Author Topic: Why is prog fizzling out again? (Read 4524 times)

King Postwhore · « **Reply #35 on:** June 24, 2018, 06:47:54 AM »

Quote from: ClairvoyantCat on June 23, 2018, 02:43:17 PM

Quote from: rumborak on June 23, 2018, 09:05:49 AM
Quote from: ClairvoyantCat on June 20, 2018, 09:34:37 PM
The frontrunners, including the old guard like DT, Wilson, and Opeth and the newer darlings like Haken, have mostly gone stagnant and are mostly happy enough to just retread old ground until anyone not super attached gets tired of hearing the same thing.

Lolwut. Both Opeth and Wilson have done complete 180s musically, at the danger of alienating their core fans.

Regarding the OP topic, I never felt prog was a particularly successful genre, "successful" in the sense that not a lot of bands actually achieve the level they strive for. There's a lot of prog that's full of virtuosos writing epics, but they can't write an actual song. There's the phrase "prog by numbers" and I think it exists for a reason.

Poet's last major sound change was like 8 years ago and I wouldn't call it a complete 180. They've done the exact same thing since and I'm mostly talking this decade. Wilson has never some anything close to a 180 and has mostly done the same thing his whole career. The last album was a step towards doing something different.

Raven was 70's prog style.
HCE was a mix of electronica and classic writing.
TTB has an 80's influence.

Still Steven Wilson but still different. I disagree.

KevShmev · « **Reply #36 on:** June 24, 2018, 06:49:59 AM »

Quote from: ClairvoyantCat on June 23, 2018, 02:43:17 PM

Wilson has never some anything close to a 180 and has mostly done the same thing his whole career. The last album was a step towards doing something different.

Um, what?

SoundscapeMN · « **Reply #37 on:** June 24, 2018, 09:39:18 AM »

You take the large majority of the Porcupine Tree catalog, his last 3 solo records, and Blackfield, and you played a dozen tracks for someone who never had heard any music from any of them, easily someone would say they came from the same band/artist if not on the same album.

ClairvoyantCat · « **Reply #38 on:** June 24, 2018, 10:25:31 AM »

When you're a super fan who is extremely intimate and familiar with something you like, you perceive small changes to be drastic. I'm probably equally guilty of this with thing that I love. I don't see the claimed drastic 180s as major shifts at all. And while I'm not a huge fan of him I have heard the large majority of it. For example, I don't hear the 80s style that is apparently going on in the new one besides a few distinctive solos from the Talk Talk guy. What I hear are slight variations of polished and generally somber prog. The biggest shift I've noticed as an outsider is a few recent songs that did away with the somberness, which I gave him credit for.

I also don't blame him for not reinventing himself all the time. He does what he does and he does it well. I'm just offering it as a reason why I don't think the genre has been roping in outsiders the way it did in the 2000.

King Postwhore · « **Reply #39 on:** June 24, 2018, 10:27:42 AM »

Most bands or solo artists don't have that 180 turn. It's a rarity.

ClairvoyantCat · « **Reply #40 on:** June 24, 2018, 10:29:52 AM »

Agreed, there are a lot of bands, including in the prog world, that I am still very fond of and interested in but I also have to admit that they're not doing a whole lot of reinvention. Marillion for example.

King Postwhore · « **Reply #41 on:** June 24, 2018, 10:32:31 AM »

I tend to get into music diversity buy buying too much music from too many bands.

gborland · « **Reply #42 on:** June 24, 2018, 02:52:13 PM »

All the new prog bands have shit singers. Too much new prog is painful to listen to because of the crap vocals.

Those bands which have great singers - Opeth, SW, Nightwish, etc. - are doing just fine and are bigger now than ever before.

The Walrus · « **Reply #43 on:** June 24, 2018, 04:43:00 PM »

Quote from: gborland on June 24, 2018, 02:52:13 PM

All the new prog bands have shit singers. Too much new prog is painful to listen to because of the crap vocals.

Those bands which have great singers - Opeth, SW, Nightwish, etc. - are doing just fine and are bigger now than ever before.

I've said it a thousand times before and I'll keep saying it - a great singer can elevate a good band to a 'great' band, and a poor singer can turn a good band into a forgettable band.

King Postwhore · « **Reply #44 on:** June 24, 2018, 05:02:47 PM »

That's all styles of music but there always only a few great singers in certain genres.

KevShmev · « **Reply #45 on:** June 24, 2018, 08:10:25 PM »

Quote from: gborland on June 24, 2018, 02:52:13 PM

All the new prog bands have shit singers. Too much new prog is painful to listen to because of the crap vocals.

Those bands which have great singers - Opeth, SW, Nightwish, etc. - are doing just fine and are bigger now than ever before.

While I agree with your premise about too many newer bands having crap singers, I do not agree about the vocals in Opeth and PT/SW. I would not call neither Akerfeldt nor Wilson a great singer, not by any stretch of the imagination. They both do a good job considering their limitations, regardless.

TAC · « **Reply #46 on:** June 24, 2018, 08:13:41 PM »

Akerfedlt blows and is the single reason that I basically cannot listen to Opeth.

KevShmev · « **Reply #47 on:** June 24, 2018, 08:14:40 PM »

Quote from: TAC on June 24, 2018, 08:13:41 PM

Akerfedlt blows and is the single reason that I basically cannot listen to Opeth.

Yeah, but you are are weird.

TAC · « **Reply #48 on:** June 24, 2018, 08:17:58 PM »

Quote from: KevShmev on June 24, 2018, 08:14:40 PM

Quote from: TAC on June 24, 2018, 08:13:41 PM
Akerfedlt blows and is the single reason that I basically cannot listen to Opeth.

Yeah, but you are are weird.

Using "are" twice in the same sentence is weird.

KevShmev · « **Reply #49 on:** June 24, 2018, 08:20:17 PM »

It was for emphasis.

TAC · « **Reply #50 on:** June 24, 2018, 08:22:29 PM »

rumborak · « **Reply #51 on:** June 24, 2018, 08:27:13 PM »

I personally find it lamentable that so many people seemingly have operatic/soaring vocals as a requirement for prog music, and a lot of prospective bands then follow suit by sticking with a crappy operatic/soaring singer than rather having a good "normal" singer. (Haken, looking at you)
When I look at my favorite prog bands, (Genesis, Rush, Pink Floyd, Spock's Beard, OSI, Wilson etc), they all had "shit" vocals, but it never bothered me in the slightest. The opposite probably actually.

TAC · « **Reply #52 on:** June 24, 2018, 08:29:22 PM »

So while I can't get on board with Genesis, OSI, Wilson....but what I think you're alluding to is that sometimes the uniqueness to the vocals is part of the allure.

rumborak · « **Reply #53 on:** June 24, 2018, 08:32:29 PM »

Yeah, I think those acts rather used their limitations to good effect, as opposed to just dropping soprano lines in regular intervals into the songs. It also *really* helps with the live rendition of it. I assume that Steven Wilson can still sing his vocals without problems 10 years from now.

KevShmev · « **Reply #54 on:** June 24, 2018, 08:33:26 PM »

Yep, a lot of my favorite bands have what many would call normal/"average" vocalists, and that has never bothered me. Rock music ain't American Idol (thank God!!).

TAC · « **Reply #55 on:** June 24, 2018, 08:37:01 PM »

Well, there seems like there are so many bands that sound similar, that sometimes the most identifiable trait of the band unfortunately falls on the vocalist, for better or worse.

Lethean · « **Reply #56 on:** June 24, 2018, 09:10:39 PM »

I don't require soaring vocals, but certainly do enjoy them, if I happen to like that particular singer. To me it just depends on the band's sound. I think Riverside would sound ridiculous with soaring vocals, but Vanden Plas, for example, sounds fantastic.

The Walrus · « **Reply #57 on:** June 24, 2018, 09:14:35 PM »

Quote from: Lethean on June 24, 2018, 09:10:39 PM

I don't require soaring vocals, but certainly do enjoy them, if I happen to like that particular singer. To me it just depends on the band's sound. I think Riverside would sound ridiculous with soaring vocals, but Vanden Plas, for example, sounds fantastic.

Same. Soaring vocals are not at all a requirement, it's all about how the individual serves the music

ClairvoyantCat · « **Reply #58 on:** June 24, 2018, 09:36:17 PM »

Imo it's more of a problem of poor lyrics or even just general disregard for hooks/lyrics that kinda has settled in the genre than a lack of available singing talent. Even a good actor can't sell a bad script.

Indiscipline · « **Reply #59 on:** June 25, 2018, 01:45:14 AM »

I've never found the soaring operatic tenor register to be a requirement for prog singing.

Greg Lake, Ian Anderson, Peter Gabriel, Neal Morse - just to mention some of the greatest prog singers alive - don't need that in order to show amazingly nuanced and accomplished musicianship and storytelling.

Great timbres, dynamics and pathos. I would never call them normal singers.

ChuckSteak · « **Reply #60 on:** June 25, 2018, 02:05:34 AM »

I don't think it is fizzling out at all. Unless all you hear is symphonic prog and prog metal.

Samsara · « **Reply #61 on:** June 25, 2018, 03:11:27 PM »

Quote from: Kattoelox on June 20, 2018, 03:02:08 PM

Oversaturation.

This. Not that having a glut of music to listen to and discover is a bad thing, but there's only so much you can digest and have time to check out, and some bands go by the wayside.

One of the better bands that are djent-prog are The Great Discord. But they probably won't make it, just because there is SO MUCH out there these days. And I am sure the same could be said for a ton of other great bands in the prog-related subgenres.

Cyclopssss · « **Reply #62 on:** June 26, 2018, 02:08:43 AM »

^^^ Thanks, I'll check them out!

RoeDent · « **Reply #63 on:** June 26, 2018, 04:50:59 AM »

Quote from: Indiscipline on June 25, 2018, 01:45:14 AM

Greg Lake ... just to mention some of the greatest prog singers alive -

Umm... Whoopsie... *backs away slowly and awkwardly*

Indiscipline · « **Reply #64 on:** June 26, 2018, 05:29:53 AM »

Oooops, my bad. Or grim reaper's, pick one.

Still focking great anyway?

Skeever · « **Reply #65 on:** June 26, 2018, 06:42:19 AM »

I don't think Peter Gabriel is "average" at all. At least he has a really unique voice.

Wilson, sometimes I'm fine with him, other times I dislike his vocals so much that I almost find myself unable to listen to PT/SW. Weird, I know...

Zantera · « **Reply #66 on:** June 26, 2018, 01:21:47 PM »

It's just too little new ideas happening. What's the last new idea in progressive rock/metal? Djent? Even that's like 10 years old now and got stale pretty fast.
At best the current progressive bands are either doing the same thing they have been doing (Anathema comes to mind) OR they're doing something others have done before (SW comes to mind).

There's obviously no shame sticking to what you enjoy or making music clearly influenced by artists you admire - but I think it's hard for the genre to gain new fans when little new is happening.

King Postwhore · « **Reply #67 on:** June 26, 2018, 01:55:24 PM »

Quote from: Zantera on June 26, 2018, 01:21:47 PM

It's just too little new ideas happening. What's the last new idea in progressive rock/metal? Djent? Even that's like 10 years old now and got stale pretty fast.
At best the current progressive bands are either doing the same thing they have been doing (Anathema comes to mind) OR they're doing something others have done before (SW comes to mind).

There's obviously no shame sticking to what you enjoy or making music clearly influenced by artists you admire - but I think it's hard for the genre to gain new fans when little new is happening.

While I hear what you're saying how many bands in a long career change and add what's in the musical scene at that moment. I've always heard people complain about Rush delving into other styles and not liking it or the opposite, "It still sounds like Rush".

A band should do what they want and it's up to us to follow of not to follow. And to be honest, my taste have changed over the years and I don't follow other bands like I used to.

cramx3 · « **Reply #68 on:** June 26, 2018, 01:57:21 PM »

I really do think it's very difficult to come up with something new in music and have it be interesting to a large amount of people.

Dream Team · « **Reply #69 on:** June 26, 2018, 02:17:17 PM »

Yeah there’s oversaturation, but the disappointing part of that is that listeners get saturated with a lot of shit from the bedroom/iphone “artists” but can’t seem to tell that it’s shit. Otherwise great prog and other types of quality music would be more popular.

News: The staff at DTF wish to remind you all that a firm grasp of the rules of Yahtzee can save your life and the lives of your loved ones. Be safe out there.

Author Topic: Why is prog fizzling out again? (Read 4524 times)