Wow! Have they even sold 1000 tickets?



I just checked the Boston show and no way they've probably sold about 1200-1500.

Yeah, and that's a venue they've played at plenty of times before, too. What happened? Are all the normie Dream Theater fans allergic to Devin Townsend? Did they all die of old age?

[Trav86]

The “Dallas” show looks like it may be half full right now. They have the outside balcony sections blacked out as well. The front couple of middle sections are the only ones close to being full. That sucks.

[zappafrank2112]

I have a feeling a lot of these shows are not going to sell well.  I just hope my show (the Pittsburgh-area-but-only-just-but-actually-not-even-remotely-close) doesn't get canceled.  And it's hard to tell how it's really doing since so many of the seats are reassignments that probably didn't get canceled in time by people who now can't go because of the whole cluster.

[cramx3]

Now that I'm paying some attention to CT.... WOW that's selling really poorly.

Wow! Have they even sold 1000 tickets?



I just checked the Boston show and no way they've probably sold about 1200-1500.

Yeah, and that's a venue they've played at plenty of times before, too. What happened? Are all the normie Dream Theater fans allergic to Devin Townsend? Did they all die of old age?

My guess here...

DT ticket sales have been going down since TA tour generally.  Granted they usually shoot back up when they are celebrating an older album like the I&W and SFAM tours and the first US legs often do well, but typically when DT comes back to the US for the 2nd leg, they struggle to sell tickets.  This is not only a second US leg, but it's also not a tour celebrating anything.  From reading people's thoughts here, it seems a lot people don't want to see the same show again, which I understand.  Even if the US gets the Euro set which is mostly different, it seems people don't realize that.  Also, you may think that adding Devin Townsend and Animals as Leaders would bring more people out, but I've read of comments from Devin fans that the tickets are too expensive to see him as an opening act.  (I don't follow Animals as Leaders so I can't comment on their fan base).  And generally, yeah, the cost is bonkers for this show. 

I've mentioned this before, but it seems the promoters said DT draws 2k, Devin draws 1k, and AAL draw 1k so we will put this show in 4k venues but the reality is DT fans have dropped off for the second run, Devin fans don't want to pay the high prices, there's a lot of overlap between the fan bases, and then there's some who simply won't go because there are opening acts they don't care for.  To me, it's almost coming out to probably 1.5-2k turn outs at this point making those 4k venues fairly empty.

[Stadler]

I think Cram has it 100% correct.   I know for me, I'm going to this show for the following reasons, in order:

- Meet up with some of my friends from the forum;
- See Devin Townsend for the first time live;
- See a show in a new venue in Bridgeport that got a lot of local press

DT isn't even really on the list.  Of course I want to see them, and I'll enjoy it, but there's nothing - NOTHING - that is exclusive to DT that is drawing me to this show.   

[Adami]

Yea, just out of curiosity, I looked at tickets for NY and the only ones at a price I would even consider paying were far to the side and back.

I think beyond all what people have said, which I think is all true, the sheer amount of people willing to pay high prices to sit quietly and watch musicians play things technically accurately and little else is not as big as they would like it to be.

[cramx3]

I think Cram has it 100% correct.   I know for me, I'm going to this show for the following reasons, in order:

- Meet up with some of my friends from the forum;
- See Devin Townsend for the first time live;
- See a show in a new venue in Bridgeport that got a lot of local press

DT isn't even really on the list.  Of course I want to see them, and I'll enjoy it, but there's nothing - NOTHING - that is exclusive to DT that is drawing me to this show.   

Personally, DT is still pretty high on my list.  I still have them as my 2nd favorite band and still really enjoy going to their shows even if I have my gripes.  But I'd also probably rank seeing Devin higher than DT since Devin hasn't toured the US in 3 years and he's always a fun experience. Meeting up with DTF folks is also pretty fun, it's a big reason why I'd take a day off and go to the CT show. I had a lot of fun last year.

the sheer amount of people willing to pay high prices to sit quietly and watch musicians play things technically accurately and little else is not as big as they would like it to be.

Good point too.  DT has become a front row or last row band because I feel like those are the only two places at a DT show where I can enjoy the show standing. 

[Metro]

For me, Devin Townsend is the ONLY draw for me for this tour.
I have no interest in seeing Dream Theater live anymore, regardless of whatever possible setlist they're playing.
I've seen AAL live, and while the music is cool, it's incredibly dull to watch live.
The only shows close to me are Johnstown and Philadelphia, both ~5 hours away. All this considered, it's just not worth it for me.

[zappafrank2112]

How did the Progressive Nation shows do?

I went to the 1st one that had 3 and Opeth on it, in Cleveland, and I recall it being pretty well attended.

[cramx3]

How did the Progressive Nation shows do?

I went to the 1st one that had 3 and Opeth on it, in Cleveland, and I recall it being pretty well attended.

In NYC, they did 2 nights at Terminal 5 which has ~3k capacity.  I don't recall it being sold out either night but decently attended (I could be wrong, but I don't recall being cramped for those shows).  I was literally just thinking that's probably where they should have put the show instead of the MSG theater but Terminal 5 is all GA and DT has really stayed away from playing such venues.  It honestly would have been awesome if they played there and then charged a flat GA price for entry. 

[Architeuthis]

I've seen AAL live, and while the music is cool, it's incredibly dull to watch live.

I hope they aren't ridiculously loud like Arch Echo was before DT.   I find it strange that AAL uses a second eight string instead of a bass guitar. That rubs me the wrong way for some reason.  Maybe I'll see the method to that madness when I see them live.