Official Dream Theater studio albums countdown thread! (number 1 revealed!)

[jammindude]

I agree with what most have said about BCSL.  Personally I thought it was a slight step up from the dreadful SC. SC was bad, but BCSL was just kind of…there. Two fairly decent epic tracks that sandwich 4 uninspired “going through the motions” pieces.

I emphatically agree with the thought that Mike was right…something HAD to change. The band really needed a shake up at this point. They had peaked with 8V and then rapidly fallen off the table. I just didn’t think that shake up would involve Mike leaving.

[jammindude]

I have neglected thus far to include my ranking.

WDADU - 12
SC - 15
TA - 11
BCSL - 14

[jammindude]

One more thing, even though WDADU finished last, have the rest ALL had lower averages?

[KevShmev]

One more thing, even though WDADU finished last, have the rest ALL had lower averages?

[SeRoX]

Worst MP era album. I remember the time that AROP came out as a single and I was unhappy. The rest of album doesn't do any good either for me. TCOT and ANTR are highlights but their lyrics take the magic away.

I rank it last. It is a very uninspired and forced album for me.

[nick_z]

Black Clouds & Silver Linings - I ranked it at #15

It's safe to say that the time BC&SL came out wasn't the high point of my DT fandom. In truth, there was quite a bit going on in my life then, so music in general was taking the back seat. But, specifically with DT, SC had fizzled out relatively quickly and BC&SL didn't do much better.

It is a testament to my appreciation of the band that even the album I rank last I can happily put on and enjoy...but I do agree with the sentiment expressed by others here that the band sounds kinda tired and in need for a reboot. Of course, it's also true that the continued presence of many of the tracks in the setlists indicates the band stands by the album, so who am I to judge 

Some amazing bits in the album...the "beautiful agony" section in Nightmare, the Sprit of the Radio-esque flurry when The Best of Times gets going after the quiet intro and, most of all, the intro to The Count of Tuscany (of of my top DT moments, really).

...but, as for the songs themselves, there's plenty of less-than-inspired moments...A Nightmare to Remember starts great but is way too long for me, and the instrumental section in particular is not interesting enough. The Shattered Fortress might make sense as the conclusion of the suite, but doesn't do much for me as a stand-alone piece. Rite of Passage is fine - the chorus might not be groundbreaking but it has nice harmonies and melody - but not much more than that, and the same can be said of Wither.

The Best of Times is very good but, despite the wonderful solo, doesn't quite live up to the promise of its beginning. Finally, The Count of Tuscany. It's no doubt my favorite track on the album. Like I said before, it has some amazing moments, musically. It is also frustrating. The overly-descriptive lyrics have been discussed to death. What bothers me is not that they are that bad - it's a story, after all. It's just that they are such a mood killer, in relation to the music. The ending of the song is musically so, you know, emotional...I can't take the "Now wait a minute, man" seriously. It verges on parody, and that's not what I'm looking for in DT 

Anyway - still a great song. Lyrics aside, it doesn't quite reach the pantheon of DT's greatest tunes, but a notch above the rest of the album, for sure.

[Mladen]

This was the first Dream Theater album I anticipated after becoming a fan a year before. I loved it at the time and saw them at this tour (my only time seeing them with Mike Portnoy), but the album dropped slightly on my list over the years. It's still pretty good, though.

15.
14.
13. When Dream and Day Unite
12.
11.
10.
9.
8. Black clouds & silver linings
7. Systematic Chaos
6.
5. The Astonishing
4.
3.
2.
1.

[Ben_Jamin]

Because I think Hymn is the perfect ending. Our New World seems so detached from the mood of that final act. I understand why people like it and its resolution, but to me, ending it at Hymn gives it a more ethereal feeling. Plus....I think Our New World is one of the weaker tracks on the album, and the whole point of making an Abridged version is to cut out the fluff.

Strongly agreed Kev!

Yeah, Our New World is a highlight for me too 

The one thing I can't quite comprehend about the album is the inclusion of Astonishing to close things off. ONW and then "Power Down" do just that, and then you have this pretty long, slightly over-baked piece...I guess its purpose is some sort of end credits, where a bunch of themes are reprised?

It's the final moment of the Opera/Play where the entire cast comes out to sing their final resolutions of the characters. Then it ends with the epic final resolution of the story being sung by the narrator, while the entire cast and choir sings along. "And we'll live once more, eternally on harmony, our lives will be astonishing again."

Although on a new mashup I did with making one big long epic, is I put Power Down after The Astonishing. Honestly it works way better at the end for me. Even though Power Down is when Nefaryus comes to his decision and calls of the NOMACS before the sun begins to shine on Heaven's Cove, it works as the last thing heard.

[Shalev Amir]

#14. The Count of Tuscany is great, and ANTR is pretty decent, but the entire middle of the album is very lacking in my opinion.

[DreamerTV]

10   The Astonishing
11   
12   When Dream and Day Unite
13   
14   Systematic Chaos
15   Black Clouds & Silver Linings

Apart from the first half of ANTR and parts of TCOT, I've never felt a real connection with this album.
At the time a I had the feeling this was a messed compromise between some elements (or element) of the band who wanted to follow the path started with SC - something that had its logic given the amount of exposure that the previous album had been given and the attention it drew (SC tour went extremely well) - and some others who wanted to go for a more traditional approach.
The result was a pointless, tired and confused album and although it was not expected, a change was very much needed.

[pg1067]

Catching up with this thread.

My rankings:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9. When Dream and Day Reunite
10. Black Clouds & Silver Linings
11.
12.
13.
14. Systematic Chaos
15. The Astonishing

In order of reveal:

Systematic Chaos:  I can still recall listening to the intro to ITPOE for the first time.  Started with a 5/8, 5/8, 7/8, 7/8 riff.  Very cool!  But then it just kept going on and on and on...and I thought to myself, "I really hope they ratchet this up to a complete wankfest," and then that's exactly what they did, with what I typically call the "Flight of the Bumblebee" section.  Just too much.  I probably had already heard Forsaken at that point.  Not bad, but kinda lackluster.  Things picked up a bith with Constant Motion.  EASILY the best song on this album.  Unfortunately, the album went rapidly downhill from there.  I now like TDEN ok, but that's mostly based on live performances.  Repentance is the worst song Dream Theater ever put on an album.  Prophets of War is bleh.  I like TMOLS better than I used to, but again, that's based on live performances.  ITPOE is very "meh."  Easily the worst of DT's "epics."  The only thing that saves it from the #15 spot is....

The Astonishing:  I mean...what is there to say.  I think the concept is cool, and I applaud them for giving it a try, but the execution was just not there.  29 songs, most of which are painfully the same.  Mid-tempo ballady songs with no life.  A massively derivative concept.  A Life Left Behind is the only song I'd ever voluntarily listen to again.  It's my #15 by a really wide margin.

Black Clouds & Silver Linings:  In retrospect, it's a tired sounding album by a band that was obviously tired.  It opens with a 16 minute song that has its moments and probably would be much better if cut by about 40%.  AROP is meh.  I'll skip Wither for the moment.  TSF is ok.  It's a nice summary of the prior 12SS songs.  The problem is that two of those songs are in my bottom 10, and none of them would likely rank in my top 30.  TBOT is right down there with Redemption in my bottom 5.  TCOT is excellent.  A few things I'd change, but an all around great song.  Back to Wither...on occasion, I rank it above TCOT as my favorite song on the album.  It's SO good - both musically and lyrically.  The guitar player in my old band wrote a song with an identical theme, so I love the theme.  TCOT and Wither elevate the album to my #10 spot, but everything else prevents it from being any higher.

[Lethean]

I ranked it at #10.  I like that album a lot, even though I dislike MP's vocals on it. The Count of Tuscany is all kinds of awesome.  I would prefer better lyrics, but the song is so good that I really don't care so much.  And on the tour that song was just stunning.  Aside from The Count, I enjoy the rest of the album.  I know The Shattered Fortress always got a lot of criticism but I quite like it a lot.  The rest is fine - not my favorite DT stuff, but enjoyable.

[The Realm]

Black Clouds was number 9 for me. I echo what many others have said about this album. I can't remember the last time I listened to the whole album back to back and doubt I ever will again. There is so much about this album that is 'DT by the numbers' but also some moments I really enjoy which is why it got to number 9.

[TAC]

12. Black Clouds & Silver Linings

Number 1 finishes: 2
Last place finishes: 7
Average finish: 10.7

I had Black Clouds & Silver Linings at #10. TCOT and TBOT are two of my all time favorite DT tracks, so that alone gives this a huge boost. I like the rest of it well enough.

Honestly, I've listened to the covers album from black clouds way more. I really enjoy that.

The Covers CD is mostly fantastic. I mean, the KC track is useless, and the Maiden track needed its vocals redone during the BC&SL sessions, but the Zebra, Queen, and Rainbow tracks are incredible, and James kills on it. Too bad they didn't let him sing like that on the SC-BC&SL-ADTOE run.

[geeeemo]

I had The Astonishing at 5. It used to be lower. I listened to all the albums again and based my list on my enjoyment of the listen. Not, "did the album have my number 1song, so it got more merit for that." Just how was I feeling during the listen. I happen to really enjoy listening to TA and moreso each time. I do agree though  that the last couple of songs feel extraneous.

BCSL moved up to number two! I was smiling, head banging or wanting to weep during all of it. Thats what I want from my music. When I finished, I wanted to listen again. Whither is the lowest point, but not low.

[Zydar]

The Astonishing: #15, dead last. I never could get into this one. So many ballads and/or midtempo songs. An uninteresting story line, too. I admire them for tackling such a big project though, and James for doing so many characters himself.

Black Clouds: #14. I'm surprised that I ranked this one a step beneath WDADU. It was my first new DT album after becoming a fan in 2007. I quite liked it at the release, but it quickly dropped down the rankings.

[Animal]

I wonder of it is the same for others who are not native English speakers but CoT lyrics, clumsy as they are, never really bothered me - I can just "turn it off" and ignore it completely. I can't do this with lyrics in my native language...

Speaking of the album: For quite long time, I considered BCSL in the same lackluster ballpark as SC. But it does get elevated by CoT which has become one of my all-time favorite DT songs (though it is still a step bellow likes of Voices, Scarred, ACoS...).

[KevShmev]

11. Dream Theater

Number 1 finishes: 0
Last place finishes: 3
Average finish: 10.4

I had this at 15.  It feels it deserved better from me, as I think the songwriting on it is mostly very good, but I literally never listen to this anymore, and I definitely docked it big time for the sound.  Whatever person decided to make Mike Mangini's drums sound like that should have been banned from ever making such decisions again.

My top 5 songs from the album:
1. Surrender to Reason
2. The Bigger Picture
3. Illumination Theory
4. The Looking Glass
5. Enigma Machine

[Deadeye21]

This is one of those albums I have to be in a certain mood for. But putting it right between Dramatic Turn of Events and Distance Over Time this time kinda killed it for me. This is probably the last album I loved the whole way through, even though it contains one of my least favourite songs in the whole catalogue with The Looking Glass. Illumination Theory on it’s own is a strange maze of on again off again for me, so the rest of the album is pretty torn. Funnily, the three songs from this one that they didn’t do on the original album tour are amongst the best of the album and I’m very glad I caught The Bigger Picture on the Images, Words and Beyond tour.
All this is to say, I agree with your first line, Kev. This is an album that feels like it deserved better from me, the songwriting is on it is mostly very good.

Dream Theater
My rank: 14th of 15

Too 5:
1. Behind the Veil
2. The Bigger Picture
3. Illumination Theory
4. Surrender to Reason
5. The Enemy Inside

My current standing
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9. Black Clouds and Silver Linings
10.
11. Systematic Chaos
12.
13. When Dream And Day Unite
14. Dream Theater
15. The Astonishing

[Lonk]

15. Black Clouds and Silver Lining
14. Dream Theater
13. When Dream and Day Unite
12. Systematic Chaos
11. ??
10. ??
9. ??
8. The Astonishing
7. ??
6. ??
5. ??
4. ??
3. ??
2. ??
1. ??

[T-ski]

#6.

Outside “The Enemy Inside” and “Enigma Machine” I enjoy every song on this album. Plus “Illumination Theory” is amazing.

[Animal]

So far, the results have been quite close to DT album rankings on Progarchives.  http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=378

Curious to what extent is this countdown going to reflect the Progarchives community rankings. My guess is that more metal stuff is gonna be better appreciated here compared to proggy albums.

[wolfking]

Love this album.  Was number 5 for me.  Not much not to like on this.  IT is one if the best things I've ever heard.

[Podaar]

This album definitely doesn't deserves better than where I ranked it, but using the ranking app, this is where it shows up. Like Kev says, I just never listen to it anymore. That being said, I don't dislike a single song on this album, and really dig a couple.

15   When Dream and Day Unite
14   Dream Theater
13   Black Clouds and Silver Linings
12   The Astonishing
11   Systematic Chaos
10
9
8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1

[devieira73]

11.   Dream Theater (#11); grade (7.8/10)

Top 4 songs: The Looking Glass, Illumination Theory, The Enemy Inside and Enigma Machine.

I think it would be much better appreciated if it had the same production than D/T. One of the weirdest drum recordings and overall mix I’ve ever heard in an album!

[jammindude]

Wow! 4th album in a row with a lower average score than the last place finisher! That’s really surprising at this point!

I had this at #5. I consider it to be the best album of the Mangini era. (A View is close, but not quite)

I love everything on this album, and I still reach for it fairly regularly.

[Adami]

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9. Black Clouds and Silver Linings
10. The Astonishing
11. Systematic Chaos
12. When Dream and Day Unite
13. Dream Theater
14.
15.



Still no gaps in my list! That's gotta count for something. 

But yes, I don't really enjoy the bulk of this album. I dig False Awakening Suite mostly, Behind the Veil is okay, and I really love about 3/4 of Illumination Theory until their overly preachy and happy ending. Can't say much good about any of the other songs. Also the production makes it difficult to listen to.

[Mladen]

Having loved Black clouds and Dramatic on release, this was the first one I though was just good. I also hardly listen to it nowadays. There are some fine songs on it, though, and I enjoyed the tour a lot. 

15.
14.
13. When Dream and Day Unite
12. Dream Theater
11.
10.
9.
8. Black clouds & silver linings
7. Systematic Chaos
6.
5. The Astonishing
4.
3.
2.
1.

[krands85]

I had it in 11th too. I was pretty disappointed with it when it came out, though now I feel like I've maybe been a bit harsh on it, but I don't think it has really moved in my rankings since it came out.

15. When Dream and Day Unite
14. Black Clouds and Silver Linings
13.
12.
11. Dream Theater
10. The Astonishing
9. Systematic Chaos
8.
7.
6.
5.
4.
3.
2.
1.

Illumination Theory is the real standout and in my top 10. It doesn't always get as much love as the other 'epics', but Octavarium is the only one of those that I rank above it. The Enemy Inside is my second favourite on the album, just a good 'metal single' type song which I always feel they're pretty good at. Excellent JP solo as ever too! Then there are three tracks which I often kind of see as a group, not just because they run consecutively on the album, but because of the quality of them - The Bigger Picture, Behind the Veil and Surrender to Reason. The latter is my favourite of the three, but I feel like it could have been a little longer, though I think they were trying to go for the more concise approach to the songs on this album, aside from IT. Rounding off the songs I enjoy, I always liked FAS as the album opener too.

The other 3 songs drag things down a fair bit. I've never liked The Looking Glass for some reason, it's one of my least favourite in their discography. Enigma Machine has never appealed to me either, I prefer just about every other DT instrumental. Finally, Along for the Ride, which I don't think is great - they have plenty of 'ballads' which are much better.

EDIT: Forgot about the production which isn't great. I remember getting a bit of listening fatigue when this came out, until I got the HDTracks version, but maybe that was just placebo.

[Lethean]

I had this at #7.  I think this is a great album all around.  Every track is great and then Illumination Theory is just brilliant.

[Dream Team]

Wow! 4th album in a row with a lower average score than the last place finisher! That’s really surprising at this point!

I had this at #5. I consider it to be the best album of the Mangini era. (A View is close, but not quite)

I love everything on this album, and I still reach for it fairly regularly.

A lower average is GOOD - the higher the average, the lower the ranking. Anyway, I believe I had this 6th. Just great songwriting throughout. My faves are STR, IT, and BTV.

[SeRoX]

One thing. The post production takes the awesomeness away from it. Lyrics, music, progressiveness and vocals are all great. I love this album. The Enemy Inside is their best single since Awake/Lie for me.

I would rank it higher if it has had better post production. Bass and drum are huge let down.

[Stadler]

I definitely agree with a some of the criticisms of the album, but have always been a little perplexed with the vitriol it seems to generate. I've read people say they listened once, then never again, which seems kind of crazy to me, but whatever.

It is, especially if you are a fan, but that is life in the 21st century where so much music is a mouse click away.  35 years ago, I think this album would have had a chance to eventually be recognized by more for being good, but with so music available nowadays and most not buying physical product, it is easy to dismiss an album you don't like at first and never go back to it.  In the days of buying albums or CDs, where digital music was not available, the average person was far more likely to give an album they didn't like at first more chances, but those days are long gone.

Dare I say this is their The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway and/or Tales From Topographic Oceans?  Two albums that were maligned at the time, that didn't always maintain a faithful following by the fanbase, but in later years took on a sort of retroactive view?  I don't know that The Astonishing will ever rise to that level, but I know for me, whereas I used to spend a lot of time with TLLDOB and TFTO, I've only listened to TA a handful of times, and while I owe it another listen at some point, I can't imagine ever giving it the time that I gave to TLLDOB, an album that I've come to love, and is, at any given time, my favorite Gabriel-era Genesis record.    It should be noted, too, that both albums (less so, TFTO) are not best absorbed by listening to individual songs out of context.

This is my second-to-last record on my list, if memory serves.

[The Letter M]

01.
02.
03.
04.
05.
06.
07.
08.
09. Black Clouds & Silver Linings
10.
11.
12. Systematic Chaos
13. Dream Theater
14. When Dream And Day Unite
15. The Astonishing

Like Kev, I rarely listen to this one anymore but I really liked it when it came out, especially "Illumination Theory", but the other songs have been hit or miss for me since then. It's easily my 2nd least favorite of the Mangini albums, but I definitely like it a fair bit more than TA.

-Marc.

[Stadler]

Honest question; why do we give so much slack to TA on the grounds that "this is what the band were going for so they should get credit for achievement", but fail to do the same with other material (TBOT was the song that triggered this thought).  IF we give credit to "artist intent", then shouldn't TBOT - something that I recall Mike being on record as being VERY proud of, and rightfully so - get the same acknowledgement?