Queensryche: disappointment, great band with some low points, or something else?

[vtgrad]

Funny... I've been listening to Empire again for the past two weeks and have realized what an incredible album it still is; Another Rainy Night gets me every time.  Just an awesome, awesome song.

I'd have to say "something else" as well, or perhaps a "footnote" as ytserush said.  Mindcrime and Empire sucked me in and I actually like Promised Land a lot too (sooo dark and moody), but after PL they fell completely off the radar for me.

But the musical quality of Mindcrime, Empire, and Promised Land put them in a place of great enjoyment when the mood hits me right.  I'd honestly lump them in with Winger... an awesome three album run that satisfies me when the mood hits.  But I have to be in the mood or wake up with a rhythm in my head; I can't just play the music and be put in the mood by listening to the music itself (like I can with DT or BTBAM or even Al Green or Marvin Gaye).  Does that make sense?

[bl5150]

Calling Tim - where are you?

[King Postwhore]

TELAMUNDO FOR DTF!!! 


TIM'S HEAD WITH EXPLOOOOOOODEEEEE!!!!!!

[TAC]

Oh boy. At first I was like, what are you guys talking about...but then.....I saw IT!

Yeah, I'd lump the two together as well.

[ytserush]

If you held a gun to my head, I'd probably say Promised Land was the best album they've ever done.

People will say the craziest things with a gun pointed at them.

Probably don't even need the gun.

[King Postwhore]

If you held a gun to my head, I'd probably say Promised Land was the best album they've ever done.

People will say the craziest things with a gun pointed at them.

Probably don't even need the gun.

Tim does it all the time and no one is even looking at him.

[Anxiety35]

The first 4 albums are great. After that, there's a significant drop off in quality of their work.

[CrimsonSunrise]

"something else" works best for me too.  Think I'm with the camp who LOVES  EP- Empire, after that?  Meh....

[Setlist Scotty]

I voted something else as well, because I think my real choice falls in between the first two options. I used to consider them my third favorite band behind DT and Rush, but with all the stuff they've cranked out ranging from meh to flat out horrid definitely lowered my opinion of them. That's not to say that there aren't some worthwhile tracks on each of their albums (save for DtC - I only really like At the Edge), but from HitNF through DtC, they were definitely hitting well below .500 in my opinion. With TLT aboard, the s/t album was great, and from what I recalled about CH, I liked it, though I never gave it many spins - will have to remedy that soon in preparation for their next album.

[Kwyjibo]

Considering all the drama, the musical decline (and somewhat ressurection), the tate-tisms, the wrong decisions made almost every time etc, they are a great disappointment. They started out so well and promising and then completely blew it.

But strictly musical speaking, I have to vote for great band with some definite low points. There are the classic records that are sooo good and there are some really good songs on almost all of the other records. And the TLT fronted ones are very good too. So, again, if I blank out the drama, there's enough great music to enjoy.

Timeless classics:
Empire
Mindcrime
Rage For Oder

Great records:
Warning
Condition Human

Good ones:
Queensryche (TLT)
Promised Land
Q2K
Queensryche EP

Tolerable:
HITNF
American Soldier

Disappointments:
Mindcrime 2
Tribe

Never listened to:
D2C
Take Cover

[Ruba]

Well. At first I'll say I have very little experience of post CDG-material. I've heard Tribe, OM II, Dedicated to Chaos and Condition Hüman once. So I'm probably not at rights to comment very much on it. DTC was absolute crap and I have no wish to revisit it. All the rest left me quite lukewarm, although I'm willing to give Todd LaTorre era more chances.

But. The Chris DeGarmo era is one of the best series of albums by any band has ever released. Empire has a bit too much commercial hard rock sound on it for my tastes and Hear in the Now Frontier is wildly inconsistent. But EP, The Warning, Rage for Order, Operation: Mindcrime, Promised Land... all amazing. I do think they lost something very important after Chris left.

[Cruithne]

The question is:  forgetting about any of the drama or the disappointments through the years, looking at their catalog as a whole, and considering STRICTLY IN TERMS OF GIVING YOU MUSIC THAT YOU ENJOY, how would you rate this band?

As a whole... oof... it's just hard to think of the Tateryche years as really being the same band as the one either side, given how marginalised the other three guys were after Tribe until they booted Tate, to the point of being just about a Tate solo project in all but name for several years.

Had QR wound up after Empire they would, hands down, be my favourite band of all time.
Had QR followed up Empire with Promised Land, HiTNF and Tribe then called it a day they would still be my favourite band of all time, just edging out Rush.

However, in between HiTNF and Tribe we get Q2k (two great songs, otherwise shite), then after Tribe we get Mindcrime II (average with a few good songs and one really good one in Hostage), American Soldier (boring) and Dedicated To Chaos (lolful).

Then with Tate gone we get two really solid efforts with LaTorre that are missing their early songwriting magic touch and someone to sort out some of the clumsy LaTorre lines he writes.

I guess they're a great band who suffered a prolonged bad patch.

[jingle.boy]

Something else for sure.  I can't add anything that hasn't already been said.  Great to terrible in a very short span (though as Nick and others correctly point out, there are the odd gems stuffed in the steaming turds from HITNF to D2C).  Based on the last 2 albums - which I enjoy immensely - I'm mostly disappointed with them for squandering their chance to return to some form of glory.

[Dublagent66]

I voted “something else” merely because I’m somewhere between “disappointment” and “great band with some low points”.  Probably closer to “great band…”.  Everything up through PL was magical (and still is).  HITNF was when I started pulling away, reluctantly buying subsequent releases hoping for something better and it never really happened.  Sure, there were some glimmers of light on some of those albums, but overall it just wasn’t working for me.  However, these last two albums with TLT have rekindled my fandom.  Especially CH.  I absolutely love it and the songs are aging very well.  Really looking forward to seeing them open for the Scorpions on Sept 5th.

Overall, considering that I’ll always love those first 6 albums (and the last two), that outweighs the negativity of the sub-par releases in between.  Water under the bridge for me.  It’s unfortunate that all the drama had to unfold the way it did and I was disappointed for a long time, but we still have Queensryche and all the good memories.  So, I will always think of them as a band that has giving me (us) a lot of music to enjoy.  I guess the "something else" might be along the lines of "still one of my favorite bands in spite of it all".

[Stadler]

A  buddy of mine and I were coming back from a concert Saturday (Blackmore's Night; it was EXCELLENT) and we were talking about QR and specifically Tater.   I put on a couple selected tracks from O:M and Empire and man, it was SO good.  We just sat silent in the car listening.

[LCArenas]

I discovered the band when they had just released American Soldier, and it's quite fascinating to compare a young-listener-who-has-just-discovered-the-band's perspective with the one of a veteran fan who grew up with the band's. Queensryche never really struck as a disappointing to me when they had 10+ years of releasing solid album after solid album. Sure, nothing came close to that after the turn of the millennium and Dedicated to Chaos was awful (The fun kind of awful, though- I had such a great time watching that album get ripped apart on these forums) but after the two great albums they've released since then I really believe They've had more hits than misses and as bosk said, even their more uninspired albums save for D2C have some great songs in them. So yeah, option two

[Zook]

They have one perfect album in Operation: Mindcrime, and some great songs sprinkled throughout their career. I have EP through Empire, and then the self titled. Empire is mostly good. S/T is good but hard to listen to because of the mastering. They're a disappointment in a way because I know they are capable of greatness, but they aren't a band I actively listen to, so it's not too big a concern.

The Offspring is the disappointment band for me. They lost me 10 years ago.

[ytserush]

I discovered the band when they had just released American Soldier, and it's quite fascinating to compare a young-listener-who-has-just-discovered-the-band's perspective with the one of a veteran fan who grew up with the band's. Queensryche never really struck as a disappointing to me when they had 10+ years of releasing solid album after solid album. Sure, nothing came close to that after the turn of the millennium and Dedicated to Chaos was awful (The fun kind of awful, though- I had such a great time watching that album get ripped apart on these forums) but after the two great albums they've released since then I really believe They've had more hits than misses and as bosk said, even their more uninspired albums save for D2C have some great songs in them. So yeah, option two

For me, as a full album, American Soldier was the best thing they did after Promised Land. They almost won me back as a going concern with that album.

[Samsara]

I discovered the band when they had just released American Soldier, and it's quite fascinating to compare a young-listener-who-has-just-discovered-the-band's perspective with the one of a veteran fan who grew up with the band's. Queensryche never really struck as a disappointing to me when they had 10+ years of releasing solid album after solid album. Sure, nothing came close to that after the turn of the millennium and Dedicated to Chaos was awful (The fun kind of awful, though- I had such a great time watching that album get ripped apart on these forums) but after the two great albums they've released since then I really believe They've had more hits than misses and as bosk said, even their more uninspired albums save for D2C have some great songs in them. So yeah, option two

For me, as a full album, American Soldier was the best thing they did after Promised Land. They almost won me back as a going concern with that album.

I covered American Soldier extensively in the Queensryche Discography thread. But to me, that record was probably my favorite non-original lineup album until the self-titled one in 2013. The problem with American Soldier was that it ran out of steam after Man Down!, and that Tate didn't really convey the entirety of the theme, opting to portray mostly negative emotions of serving. And it sucked that the band didn't actually write it (they did perform all of it, however, and the guitar solos were written by Wilton). Jason Slater and Kelly Gray did most of the writing, and I think they got as close to the classic QR sound as they could with the band at that point, and where Tate was.

[TAC]

And it sucked that the band didn't actually write it (they did perform all of it, however, and the guitar solos were written by Wilton). 

Sam, I was under the impression that wasn't the case. I must've misread someone's post along the way.


I haven't listened to American Soldier in ages, but I remember liking it. It felt focused.

[Samsara]

And it sucked that the band didn't actually write it (they did perform all of it, however, and the guitar solos were written by Wilton). 

Sam, I was under the impression that wasn't the case. I must've misread someone's post along the way.


I haven't listened to American Soldier in ages, but I remember liking it. It felt focused.

T,

Yeah, they performed all of it except for some rhythm guitar bits that Kelly did on the two leftover Slave to the System tracks that they used (Middle of Hell and Home Again). But all of the band is on every track for sure, and Wilton did all the solos too (and came up with them).

It was Mindcrime II and D2C where they were missing on a lot of it.

[TAC]

Thanks Brian. While I never actually have to urge to listen to American Soldier, I should pull it up. I didn't not enjoy it. I thought it was decent at the time.

[robbob]

As much as I love them, I have to go with something else as well. 

The heart of the band is kinda gone.    And the heart was not DeGarmo, nor was it Tate.    It was DeGarmo, Tate AND WILTON all working in tandem that made it work.    DeGarmo was the melody, Wilton was the "balls and chunk", and Tate was the weird voice of insanity. 

Once they made it big, Wilton and Tate both got sidetracked....and DeGarmo got tired of holding it together.    Then when DeGarmo left, Tate became a dictator with Wilton fading into the background with Rockenfield and Jackson.    By the time those three stood up for themselves, the whole thing was a train wreck.    The upside is that it seemed to bring Wilton/Jackson/Rockenfield together as the new leaders with a new found energy....but you still only had 1/3rd of the original magic "trifecta" that made it all work.

So they went from being one of the single most pioneering bands in metal history....to a joke....and now they are just a really good, but fairly average metal band with some pretty decent songs. 

None of the current members are showing me that they are willing to take any risks to try to recapture the heavyweight crown, but they are not devoid of creativity or decent material.    It's working, and if it ain't broke don't fix it, because that's a million times better than what Tate was doing.

I totally agree with this, great explanation of what made them great in their early years.
Went with something else, but think I should have chosen Disappointment, not only because of the obvious, but also because of how they didn't take advantage of how good Condition Human is. The band has been poorly managed for a long time and still are.

[ytserush]

I discovered the band when they had just released American Soldier, and it's quite fascinating to compare a young-listener-who-has-just-discovered-the-band's perspective with the one of a veteran fan who grew up with the band's. Queensryche never really struck as a disappointing to me when they had 10+ years of releasing solid album after solid album. Sure, nothing came close to that after the turn of the millennium and Dedicated to Chaos was awful (The fun kind of awful, though- I had such a great time watching that album get ripped apart on these forums) but after the two great albums they've released since then I really believe They've had more hits than misses and as bosk said, even their more uninspired albums save for D2C have some great songs in them. So yeah, option two

For me, as a full album, American Soldier was the best thing they did after Promised Land. They almost won me back as a going concern with that album.

I covered American Soldier extensively in the Queensryche Discography thread. But to me, that record was probably my favorite non-original lineup album until the self-titled one in 2013. The problem with American Soldier was that it ran out of steam after Man Down!, and that Tate didn't really convey the entirety of the theme, opting to portray mostly negative emotions of serving. And it sucked that the band didn't actually write it (they did perform all of it, however, and the guitar solos were written by Wilton). Jason Slater and Kelly Gray did most of the writing, and I think they got as close to the classic QR sound as they could with the band at that point, and where Tate was.

They sure missed an opportunity with that album. Could have been a lot better than it became.

[Cool Chris]

I own Warning-HitNF on CD and gave HitNF a listen in the car as it has been ages since I spun it last. I don't have many physical CDs any longer, somewhere between 50-75 I would estimate. And I can honestly say HitNF is by far the worst CD I own. I have no idea why I even have this on my shelf. It isn't to be a completionist. I own less than half of their material.

[Lethean]

I own Warning-HitNF on CD and gave HitNF a listen in the car as it has been ages since I spun it last. I don't have many physical CDs any longer, somewhere between 50-75 I would estimate. And I can honestly say HitNF is by far the worst CD I own. I have no idea why I even have this on my shelf. It isn't to be a completionist. I own less than half of their material.

   I'm sure it's not actually the worst CD that I own, but it's down towards the bottom.  (But I do own more physical cds).  I guess I have a hard time getting rid of something once I have it.  And I do like a few songs on that album, so it's ripped to my pc and I feel I should keep the cd to say I legitimately own the mp3s.  Or something...

[Samsara]

They sure missed an opportunity with that album. Could have been a lot better than it became.

Yeah, they really did. I still dig half of it a lot, but had the vocals been recorded in a studio (instead of Geoff's house), and it had a bit more quality control and input, it could have been a classic. Great theme, timely stuff, but a few missteps really squashed the potential American Soldier had.

[Cool Chris]

I have sold CDs in bunches over the years, either due to needing the funds, changing musical tastes, or trimming down before a big move. At this point I also have a hard time parting with CDs. I don't have many and they are organized well without taking up excess room, and I like the look of them on the shelf. 

[bill1971]

I still count them as one my top five bands Rush, DT, QR, Living Colour and Yes. Rush has #1 locked the rest rotate. QR has some not so great songs and I can't listen to the the band once Geoff was no longer in it but as the expression goes I'm not going to through away the baby with the bath water. Their best work is top among almost any band, obviously in my opinion.

I actually just saw Tate perform Operation Mindcrime(yes..again) and he was immensely entertaining and sounded pretty damn good. The crowd was with him the whole way through.

[Samsara]

I actually just saw Tate perform Operation Mindcrime(yes..again) and he was immensely entertaining and sounded pretty damn good. The crowd was with him the whole way through.

I am seeing him this week. Looking forward to it. From what I've seen on YouTube, its pretty good. He has his up and down moments, but that's with any show. It'll probably be the last time I see Mindcrime in its entirety live unless the original band reunites (doubtful), so I figured why not. The last time I saw he whole thing was two nights in Seattle in 2006. And it was horrendous. Musically it was fine, but the melodrama was off the charts. This looks more bare bones, and it'll let the music do the talking.

A guitarist friend of mine pointed out to me that Tate's band is doing something interesting. I am not a musician, so bare with me if this is common knowledge. Apparently the guitarists in Tate's band are all running their stuff through some computer program that replicates the settings used on the original Operation: Mindcrime (sorry guitarists, I know I butchered that explanation, PLEASE correct me). So basically, they plug in, and as they perform, the sound comes out sounding like Chris and Michael. Tate's band plays all the stuff, but instead of boards and amps, it is all run through that program that replicates the tones of what Chris and Michael did on Mindcrime (albeit downtuned).

[romdrums]

If it's strictly software, they could be using something like this:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BIASStuPlat--positive-grid-bias-studio-platinum-bundle-plug-in

If it's a software/hardware hybrid, it's more than likely this:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BiasHead--positive-grid-bias-head-600-watt-amp-match-amplifier-head

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ProfileRk--kemper-profiler-rack-rackmount-profiling-amp-head

Amp modeling and amp profiling has been a thing for a while, but these products are the current leaders, along with the Line 6 Helix and the Fractal Audio Axe FX.  Most modern metal production involves one or more of these.  TesseracT used the Kemper on Sonder, and I know Periphery has used the Axe FX stuff for a while, though they may be switching back to real amps soon.

[Samsara]

Thanks! Amp modeling, yes, that's what my friend called it. He just never saw Queensryche ever do it before, so he thought it was an interesting approach for Tate. Yes, Fractal Audio, he said that too. Apparently one of the Tate guitarists (the young one from Ireland, I forget his name) has a rig rundown on YouTube where he explains it (if you're curious at all).

[romdrums]

Thanks! Amp modeling, yes, that's what my friend called it. He just never saw Queensryche ever do it before, so he thought it was an interesting approach for Tate. Yes, Fractal Audio, he said that too. Apparently one of the Tate guitarists (the young one from Ireland, I forget his name) has a rig rundown on YouTube where he explains it (if you're curious at all).

The Axe FX is what brought amp modeling to the next level.  Line 6 had brought the idea to market with the POD and AmpFarm, but Fractal really took it to the next level with the Axe FX.  I've messed around with it on a Kemper Profiling Amp.  Some co-workers of mine and I did a quick profile of a Mesa Boogie Mini Rectifier and I couldn't tell the difference between the real one and the profile we created on the Kemper.  It was pretty sweet!  It's all pretty cool stuff once you get into it.  My old bandmates were both really into amp modeling because it was much less expensive than having an amp locker, so they could spend their money on guitars instead. 

[pg1067]

I actually just saw Tate perform Operation Mindcrime(yes..again) and he was immensely entertaining and sounded pretty damn good. The crowd was with him the whole way through.

I am seeing him this week. Looking forward to it. From what I've seen on YouTube, its pretty good. He has his up and down moments, but that's with any show. It'll probably be the last time I see Mindcrime in its entirety live unless the original band reunites (doubtful), so I figured why not. The last time I saw he whole thing was two nights in Seattle in 2006. And it was horrendous. Musically it was fine, but the melodrama was off the charts. This looks more bare bones, and it'll let the music do the talking.

A guitarist friend of mine pointed out to me that Tate's band is doing something interesting. I am not a musician, so bare with me if this is common knowledge. Apparently the guitarists in Tate's band are all running their stuff through some computer program that replicates the settings used on the original Operation: Mindcrime (sorry guitarists, I know I butchered that explanation, PLEASE correct me). So basically, they plug in, and as they perform, the sound comes out sounding like Chris and Michael. Tate's band plays all the stuff, but instead of boards and amps, it is all run through that program that replicates the tones of what Chris and Michael did on Mindcrime (albeit downtuned).

I saw Tate's show last Friday night at the Coach House in San Juan Capistrano, CA.  It's a small venue, and I'd say the capacity is around 1,000 (but I'm probably not good at judging that sort of thing).  There was an opening band called Till Death Do Us Part, which is fronted by Geoff's daughter Emily.  I was a little worried about wasting time on a crappy opening band, but they were decent, and Emily certainly can sing (sounded a bit like a discount Evenescence).  Interestingly, the guitarist and bassist in the band also played with Geoff's band, and the two drummers used the same drum kit.

I was BLOWN AWAY by Geoff's and his band's performance.  On a small stage, with nothing but a backdrop, they executed O:M almost flawlessly.  If they were downtuned, it wasn't by much.  Geoff may have come up short on a couple of notes, but it was very infrequent.  There were places where he changed the melody to avoid really high notes, but I have no problem with that.  Emily played the "Sister Mary" part during "Suite Sister Mary" (which was honestly a little odd if you gave it too much thought), and that sounded great.  The only thing lacking was Chris DeGarmo's backing vocals, but the two guitarists who sang background did a good job.  The encore set of songs from Empire was a bit surprising and also really well done.

My friend who went to the show with me said that he came to the realization over the weekend that he'd rather see Geoff with what is essentially a cover band than see Michael/Eddie/Scott with another signer and guitarist, and I'm inclined to agree.  I don't know how many more of these shows Geoff is doing, but I highly recommend it to anyone who's a fan of the band's early material and O:M in particular.

[bosk1]

Good to hear that Geoff and his band are doing a passable version of this.  But for me personally, I just can't muster up the interest in seeing it.  Part of it is that Mindcrime has just been DONE TO DEATH over the years, and having seen it in person and on video from the Empire tour, I've seen the "definitive" version.  The other part of it is just that I have a VERY difficult time financially supporting anything involving Tate.  I just do.

My friend who went to the show with me said that he came to the realization over the weekend that he'd rather see Geoff with what is essentially a cover band than see Michael/Eddie/Scott with another signer and guitarist, and I'm inclined to agree.

I completely get this sentiment.  But I also completely disagree.  I'm intensely disappointed in what the band has done, and all the opportunity they have squandered.  But that said, the new material they have written post-Tate is outstanding, LaTorre's vocals on both the new and old material are usually stellar, and Lundgren has done an exceptional job of integrating himself into the band and bringing some great guitar chops.  I have only had the opportunity to see this lineup once, but I would unhesitatingly see them again when they are in town.