Question to people abroad...

[Sebastián Pratesi]

0. I live in Argentina.
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1. Last Friday, I was walking back to my flat, and it was my turn to cross two-way street A - which, of course, coincided with the turn to keep on moving for cars on street B. (Street B being perpendicular to street A.)

I started crossing street A at the same time as this car from street B was turning to its right (i.e. to my left). As I always do, I slowed down my pace but kept on moving (to make it clear that I, as a pedestrian walking on a pedestrian crossing, had priority), but the car didn't seem to care. So, I walked slowly for a couple of seconds very close to the car. Once the car had completed its turn into street A, the driver blowed the horn; what's more, this guy on a motorcycle yelled at me: "Fuckface! Didn't you see that our street-light was green?".
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2. On Saturday, the final match of Libertadores (the most important South American soccer tournament) was to take place in Buenos Aires. The teams were River Plate and Boca Juniors - the two most popular teams in the country. This was to be the first River/Boca final in the tournament; the match was to be played at 5pm at River Plate's stadium. (The same one that appears on DVDs by AC/DC and The Police, and where countless international acts have performed.)

As Boca's bus (with the team's players and staff) approached the stadium, some River fans started throwing rocks and other items. Some rocks hit the bus' windows, the broken glass hurting one of the players. Furthermore, police intervened, which resulted in other players being accidentally pepper sprayed.

Of course, Boca complained, and the match was postponed by CONMEBOL until 6pm. Then, until 7.15pm. Then, until the following day at 5pm. Then, on Sunday, it was informed that the match would not take place that day, and that the date and location of the match would be decided on a meeting on Tuesday morning.

So, yesterday, the teams' presidents, along with CONMEBOL's and other organizations' presidents, held a meeting and published a press-release, according to which the game might take place on Saturday 8 or Sunday 9 in December, with the host country still to be determined. (There's talks about the US, Paraguay and Qatar.)

As of right now, Boca is trying to solve the issue (and win the match) legally, without playing.

Martín Ocampo, the Minister of Security of Buenos Aires, resigned two days ago as a consequence of all of this.
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3. As you might have heard/read on the news, Buenos Aires is the host of the upcoming G20 summit. Some key world leaders (such as the President of France) have already arrived, and the event is supposed to run from Friday into Saturday.

Yesterday, John Kirton, a Canadian Political Scientist who founded and directs the G20 and G7 Research Groups, was mugged and hurt by two men, half a block away from a summit site and a police station; fortunately, John was accompanied by two women who helped defend him. When they talked to the police, the latter said that this sort of things "happens three times a day".

And all of this happened while the city is basically shut down and the security efforts will be focused on the summit.

You can read some of John's tweets about his unlucky encounter here:
https://twitter.com/jjkirton/status/1067517863211208707
https://twitter.com/jjkirton/status/1067540467804450817
https://twitter.com/jjkirton/status/1067720185598144513
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I wrote all of the above because I'm considering moving to an English speaking country next year, and would like to know how much you think these sort of things will affect my getting a visa, or how I might be treated or talked to by people in First World countries. (By the way, I chose English because I love the language; I'm taking the IELTS test in two weeks. )

Also, to those who moved from a crappy place like Argentina to somewhere more civilized - what was (or has been) your experience?

Thanks!

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PS: By the way, the whole bit about violence within football fans/teams is the latest example; stuff like that has happened for a long time. (So many people have been hurt and died during similar events that, since 2013, fans of the visiting team are legally prohibited from attending the host team's stadium on big matches.)

[El Barto]

Why would any of those things effect you getting a visa? From what I can tell a country accepts you if they think that you'll be an asset. As long as you bring good job skills the fact that you come from a country of assholes probably won't matter. Most of us do.

On a side note, one of the things I found fascinating wandering around Europe was the way various cultures regard traffic laws. It's amazing how different they are. In Germany people wouldn't dream of entering an intersection without a light telling them to. In Italy people learned long ago that pedestrians have the right of way so they walk right out into traffic whenever they feel like it knowing people will stop for them. What you described sounds like France.

[Sebastián Pratesi]

1. Why would any of those things effect you getting a visa?

2. On a side note, one of the things I found fascinating wandering around Europe was the way various cultures regard traffic laws. It's amazing how different they are. In Germany people wouldn't dream of entering an intersection without a light telling them to. In Italy people learned long ago that pedestrians have the right of way so they walk right out into traffic whenever they feel like it knowing people will stop for them. What you described sounds like France.

1. I don't know - that's why I asked.

2. Interesting insight, thanks! And you're probably right. I've been to Paris only once, 5 years ago, but I've also been told a few times that we and the French have similar traits. And the Italian as well. In fact, what I've decided to do is exactly what you describe - walk into the traffic (as long as I have priority); people here have grown accustomed to letting the cars go first. (I was in a crowded city in India last year and, sadly, the same thing happens there too. I saw cars driving by without a care in the world while kids who were going to schoolwaited on the side. )

[El Barto]

That's interesting, because I thought the Italians were absolutely insane. Nobody can drive more than a few feet before they have to slam on their brakes. Every car you see has the front end banged up. When there weren't pedestrians around they all drove like anarchists trying to go as far as they could before somebody jumped out in front of them again. It was great fun to watch, but I wouldn't want to deal with it as part of my daily life. Personally, I try not to put my safety in the trust of people who might not be aware of their surroundings, the rules of the road, and their moral obligations.

[Lonk]

That's interesting, because I thought the Italians were absolutely insane. Nobody can drive more than a few feet before they have to slam on their brakes. Every car you see has the front end banged up. When there weren't pedestrians around they all drove like anarchists trying to go as far as they could before somebody jumped out in front of them again. It was great fun to watch, but I wouldn't want to deal with it as part of my daily life. Personally, I try not to put my safety in the trust of people who might not be aware of their surroundings, the rules of the road, and their moral obligations.

I have never seen crazier drivers than Greeks/Athenians. I seriously felt we were going to crash every 5 seconds. Same goes for drivers in Dominican Republic and Jamaica.

[Indiscipline]

That's interesting, because I thought the Italians were absolutely insane. Nobody can drive more than a few feet before they have to slam on their brakes. Every car you see has the front end banged up. When there weren't pedestrians around they all drove like anarchists trying to go as far as they could before somebody jumped out in front of them again. It was great fun to watch, but I wouldn't want to deal with it as part of my daily life. Personally, I try not to put my safety in the trust of people who might not be aware of their surroundings, the rules of the road, and their moral obligations.

This could be the most accurate description of Italian traffic behaviour I've ever read coming from "outside". Every foreigner friend or colleague I've driven around in Italy has manifested some kind of PTS syntoms, so to speak. It's the mindset, rooted in millennia of sly self-defeating individualism: "I come first, whatever I need to do/wherever I need to go comes first, I'm smarter, I'm gonna fock you before you fock me. Laws? Laws will be the first in line to fock me. "

May I ask what areas did you visit?

[Stadler]

That's interesting, because I thought the Italians were absolutely insane. Nobody can drive more than a few feet before they have to slam on their brakes. Every car you see has the front end banged up. When there weren't pedestrians around they all drove like anarchists trying to go as far as they could before somebody jumped out in front of them again. It was great fun to watch, but I wouldn't want to deal with it as part of my daily life. Personally, I try not to put my safety in the trust of people who might not be aware of their surroundings, the rules of the road, and their moral obligations.

This sounds like my experience in Istanbul.    Not just once, not even twice, but about twice a day, I would see two cars come to a screaching halt in front of each other (picture a police car cutting off a perp trying to escape) and each driver would get out of their car, scream at the other in Turkish for a moment or two (with requisite hand gestures) then get back in, kind of maneuver around each other and speed (exactly the word I need here) away. 

[MirrorMask]

I can only confirm, sadly, that italians suck at driving, and that they consider letting you pass a mortal offense and an attack on their virility. I never, EVER trust ANYONE when I drive - even at roundabouts, when I know it's my turn to pass first, I always keep an eye open to the ones approaching because sooner or later you'll find someone wanting to enter first anyway.

[El Barto]

That's interesting, because I thought the Italians were absolutely insane. Nobody can drive more than a few feet before they have to slam on their brakes. Every car you see has the front end banged up. When there weren't pedestrians around they all drove like anarchists trying to go as far as they could before somebody jumped out in front of them again. It was great fun to watch, but I wouldn't want to deal with it as part of my daily life. Personally, I try not to put my safety in the trust of people who might not be aware of their surroundings, the rules of the road, and their moral obligations.

This could be the most accurate description of Italian traffic behaviour I've ever read coming from "outside". Every foreigner friend or colleague I've driven around in Italy has manifested some kind of PTS syntoms, so to speak. It's the mindset, rooted in millennia of sly self-defeating individualism: "I come first, whatever I need to do/wherever I need to go comes first, I'm smarter, I'm gonna fock you before you fock me. Laws? Laws will be the first in line to fock me. "

May I ask what areas did you visit?

The typical tourist places. Rome, Florence, Milan, but I always made a point to lodge outside of town to be with the locals. So I'd spend a day in Florence but the night in Prato, 20 klicks up the road. Worked out really well. Better food, better people. Most of my experience with traffic was in Rome, obviously. I stayed on the other side of town from the historic part, so I spent a fair amount of time walking or riding a bus, which is certainly an adventure. Seemed to me that in the smaller towns people had the good sense to not drive anywhere.

[Indiscipline]

Sensible choices indeed. Now I understand where you're from nailing the topic perfectly. Thanks for the response!

[MoraWintersoul]

I wrote all of the above because I'm considering moving to an English speaking country next year, and would like to know how much you think these sort of things will affect my getting a visa, or how I might be treated or talked to by people in First World countries. (By the way, I chose English because I love the language; I'm taking the IELTS test in two weeks. )

Also, to those who moved from a crappy place like Argentina to somewhere more civilized - what was (or has been) your experience?

From what I've heard from a pal who lives in Argentina and plans on moving, nothing like that will influence your visa, you would need to find a job first and the company would pay for your relocation/visa. I would recommend you to look into your family tree and ask around whether you can get a European passport through, say, one of your grandparents if they were born in Italy, Spain, Germany or some other place... I don't know if any of those countries are giving out passports currently because in Serbia that's not an option, here people get Hungarian or Croatian passports I'm mentioning this because with an EU passport, moving to any of the EU countries would be a piece of cake as long as you save up enough money and look for jobs extra hard, because then you have the right to live anywhere in the EU as long as you can afford it. That is, if you don't make it to an English speaking country like the US first.

I'm from Serbia, it's also a crap country, youth unemployment is sky high, there's no hope for any sensible government to be assembled soon, people are poor, and because we are not in the EU, people go for desperate measures just to get out of here - middle managers, educated lawyers and other people with good jobs study for med school exams after work and take German lessons after that and after a few years they go off to work at the lowest levels in German (Austria is also popular, then Norway and Sweden for those who don't mind being farther away) hospitals and hospices for minimum wage, and they still report they're happier than they were in Serbia! It's crap.

My husband is a software developer and so I got a residence visa through him and moved out last year, he moved out the year before when he found a job. The first thing you would notice if you moved to a more civilized country is a sense of relief. You get away from the news and the madness, you get a taste of a more normal life. After that, you may start feeling some anger, because you notice the people in the country you went to aren't necessarily any better than your friends back home, who are also hard workers, civilized, polite, kind... but because they were born in the wrong country, they get the crappy life, and people somewhere else get the good life. But then again, you realize it could have been worse, and you will contribute to your new society and life will go on.

Some people will of course have stereotypes in mind when they hear where you're from - fortunately, most people think of positive stereotypes first. For you in particular, get ready to hear loads of "ah, the land of tango!" or something like that Of course, some people are racists or nationalists, but if it comes to arguing, every country you might end up in has something in their history they aren't proud of, so you can fire back 

[Indiscipline]

Lots of good points by MoraWintersoul above.

@Seb: from someone who's had many working experiences (involving short to long sojourns) in a lot of so-called First World countries, I'm happy to tell you that (in my experience) where you're from means exactly sweet fock all.  Key is who you are and the way you can respect and appreciate cultural differences. You've always read like a very smart and polite person here in my opinion, hence the only negative aspect I could forecast realted to your moving is Argentina losing a good citizen.

[Sebastián Pratesi]

Lots of good points by MoraWintersoul above.

Yes, I agree. Thanks a lot, Mora, for taking the time to read. I hope you're having a fine time living in Norway.
(And yes; fortunately, I have an Italian citizenship/passport through my great-grandparent, and my grandma is Greek, so that might help. Thanks for the tip!)

And Indiscipline: thanks for the kind words. But, seeing how the G20 summit organization has been a disaster in some aspects, I hope you are right. I wouldn't blame anyone who is suspicious or wary about meeting us argentinians.

[cramx3]

@Seb: from someone who's had many working experiences (involving short to long sojourns) in a lot of so-called First World countries, I'm happy to tell you that (in my experience) where you're from means exactly sweet fock all.  Key is who you are and the way you can respect and appreciate cultural differences. You've always read like a very smart and polite person here in my opinion, hence the only negative aspect I could forecast realted to your moving is Argentina losing a good citizen.

From my experience living outside NYC, I'd say this part of the US has a lot of real assholes and jerks and while there are plenty of racists as well, at the end of the day, the majority of people are going to treat you the way you treat them.  Even where the assholes are in high population, as long as you are respectful and hard working, you will earn the respect of most if not all people you encounter here in the US.  Where you come from has little meaning.  Sure some places might have a bad reputation, but it's up to you to show you are not representative of that.  Some might hold it against you initially, but if you prove yourself you will overcome that.  You seem like an intelligent person from your postings here and your desire to live a better life is essentially the "American Dream" so as long as you are true to that, you shouldn't have any issue working towards a successful and happy life here.  However, getting actual citizenship can be a long and hard path, I can't speak to that, but nothing you mentioned should impact that, just be a good contributing member to society and you can go far.

[Sebastián Pratesi]

From my experience living outside NYC, I'd say this part of the US has a lot of real assholes and jerks and while there are plenty of racists as well, at the end of the day, the majority of people are going to treat you the way you treat them.  Even where the assholes are in high population, as long as you are respectful and hard working, you will earn the respect of most if not all people you encounter here in the US.  Where you come from has little meaning.  Sure some places might have a bad reputation, but it's up to you to show you are not representative of that.  Some might hold it against you initially, but if you prove yourself you will overcome that.  You seem like an intelligent person from your postings here and your desire to live a better life is essentially the "American Dream" so as long as you are true to that, you shouldn't have any issue working towards a successful and happy life here.  However, getting actual citizenship can be a long and hard path, I can't speak to that, but nothing you mentioned should impact that, just be a good contributing member to society and you can go far.

I see what you did there.

Thanks for the feedback! Where exactly did/do you live outside NYC?

[cramx3]

I live in central New Jersey along the coast, about 45 minute drive south of NYC.