2020 NFL Thread v. Tom Brady aging better than Mila Kunis

[KevShmev]

It's hard to complain about getting another week of football, given the addition of a 17th game, but it is gonna make the record books all goofy now with all players going forward having the opportunity to play 17 games a season instead of 16.

I thought Darnold looked good at times, despite the mess in NY, so I think he will do well in Carolina.  If he does not, he has no complaints as he is going to a team with a stud RB and good wideouts (he played with Anderson already, and DJ Moore is the best WR no one talks about outside of FF'ers).

[Dream Team]

The 16 games and 4 team/4-division setup was beautiful in it's symmetry. This 17th game is a travesty, but at least we finally get Mahomes vs Rodgers.

[Stadler]

The 16 games and 4 team/4-division setup was beautiful in it's symmetry. This 17th game is a travesty, but at least we finally get Mahomes vs Rodgers.

For the rights to play Brady? Sounds like a good deal.

[El Barto]

The 16 games and 4 team/4-division setup was beautiful in it's symmetry. This 17th game is a travesty, but at least we finally get Mahomes vs Rodgers.

Punctuation aside, I agree. I wasn't crazy about the new playoff format, but at least we got an extra playoff game out of it. Those mean something. Just slapping another inter-conference game into the middle of the season doesn't add much, and it mucks up an elegant regular season format. Not to mention the record books, and the established norms.

[hunnus2000]

The 16 games and 4 team/4-division setup was beautiful in it's symmetry. This 17th game is a travesty, but at least we finally get Mahomes vs Rodgers.

Punctuation aside, I agree. I wasn't crazy about the new playoff format, but at least we got an extra playoff game out of it. Those mean something. Just slapping another inter-conference game into the middle of the season doesn't add much, and it mucks up an elegant regular season format. Not to mention the record books, and the established norms.

It's one step away from getting that 18th game the owners want. When is the next CBA?

[pg1067]

The 16 games and 4 team/4-division setup was beautiful in it's symmetry. This 17th game is a travesty, but at least we finally get Mahomes vs Rodgers.

Punctuation aside, I agree. I wasn't crazy about the new playoff format, but at least we got an extra playoff game out of it. Those mean something. Just slapping another inter-conference game into the middle of the season doesn't add much, and it mucks up an elegant regular season format. Not to mention the record books, and the established norms.

It's one step away from getting that 18th game the owners want. When is the next CBA?

Once the 17th game was in place, the 18-game season was a foregone conclusion because a 17-game schedule is stupid.  As long as they get rid of half of the preseason, I don't really mind, and season ticket holders should be happy.  They were paying for 10 games - 8 in the regular season and 2 in the preseason - and the preseason games were the same price as the regular season games.  With an 18-game season, and assuming there are only 2 preseason games, they'll still be paying for 10 games, but only one will be a meaningless exhibition.

[El Barto]

I guess I'm kind of the minority, but I like pre-season. I like seeing people playing for an opportunity to make the team. On every team you know who 35 of the players are going to be any given year. I like seeing the other 30 play. Also, you occasionally get a thrilling game, even if it is meaningless. A good contest is a good contest whether it's allstars or amateurs. It is a game, after all. There was a Cowboys preseason game about 10 years back that was fantastic. By the 4th quarter even the owners were on the field enjoying the game. Whether or not it counted in the standings didn't really matter when both teams are playing with heart (and they were).

[KevShmev]

The 16 games and 4 team/4-division setup was beautiful in it's symmetry. This 17th game is a travesty, but at least we finally get Mahomes vs Rodgers.

For the rights to play Brady? Sounds like a good deal.

Haha. The whole this qb vs that qb thing is overrated anyway.  Rarely do the hyped QB matchup games live up to the billing.  The QB's are not on the field at the same time, so it's not like they are literally going against one another.  Heck, Brady has a losing playoff record against Nick Foles, Eli Manning, Jake Plummer and Mark Sanchez, but a winning one vs Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Patrick Mahomes and Philip Rivers, so that just shows you how meaningless that fun little stat can be.

[Stadler]

The 16 games and 4 team/4-division setup was beautiful in it's symmetry. This 17th game is a travesty, but at least we finally get Mahomes vs Rodgers.

For the rights to play Brady? Sounds like a good deal.

Haha. The whole this qb vs that qb thing is overrated anyway.  Rarely do the hyped QB matchup games live up to the billing.  The QB's are not on the field at the same time, so it's not like they are literally going against one another.  Heck, Brady has a losing playoff record against Nick Foles, Eli Manning, Jake Plummer and Mark Sanchez, but a winning one vs Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Patrick Mahomes and Philip Rivers, so that just shows you how meaningless that fun little stat can be.

Well, all that.  But I responded because Dream Team wouldn't allow Brady to cut his lawn and there are those here that fawn over Mahomes like he's next in line for the British throne, the replacement for Neil Peart and the next James Bond all rolled into one.   I needed to insert a little perspective, is all.   

[hefdaddy42]

I guess I'm kind of the minority, but I like pre-season. I like seeing people playing for an opportunity to make the team. On every team you know who 35 of the players are going to be any given year. I like seeing the other 30 play. Also, you occasionally get a thrilling game, even if it is meaningless. A good contest is a good contest whether it's allstars or amateurs. It is a game, after all. There was a Cowboys preseason game about 10 years back that was fantastic. By the 4th quarter even the owners were on the field enjoying the game. Whether or not it counted in the standings didn't really matter when both teams are playing with heart (and they were).

I'm with you.  I've always liked preseason games (although I completely understand why players don't really care for them).

[hunnus2000]

I don't mind preseason but have felt there were too many games and the players should get some sort of compensation for the games. But after last season, I think there are definite benefits to having a preseason.

Also, with the adding of games I just hope we go back to starting the season off on Labor Day weekend. I loved having that Monday holiday and thought that was the perfect weekend to kick things off! 

[Dream Team]

The 16 games and 4 team/4-division setup was beautiful in it's symmetry. This 17th game is a travesty, but at least we finally get Mahomes vs Rodgers.

For the rights to play Brady? Sounds like a good deal.

Haha. The whole this qb vs that qb thing is overrated anyway.  Rarely do the hyped QB matchup games live up to the billing.  The QB's are not on the field at the same time, so it's not like they are literally going against one another.  Heck, Brady has a losing playoff record against Nick Foles, Eli Manning, Jake Plummer and Mark Sanchez, but a winning one vs Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Patrick Mahomes and Philip Rivers, so that just shows you how meaningless that fun little stat can be.

Well, all that.  But I responded because Dream Team wouldn't allow Brady to cut his lawn and there are those here that fawn over Mahomes like he's next in line for the British throne, the replacement for Neil Peart and the next James Bond all rolled into one.   I needed to insert a little perspective, is all.   

I absolutely would let TB12 cut my lawn. If he messed it up I know his co-workers (defense) would have his back  .

All kidding aside, I also hate 16 teams having an extra road game. And I was referring to Mahomes-Rodgers in the regular season which is their 17th game this year. But let’s face it, that would have been the Super Bowl matchup if not for Kevin freaking King and assclown Olsen.

[El Barto]

Edelman will be missed. I've been a fan since 2011 when I watched him make two clutch plays on D filling in at corner during a playoff game, while also playing WR. Then the Patriots cut him during the offseason.    Didn't expect him to become one of Brady's favorite receivers going forward, but he turned out to be OK. Sorry to see he can't keep playing, but it sounds like he's done. Wouldn't be terribly surprised if Brady recruits him in Tampa, but everything I've seen is that he'll never be able to play a whole season. At best he could get the Jason Whitten treatment, and I doubt that would really work out.

[TAC]

I absolutely would let TB12 cut my lawn.

[TAC]

Just want to say that Julian Edelman was a FUCKING BALLER!

[King Postwhore]

Tough as nails.  Willing to go where most receivers won't go and clutch as all hell.  Thank you Julian. 

[KevShmev]

I won't knock Edelman because we all have players on our favorite teams who weren't all-time greats, but were special players for the franchise.  I get why Patriots fans love the guy. 

[TAC]

Well, gee thanks Kev, but why would you knock him anyway? There's nothing to really knock him for.

He was a nobody that came on and replaced Welker. He was tough as nails and turned himself into one of the best receivers in the league. The guy could get open in traffic and will be overlooked because he didn't run really fast and catch the long ball.

[faizoff]

I'm not a patriots follower but Edelman was indeed the fucking bomb. He was mini Welker in the beginning and then overtook him. Tough that he's not physically there anymore but seeing the beating he got, I guess it shouldn't surprise anyone.

[KevShmev]

Well, gee thanks Kev, but why would you knock him anyway? There's nothing to really knock him for.

He was a nobody that came on and replaced Welker. He was tough as nails and turned himself into one of the best receivers in the league. The guy could get open in traffic and will be overlooked because he didn't run really fast and catch the long ball.

I would only knock him in the sense that it is silly to say the turned himself into one of the best receivers in the league because, well, he was never one of the best receivers in the league.  If you want to call that a knock, so be it, but while a clutch playoff performer at times, he never even made a Pro Bowl (and everyone makes the Pro Bowl).  Sorry, but you weren't one of the best at your position if you played one where eight players make it every year (and usually more once you get to alternates) and you could never even make one.  See, you just made me "knock" him.

[TAC]

Who in your mind were the best receivers of his generation?

[KevShmev]

Assuming we are talking about the last 10+ years...

Calvin Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Julio Jones
Antonio Brown
DeAndre Hopkins

To me, that is easily the top 5 of the last decade. Edelman would not be 6th (I could list 5 more at minimum and he would not be one of them). 

[TAC]

Assuming we are talking about the last 10+ years...

Calvin Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Julio Jones
Antonio Brown
DeAndre Hopkins

To me, that is easily the top 5 of the last decade. Edelman would not be 6th (I could list 5 more at minimum and he would not be one of them).

List them then..
Give me the 10 guys you feel are better than Edelman..

[KevShmev]

Assuming we are talking about the last 10+ years...

Calvin Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Julio Jones
Antonio Brown
DeAndre Hopkins

To me, that is easily the top 5 of the last decade. Edelman would not be 6th (I could list 5 more at minimum and he would not be one of them).

List them then..
Give me the 10 guys you feel are better than Edelman..

Sir, yes, sir!

Calvin Johnson
Larry Fitzgerald
Julio Jones
Antonio Brown
DeAndre Hopkins
AJ Green
Mike Evans
Andre Johnson
Tyreek Hill
Demaryius Thomas

Shall I go on?

[TAC]

No I'm good. Crunching numbers...


...we'll have to pick this up tomorrow. I've got my report ready, but it's too late to discuss further.

[KevShmev]

Works for me. I am getting sleepy anyway, and would rather save a good laugh for when I'm fully awake. 

[El Barto]

Well, gee thanks Kev, but why would you knock him anyway? There's nothing to really knock him for.

He was a nobody that came on and replaced Welker. He was tough as nails and turned himself into one of the best receivers in the league. The guy could get open in traffic and will be overlooked because he didn't run really fast and catch the long ball.

I would only knock him in the sense that it is silly to say the turned himself into one of the best receivers in the league because, well, he was never one of the best receivers in the league.  If you want to call that a knock, so be it, but while a clutch playoff performer at times, he never even made a Pro Bowl (and everyone makes the Pro Bowl).  Sorry, but you weren't one of the best at your position if you played one where eight players make it every year (and usually more once you get to alternates) and you could never even make one.  See, you just made me "knock" him.

Depends on your criteria, I suppose. He was one of the toughest and most reliable receivers anybody could ask for for 8 or so years. I saw your list of ten for TAC, and I could probably add ten more. That doesn't diminish how good JE was, though. And where you say that he was a clutch playoff performer at times, I'd say that he was a clutch performer in every game he played in. That's a big part of what made him special.

[KevShmev]

Depends on your criteria, I suppose. He was one of the toughest and most reliable receivers anybody could ask for for 8 or so years. I saw your list of ten for TAC, and I could probably add ten more. That doesn't diminish how good JE was, though. And where you say that he was a clutch playoff performer at times, I'd say that he was a clutch performer in every game he played in. That's a big part of what made him special.

Serious question: how was he reliable for 8 years or so when he missed tons of games?  2013-2020 was obviously his best stretch, and he missed 23 out of a possible 128 games.  I have a hard time calling someone reliable over an 8-year stretch where they missed 17% of the games due to injuries.

I will stand by what I have said before: it is a testament to the greatness of Tom Brady that he made a WR like Julian freaking Edelman look so good at times (to the tune of a whopping 41 touchdown catches in 12 seasons COUNTING the playoffs).

I think we have to remember that WR's are not QB's.  Fair or not, QB, not WR, is the one position in football where your playoff success or lack thereof heavily impacts your legacy. 

[TAC]

Serious question: how was he reliable for 8 years or so when he missed tons of games?  2013-2020 was obviously his best stretch, and he missed 23 out of a possible 128 games.  I have a hard time calling someone reliable over an 8-year stretch where they missed 17% of the games due to injuries.

I suppose if all of his catches were going deep down the sidelines, he'd have stayed a bit healthier, no? His catches were in the "dirty" area of the field. He was damn near killed on many occasions.

[KevShmev]

I suppose if all of his catches were going deep down the sidelines, he'd have stayed a bit healthier, no? His catches were in the "dirty" area of the field. He was damn near killed on many occasions.

Agreed, but that is the hair in the soup.  He wasn't a good enough receiver to be a deep threat or a big play WR; he was a possession WR, tough as nails for sure, but when you play that style, you are going to take more hits and staying healthy can be difficult. Same with Welker.  And that is the thing. Edelman was basically a lesser version of Welker, but because they won Super Bowls with Edelman and not with Welker, many think Edelman was the better of the two when that was not reality.

[TAC]

Well he was 5' 10" and not 6' 3". You probably know football more than me, but just because a guy runs really fast down the field does not make him a better receiver.

And as a "possession" receiver, did he somehow impact his teams' games less than say...Calvin Johnson, who averaged LESS THAN one more catch per game than Edelman.


I'd also argue that Edelman saved Brady's ass countless times.

[KevShmev]

Well, catches is the most overrated stat now in football (and I have held this position for years, so it is not a new one that I pulled out to diss Edelman, FYI).  The game has changed now to where everyone catches a million balls.

Here is a different analogy: if Edelman played hockey, he'd be on the 3rd line. Ya know, the line that does the grunt and dirty work, and chips in with big plays at times that can make a difference on championship teams.  Edelman is to the Patriots as guys like Darren McCarty and Kris Draper were to the Red Wings back in the day. 

[TAC]

Catches are overrated?

[KevShmev]

Catches are overrated?

Yes. I am not saying catches do not matter, but when looking at WR stats, I believe yards per catch, total receiving yards and touchdowns tell more of the tale of one's greatness over time.

[King Postwhore]

If you look at his stats, he's not HOF material.  I think what hurts him is that he had a QB that threw to 8 to 10 receivers a game always spreading the ball.  The old running joke was that Brady's favorite receiver is the open receiver.  Though if you watched every game you knew that he was the go to when you needed a must catch, a third down.  He always seems to get open when needed.  Add the #'s he put up in the playoffs and that makes for an interesting discussion.