Why wasn't XTC more popular in the States?

[ChuckSteak]

^ Who can judge which ones deserve success and which ones don't? It enters the realm of taste and subjectivity. The people who enjoy XTC would probably agree they deserved more success, while those who dislike them would say they got as much success as they deserved.

I would politely disagree about this rule that bands achieve the success they deserve.

[KevShmev]

Or.... bands get the popularity they deserve.   Always exceptions, life is about exceptions, but bell-curve generally, bands achieve the success they deserve.

[Stadler]

^ Who can judge which ones deserve success and which ones don't? It enters the realm of taste and subjectivity. The people who enjoy XTC would probably agree they deserved more success, while those who dislike them would say they got as much success as they deserved.

I would politely disagree about this rule that bands achieve the success they deserve.

Kev's got it right (though I don't know if he's agreeing with me or not).  Maybe "deserve" is the wrong word, but this notion that "if only people could HEAR Dream Theater, they'd be as big as Beiber!".... no.   "XTC" appealed to the people they appealed to, and they didn't to those that they didn't.  So their success level is right where it "should be".  No taste, no subjectivity, no nothing.  This notion that "I like them therefore in a perfect world they'd be touring stadia without an album to support!" is what I'm pushing back on.   In that sense, we agree, I think. 

[KevShmev]

I am not sure I am agreeing with you or not.

I mean, there are a lot of bands where I think, "They should be more popular," but if I sit and think about it, it is kind of obvious why they are not.  Take one of my favorites, Neal Morse.  In a prefect world, he would be huge, but his style was already too much for the masses and was only even going to appeal to a niche audience, and that was before he went the overtly spiritual route.

In the case of XTC, I think they had enough catchy pop songs to where they should have been bigger, but a variety of factors worked against them, some self-inflicted, although while it seems unfair to say that Andy Partridge being unable to tour because he got stage fright due to going off Valium was self-inflicted, he does admit now that a big part of it was that he was sick of touring and he just didn't want to do it anymore (they were getting robbed blind by their management and the record company, and he was tired of the relentless touring and making nothing). 

[KevShmev]

Article on Andy Partridge (from last October):

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/oct/20/my-dream-had-died-xtcs-andy-partridge-on-mental-illness-battling-the-music-industry-and-losing-his-muse

Kind of a sad story when you think about it.  He seems like both a brilliant guy and a pain in the ass (no wonder he and Steven Wilson are pals now ), but even though he didn't get rich in the business, he should be proud of the music he and XTC made.

[King Postwhore]

I'll check this out tonight Kev. Thanks. 

[KevShmev]

I'll check this out tonight Kev. Thanks.

 

It still makes me a little bummed that more people don't listen to XTC, but it is what it is. I have revisited a lot of their stuff in the last week, and so much of it holds up really well.  So many albums, so many good songs.

[EPICVIEW]

Of course they are; I bought "Oranges and Lemons" as part of a bulk eBay purchase and was blown away.  What a strong, well-crafted record.   I really love Squeeze and there was a lot of things about that XTC record that made me think - in a good way - of Squeeze.  But I've never even heard OF "Dear God" than heard it.  The only other song I've heard is "Making Plans For Nigel", and that's only because I have it on an '80's compilation (and a version by Primus, which is EXCELLENT).

I like to squeeze oranges and lemons too!

This thread is RIPE for humor 

[HOF]

XTC are great. I'm trying to get myself back in the headspace for writing up my top 50 pop albums (been too much going on in general), but whenever I do I have an XTC album on tap for the next one.

[soupytwist]

Okay, there are obvious reasons like, "they stopped touring in 1982," and "they were too British for some," but it had to be more than that.

They honestly weren't very big in the UK.

[KevShmev]

XTC are great. I'm trying to get myself back in the headspace for writing up my top 50 pop albums (been too much going on in general), but whenever I do I have an XTC album on tap for the next one.

 

Okay, there are obvious reasons like, "they stopped touring in 1982," and "they were too British for some," but it had to be more than that.

They honestly weren't very big in the UK.

True.  Bigger than here in the States, but still not that popular when looking at the charting of their albums and singles in real time.  Not touring after 1982 sure didn't help.  When you think about it, it's amazing the core 3 stayed together as long as they did, as I am sure Colin Moulding and Dave Gregory couldn't have been crazy about being in a band that long that couldn't tour. And both were talented, so it's not like either couldn't have found another good gig fairly easily.

[HOF]

XTC are great. I'm trying to get myself back in the headspace for writing up my top 50 pop albums (been too much going on in general), but whenever I do I have an XTC album on tap for the next one.

 

Okay, there are obvious reasons like, "they stopped touring in 1982," and "they were too British for some," but it had to be more than that.

They honestly weren't very big in the UK.

True.  Bigger than here in the States, but still not that popular when looking at the charting of their albums and singles in real time.  Not touring after 1982 sure didn't help.  When you think about it, it's amazing the core 3 stayed together as long as they did, as I am sure Colin Moulding and Dave Gregory couldn't have been crazy about being in a band that long that couldn't tour. And both were talented, so it's not like either couldn't have found another good gig fairly easily.

I think the lack of touring suited Dave Gregory's personality well enough. He doesn't seem like the type who ever would have relished the rock and roll lifestyle.

[KevShmev]

I think the lack of touring suited Dave Gregory's personality well enough. He doesn't seem like the type who ever would have relished the rock and roll lifestyle.

Good point.  It makes you wonder how many music stars would love to never tour.  I am sure there are plenty who love maybe not the constant travel, but being in front of live crowds and playing and getting that instant (hopefully) positive feedback.  On the flip side, I am sure there are many who would love it if they could make a good living by just recording and releasing music, even back in the day when it was somewhat realistic (vs now, where good luck with that). 

[pg1067]

I think the lack of touring suited Dave Gregory's personality well enough. He doesn't seem like the type who ever would have relished the rock and roll lifestyle.

Good point.  It makes you wonder how many music stars would love to never tour.  I am sure there are plenty who love maybe not the constant travel, but being in front of live crowds and playing and getting that instant (hopefully) positive feedback.  On the flip side, I am sure there are many who would love it if they could make a good living by just recording and releasing music, even back in the day when it was somewhat realistic (vs now, where good luck with that).

See, e.g., Neil Peart.

[KevShmev]

I think the lack of touring suited Dave Gregory's personality well enough. He doesn't seem like the type who ever would have relished the rock and roll lifestyle.

Good point.  It makes you wonder how many music stars would love to never tour.  I am sure there are plenty who love maybe not the constant travel, but being in front of live crowds and playing and getting that instant (hopefully) positive feedback.  On the flip side, I am sure there are many who would love it if they could make a good living by just recording and releasing music, even back in the day when it was somewhat realistic (vs now, where good luck with that).

See, e.g., Neil Peart.

Yep, yep, he'd would be one of the more obvious examples. 

The major advantage to XTC not touring is that they went into the studio with an "anything goes" approach, since they didn't have to worry about playing any of the songs live.  I doubt something like Apple Venus, Volume 1 would have seen the light of day as is otherwise, and that would have been a damn shame.

[Stadler]

I think the lack of touring suited Dave Gregory's personality well enough. He doesn't seem like the type who ever would have relished the rock and roll lifestyle.

Good point.  It makes you wonder how many music stars would love to never tour.  I am sure there are plenty who love maybe not the constant travel, but being in front of live crowds and playing and getting that instant (hopefully) positive feedback.  On the flip side, I am sure there are many who would love it if they could make a good living by just recording and releasing music, even back in the day when it was somewhat realistic (vs now, where good luck with that).

Isn't that the issue that (in part) imploded Jellyfish?

[KevShmev]

I think the lack of touring suited Dave Gregory's personality well enough. He doesn't seem like the type who ever would have relished the rock and roll lifestyle.

Good point.  It makes you wonder how many music stars would love to never tour.  I am sure there are plenty who love maybe not the constant travel, but being in front of live crowds and playing and getting that instant (hopefully) positive feedback.  On the flip side, I am sure there are many who would love it if they could make a good living by just recording and releasing music, even back in the day when it was somewhat realistic (vs now, where good luck with that).

Isn't that the issue that (in part) imploded Jellyfish?

I don't know enough about Jellyfish to speak on that, but it's funny you mention them in this thread, as I know when Rick Beato did his "what makes this song great" video on XTC's The Mayor of Simpleton a while back, he had with him one of the members of Jellyfish, who apparently is a big XTC fan.

And I need to revisit Jellyfish. I never heard them until a few years ago, but thought the first record was really, really good. I need to tackle the second a bit more.

[XeRocks81]

I think in america and canada the most well known xtc song is the Crash Test Dummies cover of Peter Pumkinhead (which I only learned was a cover a few years ago)

[KevShmev]

I think in america and canada the most well known xtc song is the Crash Test Dummies cover of Peter Pumkinhead (which I only learned was a cover a few years ago)

Your wording is a bit misleading, so to clear it up: The Ballad of Peter Pumpkinhead is an XTC original written by Andy Partridge that Crash Test Dummies later covered.

[XeRocks81]

yeah that’s what I meant 

[Stadler]

Maybe it's my age, but growing up in the MTV era, the only two songs I ever heard by XTC before I sought them out on my own are "Senses Working Overtime" and "The Mayor Of Simpleton", and the former FAR eclipsed the latter. 

[HOF]

The Mayor of Simpleton is an amazing track though. Love that bass line. The Ballad of Peter Pumpkin Head is up there among my favorite songs of theirs as well. The entire Nonsuch album is tremendous. The band at the height of their power IMO.

[SoundscapeMN]

I think the lack of touring suited Dave Gregory's personality well enough. He doesn't seem like the type who ever would have relished the rock and roll lifestyle.

Good point.  It makes you wonder how many music stars would love to never tour.  I am sure there are plenty who love maybe not the constant travel, but being in front of live crowds and playing and getting that instant (hopefully) positive feedback.  On the flip side, I am sure there are many who would love it if they could make a good living by just recording and releasing music, even back in the day when it was somewhat realistic (vs now, where good luck with that).

Isn't that the issue that (in part) imploded Jellyfish?

I don't know enough about Jellyfish to speak on that, but it's funny you mention them in this thread, as I know when Rick Beato did his "what makes this song great" video on XTC's The Mayor of Simpleton a while back, he had with him one of the members of Jellyfish, who apparently is a big XTC fan.

And I need to revisit Jellyfish. I never heard them until a few years ago, but thought the first record was really, really good. I need to tackle the second a bit more.

The Jellyfish guys definitely were XTC fans, and you can hear it in their music.

Touring may have had something to do with Jellyfish's break up, but most of the documented information pointed towards Andy Sturmer and Roger Manning having creative differences. I recall Roger mentioned in an interview recently, how Andy wanted to make a record inspired by Leonard Cohen after Spilt Milk.

That and the process of making Spilt Milk I think led to conflict. They kind of pulled out all their hair making that record.

Unfortunately, Andy and Roger don't really get along, so the odds of a reunion ever happening are still slim to none. Otherwise, things like The Lickerish Quartet likely wouldn't have happened, and it would have been with Andy and they would have just reformed Jellyfish instead.

[Stadler]

I think the lack of touring suited Dave Gregory's personality well enough. He doesn't seem like the type who ever would have relished the rock and roll lifestyle.

Good point.  It makes you wonder how many music stars would love to never tour.  I am sure there are plenty who love maybe not the constant travel, but being in front of live crowds and playing and getting that instant (hopefully) positive feedback.  On the flip side, I am sure there are many who would love it if they could make a good living by just recording and releasing music, even back in the day when it was somewhat realistic (vs now, where good luck with that).

Isn't that the issue that (in part) imploded Jellyfish?

I don't know enough about Jellyfish to speak on that, but it's funny you mention them in this thread, as I know when Rick Beato did his "what makes this song great" video on XTC's The Mayor of Simpleton a while back, he had with him one of the members of Jellyfish, who apparently is a big XTC fan.

And I need to revisit Jellyfish. I never heard them until a few years ago, but thought the first record was really, really good. I need to tackle the second a bit more.

The Jellyfish guys definitely were XTC fans, and you can hear it in their music.

Touring may have had something to do with Jellyfish's break up, but most of the documented information pointed towards Andy Sturmer and Roger Manning having creative differences. I recall Roger mentioned in an interview recently, how Andy wanted to make a record inspired by Leonard Cohen after Spilt Milk.

That and the process of making Spilt Milk I think led to conflict. They kind of pulled out all their hair making that record.

Unfortunately, Andy and Roger don't really get along, so the odds of a reunion ever happening are still slim to none. Otherwise, things like The Lickerish Quartet likely wouldn't have happened, and it would have been with Andy and they would have just reformed Jellyfish instead.

Yeah, I think you're right; I was thinking that the detail on Spilt Milk, and the notion that they were sort of moving from a "group" to a "project" (kind of like the latter day Beatles) might have come to a head with "touring" but that's probably a minor part of it.

[KevShmev]

Maybe it's my age, but growing up in the MTV era, the only two songs I ever heard by XTC before I sought them out on my own are "Senses Working Overtime" and "The Mayor Of Simpleton", and the former FAR eclipsed the latter.

I am shocked that you didn't hear Dear God back in the day, given your age, as that was apparently really popular amongst the college kids, and that should have been right around your time there, right?

The Mayor of Simpleton is an amazing track though. Love that bass line. The Ballad of Peter Pumpkin Head is up there among my favorite songs of theirs as well. The entire Nonsuch album is tremendous. The band at the height of their power IMO.

Nonsuch is the classic 90's "it would have been a lot better had a little of the dead weight been cut off" album (a very good 17-track album could have been a GREAT 12-track album).  That said, it has a lot of great stuff for sure.

[HOF]

Maybe it's my age, but growing up in the MTV era, the only two songs I ever heard by XTC before I sought them out on my own are "Senses Working Overtime" and "The Mayor Of Simpleton", and the former FAR eclipsed the latter.

I am shocked that you didn't hear Dear God back in the day, given your age, as that was apparently really popular amongst the college kids, and that should have been right around your time there, right?

The Mayor of Simpleton is an amazing track though. Love that bass line. The Ballad of Peter Pumpkin Head is up there among my favorite songs of theirs as well. The entire Nonsuch album is tremendous. The band at the height of their power IMO.

Nonsuch is the classic 90's "it would have been a lot better had a little of the dead weight been cut off" album (a very good 17-track album could have been a GREAT 12-track album).  That said, it has a lot of great stuff for sure.

Yeah, they could have trimmed a bit of it (stuff like Crocodile or Omnibus, or one of the three closing tracks each of which felt like the album closer!), but I do like all of it.

[KevShmev]

Bite your tongue!  Omnibus is one of my favorite XTC songs in general.  I just love it.

[HOF]

Bite your tongue!  Omnibus is one of my favorite XTC songs in general.  I just love it.

Hah, I guess that just illustrates the difficulty in cutting down Nonsuch to a shorter album!

[KevShmev]

I just love how the trumpet spends the bulk of Omnibus, in essence, chasing the vocal.  Very cool effect, the way that was done.