"Must-have" or huge classic albums that you "don't get"?

[Cool Chris]

We going into controversial IM opinions? ok

Somewhere in Time is one of their worst albums. SSoaSS isn't much better, but has the awesome The Clairvoyant and the solid Infinite Dreams to bolster its status in the Cool Chris rankings.

[MirrorMask]

We going into controversial IM opinions? ok


The Edge Of Darkness is their worst song

One of the best songs of The X Factor FFS, if Bruce would have sung it people would be excited about the song.

[IDontNotDoThings]

We going into controversial IM opinions? ok


The Edge Of Darkness is their worst song

One of the best songs of The X Factor FFS, if Bruce would have sung it people would be excited about the song.

Blaze is an amazing vocalist fyi; he's not my issue with the song. My issue is that it's a disjointed mess that can't keep a consistent tone. The only part of the song I find kinda cool is the riff near the middle, but even that's eerily similar to HTBN's main riff so...

TXF is a fine album, but it does have a lot of weak points imo, & TEOD just kinda highlights most of my issues with the album in one song.

Let's just say the whole of TXF as a whole is worth a lot more than the sum of its parts. 




Edit: also sorry for steering this thread so far off topic

[Stadler]

All good songs, but Maiden is a step above.   I love Priest (first concert ever) and I have a new appreciation for them now, but I even sort of soured on them for a while, because they are just so... cartoony.  I never really got into the "Metal God" thing.   Maiden had a gravity to them that I never felt with Priest.   There are no Maiden songs like "Hot Rockin'", you know?

Cartoony? Wait, you've seen Iron Maiden's album covers, right?  Those literally look like cartoon drawings.

Not what I mean.    It's a metal album cover, duh.   

What I mean is the band itself.   Putting the detailed solo credits on the album sleeve.  Priest did it. Dave Murray said "shut the fuck up, let's tour".   Halford talks about being a "METAL GOD!" and driving a bike at 3 mph out on stage.   Dickinson said "shut the fuck up, where's the 767 I'm flying?"  Priest puts out remasters and the live tracks - all of which were taken from about three shows, well-bootlegged and catalogued - and says "recorded live on one of our many world tours across the world!"   Maiden puts out warts and all live tracks from a specific show with a specific date.    Priest does interviews and it's very corporate, very PR "well, this is our most mettle album to date, and we're mettle, and so we wrote a real mettle album."    Um, Rob, what about that session you did with those pop songsmiths?  "What?  No, that was, uh, well, uh, we're mettle and uh, we just wrote a mettle album.  It's called Jugulator."   Rob, what's a 'jugulator'?   "What?  Uh, it's a mettle way of uh, jugulating."   Iron Maiden does interviews and it's "Well, Bruce is a cunt, but that fucker can sing, amiright?  We just went in and did what we do."   Bruce?   "Shut the fuck up and start the tour."   Priest:  "We're going to do our Epitaph tour and we're going to DIG DEEP!  We're going to play one song from every album ever. So buckle up, because we're gonna do "Victim of Changes", which we haven't done for over 2 years now."    Maiden:  "Read the fuckin' internet, bloke.  We're doing our new album start to finish.  71:53 minutes of it."

I mean, some of this is for comedic purposes - Maiden has taken it's share of flack for setlist choices, I'm aware of that - but there just seems to be a realness to the way Steve runs the band (with Rod).  Warts and all, east London, take it or leave it.   For Priest, there was a period there where it just seemed like everything was handled in a very slick way through management (it was a woman; I can't remember her name.  Judith Anthony or something like that.)  I don't know; just a vibe I had.  I don't expect anyone to agree, it's just how I view them.   Kind of the difference between "Deep Purple" and "Rainbow", or "Whitesnake pre-US Slide It In" and "Whitesnake post-US Slide It In". 

[pg1067]

Battling Maiden v. Priest is like pitting my kids against each other.

That being said, Maiden never did anything as bad as Turbo.

Also, the "classic" Priest albums feature some pretty lame tracks:

"You Don't Have to Be Old to Be Wise"
"Hot Rockin'"
"You Say Yes"
"Heavy Duty"
"Heavy Metal"
"Love You to Death"
"Metal Meltdown"

And that only starts with British Steel.

Maiden's only real stinkers in the DiAnno and first Dickinson eras are "Back in the Village," "The Clairvoyant" and "Bring Your Daughter to the Slaughter."

For Priest, there was a period there where it just seemed like everything was handled in a very slick way through management (it was a woman; I can't remember her name.  Judith Anthony or something like that.)  I don't know; just a vibe I had. 

Jayne Andrews, who has co-managed the band with Bill Curbishley since at least the 1980s.  Part of the problem was that, for a long time, Rob had separate management than the rest of the band.

[Stadler]

Battling Maiden v. Priest is like pitting my kids against each other.

That being said, Maiden never did anything as bad as Turbo.

Also, the "classic" Priest albums feature some pretty lame tracks:

"You Don't Have to Be Old to Be Wise"
"Hot Rockin'"
"You Say Yes"
"Heavy Duty"
"Heavy Metal"
"Love You to Death"
"Metal Meltdown"

And that only starts with British Steel.

Maiden's only real stinkers in the DiAnno and first Dickinson eras are "Back in the Village," "The Clairvoyant" and "Bring Your Daughter to the Slaughter."

HAHA, thanks for the support, sincerely, but BITV is a top ten Maiden song for me, and The Clairvoyant is well up there.   You can have BYD though. 

For Priest, there was a period there where it just seemed like everything was handled in a very slick way through management (it was a woman; I can't remember her name.  Judith Anthony or something like that.)  I don't know; just a vibe I had. 

Jayne Andrews, who has co-managed the band with Bill Curbishley since at least the 1980s.  Part of the problem was that, for a long time, Rob had separate management than the rest of the band.

YES! That's it.  (I knew a girl in college with the other name; I got confused).

Oh, and I fully understand that Jugulator is a Tim "Ripper" Owens album, but that didn't fit the comedy (though I will note that Steve Harris did NOT sign anyone named 'Prodigal Son' or 'Drifter' to sing for the band.)

[The Walrus]

Hey, I still want an answer re: why BYD is so maligned.

[bosk1]

It's kind of like arguing on the Internet that not putting shopping carts in the corral is somehow morally indefensible.  It's a pretty lame argument with no foundation, but it's somewhat prevalent among keyboard warriors.

[The Walrus]

It's kind of like arguing on the Internet that not putting shopping carts in the corral is somehow morally indefensible.  It's a pretty lame argument with no foundation, but it's somewhat prevalent among keyboard warriors.

If I wasn't sick right now... oooooooh. Shaking my fist at you!!

[bosk1]

I thought I was siding with you.  It's a decent song. 

[TAC]

(though I will note that Steve Harris did NOT sign anyone named 'Prodigal Son' or 'Drifter' to sing for the band.)

 

Blaze "Drifter" Bayley!  

[Stadler]

It's okay; it's a tough song to take out of context, though.   It's a soundtrack song, inspired by the Nightmare on Elm Street franchise, and based - loosely - on the epic poem "To My Coy Mistress".  The latter is often cited as a key example of a "carpe diem" poem (we have but a short life, and if we want to live it we need to live it NOW!) but there's a dark humor in it as well, which I think we all can agree is shared by Mr. Dickinson. 

[TAC]

Musically BYDTTS is awesome, especially live. But I'm sorry. There's something innately f'n stupid about singing "Bring your daughter to the slaughter".

[Stadler]

It is a stupid alliteration, but the lyrics are very much Maiden-esque.  Not that far, really, from Number of the Beast if you think about it.

It's (according to Dickinson) about the fears surrounding becoming a woman and losing your virginity.  The protagonist in the song is coming after her in a nightmare.    After all, who better to write about that than a 31-year-old male British heavy metal singer?   

[TAC]

Well, that's just it. Those lyrics are not Maiden-esque, unless you can somehow link it to Charlotte The Harlot, or as you say, 22AA. Same for the lyrics in Hooks In You. Those two sets of lyrics completely help to undermine Maiden's credibility on No Prayer.

[Stadler]

Well, that's just it. Those lyrics are not Maiden-esque, unless you can somehow link it to Charlotte The Harlot, or as you say, 22AA. Same for the lyrics in Hooks In You. Those two sets of lyrics completely help to undermine Maiden's credibility on No Prayer.

I'm totally with you on Hooks In You (though, oddly I like that song).   When I said "Number..." meant the song (being about a nightmare).   

I'm not going too much further, though, because I don't want to be seen as defending No Prayer.  I don't really like that album all that much, other than Tailgunner, Holy Smoke, and the two b-sides, All In Your Mind and Kill Me Ce Soir. 

[The Walrus]

Man, respectfully, I love Maiden, but the lyrics to BYD are no sillier than screaming bloody murder about the devil or the whorehouse on Acacia Avenue. Or a literal deathtrap from which the band derives its name, or any of the numerous literary sources from which Maiden derives their lyrics. Rime of the Ancient Mariner? Murders in the Rue Morgue? I dunno, I guess I'm weird, BYD is awesome. Hell, Holy Smoke is sillier than that, and I love Holy Smoke (smells good!).

[Dream Team]

Not to keep the thread derailed, but BYD is easily their worst song and helped destroy the credibility they had built up through Seventh Son.

[TAC]

I find it funny that we are devoting one (of six) entire page discussing No Prayer For The Dying in the "Must -have" or huge classic albums thread.

[IDontNotDoThings]

Battling Maiden v. Priest is like pitting my kids against each other.

That being said, Maiden never did anything as bad as Turbo.

Also, the "classic" Priest albums feature some pretty lame tracks:

"You Don't Have to Be Old to Be Wise"
"Hot Rockin'"
"You Say Yes"
"Heavy Duty"
"Heavy Metal"
"Love You to Death"
"Metal Meltdown"

And that only starts with British Steel.

Maiden's only real stinkers in the DiAnno and first Dickinson eras are "Back in the Village," "The Clairvoyant" and "Bring Your Daughter to the Slaughter."

Die With Your Boots On?
Quest For Fire?
Long Distance Runner?
Hooks In You?
Chains Of Misery?
The Apparition?
Weekend Warrior?

[Zook]

BYD was never meant to be a Maiden song, but Steve insisted on rerecording it for No Prayer. As someone said, it was written by Bruce for Nightmare 5.

Also, pretty sure Tim got his nickname after or during his audition for the band.

[bosk1]

Die With Your Boots On?
Quest For Fire?
Long Distance Runner?

[pg1067]

Hey, I still want an answer re: why BYD is so maligned.

Because...opinions.  But, this:

There's something innately f'n stupid about singing "Bring your daughter to the slaughter".

It's kind of like arguing on the Internet that not putting shopping carts in the corral is somehow morally indefensible.  It's a pretty lame argument with no foundation, but it's somewhat prevalent among keyboard warriors.

 

Battling Maiden v. Priest is like pitting my kids against each other.

That being said, Maiden never did anything as bad as Turbo.

Also, the "classic" Priest albums feature some pretty lame tracks:

"You Don't Have to Be Old to Be Wise"
"Hot Rockin'"
"You Say Yes"
"Heavy Duty"
"Heavy Metal"
"Love You to Death"
"Metal Meltdown"

And that only starts with British Steel.

Maiden's only real stinkers in the DiAnno and first Dickinson eras are "Back in the Village," "The Clairvoyant" and "Bring Your Daughter to the Slaughter."

Die With Your Boots On?
Quest For Fire?
Long Distance Runner?
Hooks In You?
Chains Of Misery?
The Apparition?
Weekend Warrior?

I'll give you the last four songs mentioned (Most of NPftD and FotD are pretty forgettable), but the first three are great.  Not that I typically care what a band thinks are its own best songs, but Boots was good enough to earn a spot on Live After Death.  Side 1 of PoM is a perfect album side.  I know QfF is commonly maligned, but there's not a song on PoM that I don't love, and I think QfF is better than Still Life.  Likewise, TLotLDR might be the second least great song on an album of great material (the only clunker MOMENT on SiT is the "whoa whoa" section on "Heaven Can Wait").

[KevShmev]

All good songs, but Maiden is a step above.   I love Priest (first concert ever) and I have a new appreciation for them now, but I even sort of soured on them for a while, because they are just so... cartoony.  I never really got into the "Metal God" thing.   Maiden had a gravity to them that I never felt with Priest.   There are no Maiden songs like "Hot Rockin'", you know?

Cartoony? Wait, you've seen Iron Maiden's album covers, right?  Those literally look like cartoon drawings.

Not what I mean.    It's a metal album cover, duh.   

What I mean is the band itself.   Putting the detailed solo credits on the album sleeve.  Priest did it. Dave Murray said "shut the fuck up, let's tour".   Halford talks about being a "METAL GOD!" and driving a bike at 3 mph out on stage.   Dickinson said "shut the fuck up, where's the 767 I'm flying?"  Priest puts out remasters and the live tracks - all of which were taken from about three shows, well-bootlegged and catalogued - and says "recorded live on one of our many world tours across the world!"   Maiden puts out warts and all live tracks from a specific show with a specific date.    Priest does interviews and it's very corporate, very PR "well, this is our most mettle album to date, and we're mettle, and so we wrote a real mettle album."    Um, Rob, what about that session you did with those pop songsmiths?  "What?  No, that was, uh, well, uh, we're mettle and uh, we just wrote a mettle album.  It's called Jugulator."   Rob, what's a 'jugulator'?   "What?  Uh, it's a mettle way of uh, jugulating."   Iron Maiden does interviews and it's "Well, Bruce is a cunt, but that fucker can sing, amiright?  We just went in and did what we do."   Bruce?   "Shut the fuck up and start the tour."   Priest:  "We're going to do our Epitaph tour and we're going to DIG DEEP!  We're going to play one song from every album ever. So buckle up, because we're gonna do "Victim of Changes", which we haven't done for over 2 years now."    Maiden:  "Read the fuckin' internet, bloke.  We're doing our new album start to finish.  71:53 minutes of it."

I mean, some of this is for comedic purposes - Maiden has taken it's share of flack for setlist choices, I'm aware of that - but there just seems to be a realness to the way Steve runs the band (with Rod).  Warts and all, east London, take it or leave it.   For Priest, there was a period there where it just seemed like everything was handled in a very slick way through management (it was a woman; I can't remember her name.  Judith Anthony or something like that.)  I don't know; just a vibe I had.  I don't expect anyone to agree, it's just how I view them.   Kind of the difference between "Deep Purple" and "Rainbow", or "Whitesnake pre-US Slide It In" and "Whitesnake post-US Slide It In".

You're such a lawyer.

[Stadler]

I think QfF is better than Still Life. 

When I read this the first time it sounded like you were saying that Quest For Fire is better than Still Life!  Hahah... oh, wait.  What? 

[Stadler]

All good songs, but Maiden is a step above.   I love Priest (first concert ever) and I have a new appreciation for them now, but I even sort of soured on them for a while, because they are just so... cartoony.  I never really got into the "Metal God" thing.   Maiden had a gravity to them that I never felt with Priest.   There are no Maiden songs like "Hot Rockin'", you know?

Cartoony? Wait, you've seen Iron Maiden's album covers, right?  Those literally look like cartoon drawings.

Not what I mean.    It's a metal album cover, duh.   

What I mean is the band itself.   Putting the detailed solo credits on the album sleeve.  Priest did it. Dave Murray said "shut the fuck up, let's tour".   Halford talks about being a "METAL GOD!" and driving a bike at 3 mph out on stage.   Dickinson said "shut the fuck up, where's the 767 I'm flying?"  Priest puts out remasters and the live tracks - all of which were taken from about three shows, well-bootlegged and catalogued - and says "recorded live on one of our many world tours across the world!"   Maiden puts out warts and all live tracks from a specific show with a specific date.    Priest does interviews and it's very corporate, very PR "well, this is our most mettle album to date, and we're mettle, and so we wrote a real mettle album."    Um, Rob, what about that session you did with those pop songsmiths?  "What?  No, that was, uh, well, uh, we're mettle and uh, we just wrote a mettle album.  It's called Jugulator."   Rob, what's a 'jugulator'?   "What?  Uh, it's a mettle way of uh, jugulating."   Iron Maiden does interviews and it's "Well, Bruce is a cunt, but that fucker can sing, amiright?  We just went in and did what we do."   Bruce?   "Shut the fuck up and start the tour."   Priest:  "We're going to do our Epitaph tour and we're going to DIG DEEP!  We're going to play one song from every album ever. So buckle up, because we're gonna do "Victim of Changes", which we haven't done for over 2 years now."    Maiden:  "Read the fuckin' internet, bloke.  We're doing our new album start to finish.  71:53 minutes of it."

I mean, some of this is for comedic purposes - Maiden has taken it's share of flack for setlist choices, I'm aware of that - but there just seems to be a realness to the way Steve runs the band (with Rod).  Warts and all, east London, take it or leave it.   For Priest, there was a period there where it just seemed like everything was handled in a very slick way through management (it was a woman; I can't remember her name.  Judith Anthony or something like that.)  I don't know; just a vibe I had.  I don't expect anyone to agree, it's just how I view them.   Kind of the difference between "Deep Purple" and "Rainbow", or "Whitesnake pre-US Slide It In" and "Whitesnake post-US Slide It In".

You're such a lawyer.

A tiger can't change it's spots. 

[pg1067]

I think QfF is better than Still Life. 

When I read this the first time it sounded like you were saying that Quest For Fire is better than Still Life!  Hahah... oh, wait.  What? 

Quest for Fire good!!!!

[TAC]

 

[425]

Wow, so many Maiden takes in this thread that I do not at all agree with. Here are some of my responses:

• FotD is their worst album. And it's not particularly close. TFF is their best album.
• BYDTTS is pretty close to being their worst song. It's pointlessly crude lyrically and pretty banal musically. Hooks is at least fun. The other worst songs all come from a particularly miserable three song run on FotD: Chains of Misery, The Apparition, Weekend Warrior
• The Clairvoyant, Die With Your Boots On, Back in the Village and The Loneliness of the Long Distnace Runner are all awesome.
• The 80s era is overemphasized, since the reunion era is the best period of the band. And there is no song in the reunion era that is as pointless as Gangland.
  

And to pitch one on the thread topic: Killers gets a weird amount of love for an album I'd easily call the third-worst in their discography, ahead of only the two early 90s albums. Yes, it has some good songs, but what's so special about Another Life, Innocent Exile and Prodigal Son? Honestly, the fact that half this album is basically outtakes from the debut really shows. It's a fun album, don't get me wrong, but nothing I'd call must-have except for a Maiden die-hard.

[IDontNotDoThings]

Apparently I had more controversial Maiden opinions than I thought 

[MirrorMask]

It's (according to Dickinson) about the fears surrounding becoming a woman and losing your virginity.  The protagonist in the song is coming after her in a nightmare.    After all, who better to write about that than a 31-year-old male British heavy metal singer? 

I remember reading it was actually about the first period, and how horror movies are somehow a metaphor of the first period coming in the night since waking up in blood is not really a great sight. Anyway, not exactly Shakespeare material in both cases 

[The Curious Orange]

OK Computer - Radiohead.

It's not a you needed to be there thing. I WISH I wasn't there.

Why? Can't stand the vocals, orchestration, sound, phoney spleen. I was young, and very educated people I respected vouched for that album's incredible smarts and innovation, but I couldn't - and still can't - help but feeling like the kid who saw the emperor naked.

I totally agree with you. The number of people who told me I should love that album was astounding, yet there's nothing to it whatever so far as I can see.

Sorry about going off-topic in a Maiden thread... 

[Stadler]

Wow, so many Maiden takes in this thread that I do not at all agree with. Here are some of my responses:

• FotD is their worst album. And it's not particularly close. TFF is their best album.
• BYDTTS is pretty close to being their worst song. It's pointlessly crude lyrically and pretty banal musically. Hooks is at least fun. The other worst songs all come from a particularly miserable three song run on FotD: Chains of Misery, The Apparition, Weekend Warrior
• The Clairvoyant, Die With Your Boots On, Back in the Village and The Loneliness of the Long Distnace Runner are all awesome.
• The 80s era is overemphasized, since the reunion era is the best period of the band. And there is no song in the reunion era that is as pointless as Gangland.
  

And to pitch one on the thread topic: Killers gets a weird amount of love for an album I'd easily call the third-worst in their discography, ahead of only the two early 90s albums. Yes, it has some good songs, but what's so special about Another Life, Innocent Exile and Prodigal Son? Honestly, the fact that half this album is basically outtakes from the debut really shows. It's a fun album, don't get me wrong, but nothing I'd call must-have except for a Maiden die-hard.

You were on such a roll until that last paragraph.   Another Life is easily a top ten Maiden song for me.  Dave Murray's guitar just elevates that song to a new place.   I love how the swirling, repeating guitar lines sort of accent the way that these thoughts - of suicide - are swirling in that guy's head, confusing him, keeping him on edge.  I LOVE that song.   And while I can take or leave Innocent Exile, there is literally not one other song in the catalogue like Prodigal Son, and in my view, it provides a nice little break in the middle of that second side, kind of like the interlude in Rime, but broken out into an individual song.    Killers is an amazing record, top to bottom.   I usually put it at number three or four in the catalogue when I rate them.    (Oh, and while most of the material - I think all but Rue and Prodigal - was WRITTEN prior to the recording, none was actually recorded other than Wrathschild, so I wouldn't call them "outtakes", really.   The  material for the first album was just that material that had been played for over a year at that point, and a good portion was recorded along the way.)

[The Walrus]

Prodigal Son is a great song and one of my favorite Maiden tracks period. Nothing else they've written sounds like it. Killers is a phenomenal record.

[bosk1]

Sorry about going off-topic in a Maiden thread...