What if MP and Derek both came back?

[Bertielee]

No.

Going from Rudess to Sherinian alone would be too much of a step back. Not to mention that there is no need to bring back a guy they fired 19 years ago who took repeated shots at them on social media last year. 

And it would be regressive, not prog(ressive).

Not to mention Derek only did like 2 Albums with them if you will count ACoS as a full album.

It would make more sense if they will bring Kev Moor

Who recorded like, wait, 2 albums with them...

[TAC]

3

[Bertielee]

3

Oooops!

[Indiscipline]

ꜛ That's not a blunder, but proof n.356 there is no DT without Big James.

[Bertielee]

ꜛ That's not a blunder, but proof n.356 there is no DT without Big James.

Thank you!

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

3

With this in mind, I find it curious that some people still cry over Kevin Moore's departure, given he was only a part of 3 albums out of the 13 albums that DT has put out. True, two of those three albums are considered as "classics", but so is Scenes from a Memory and even Six Degrees (maybe?); so there is no real guarantee that DT would constantly put out "masterpieces" with KM on board. True, he's an incredible songwriter, but it was evident from the Awake era that he was not in line with what DT was going. Just an observation, which led me to another thought. It's almost uncanny that the next DT album is going to be DT's fourth without Mike Portnoy. Time flies, eh?

[bosk1]

3

With this in mind, I find it curious that some people still cry over Kevin Moore's departure, given he was only a part of 3 albums out of the 13 albums that DT has put out.

I mostly agree.  But that said, I do think it is appropriate to acknowledge that what is different is that Kevin was part of creating and forming DT's sound and musical identity as a band. 

[Dublagent66]

What if MP and Derek both came back?

Nah, I like Sons of Apollo just the way they are. 

[TH1RT3EN]

3

METROPOLIS PART 3 CONFIRMED

[PetFish]

3

METROPOLIS PART 3 CONFIRMED

Popular opinion is that this would be terrible, but I actually wouldn't mind it.

Edward got away with it once then again through reincarnation.  So that's TWICE the bad guy got away and people want the good guy to win so a Part 3 that ends Edward forever would be interesting and satisfying.

It wouldn't even have to be an entire album, just a single song, long or short... maybe even a ballad where original Victoria comes to reincarnated Edward in a dream or haunts him until he confesses to the murders (at least the one he just did) and finally gets his just rewards.

Or, instead of being vengeful, Victoria takes the high road and tries to understand his pain and forgive him and then that somehow does the job as well, but in a "nice" way. 

However, considering he killed 2+1 people in cold blood, I'd rather he just die and go to hell.

[SwedishGoose]

What if MP and Derek both came back?

Nah, I like Sons of Apollo just the way they are. 

I like the 3 first albums with MM much more than the last 3 with MP.
I also think MP has done a lot of good albums after the split but Psycotic Symphony is not one of them.
MP needs good songwriters like Neal Morse to work with.


I don't want MP back unless MM quits and all of DT wants him back. DS is a big no from me.

[rumborak]

DS is one of those people, when he was still in that long stretch of obscurity, people held him in really high regard. With the SOA debacle I think he turned a lot of opinions against him.

[Cool Chris]

DS is one of those people, when he was still in that long stretch of obscurity, people held him in really high regard.

Not to argue, you are far more knowledgeable about music than I am, but they did, really? I assume you mean a very, very small segment of prog-metal fans who were in to whatever he was doing with Planet X(?)

[Dublagent66]

What if MP and Derek both came back?

Nah, I like Sons of Apollo just the way they are. 

I like the 3 first albums with MM much more than the last 3 with MP.
I also think MP has done a lot of good albums after the split but Psycotic Symphony is not one of them.
MP needs good songwriters like Neal Morse to work with.


I don't want MP back unless MM quits and all of DT wants him back. DS is a big no from me.

Um...did my post not register on your joke meter?   

[rumborak]

DS is one of those people, when he was still in that long stretch of obscurity, people held him in really high regard.

Not to argue, you are far more knowledgeable about music than I am, but they did, really? I assume you mean a very, very small segment of prog-metal fans who were in to whatever he was doing with Planet X(?)

The worst I remember hearing about DS was "he just wasn't the right fit for DT", and over time FII has slowly crept up in people's rankings from what I could tell on DTF. Combine that with Planet X and Black Country Communion, and I would definitely say that DS was pretty well-regarded, at least here.

[TAC]

Not sure how well regarded he was, but I think he was definitely well respected, both for his grace he continued to show DT after they canned him, and for seemingly turning himself from a shlock rock side man to a progressive musician. I think people appreciated that.

[Anxiety35]

I really like Derek's playing. Love that lead tone on the Korg. I think DT pushed Derek to become the musician he is now. Take a listen to his post-DT work and you'll see what I mean. I've always thought that Jordan was a better fit for DT, even when they had him fill in for a show after Kevin Moore left. It just wasn't the right time. Derek-era DT is good stuff.

[Peter Mc]

I've always just seen Derek as the stop gap between Kevin Moore and the guy they really wanted at that point, Jordan Rudess.  Derek does have a cool lead sound but that's about it for me, not a fan of his writing, even on the DT stuff I found his playing uninteresting apart from the solo in Trial Of Tears and the intro to Lines In The Sand.  Sometimes I found it actually detracted from the song as it didn't fit like in Peruvian Skies when he is playing over the main riff and I think it sounds better before the keyboards join in.  I did buy the first Planet X album after he left DT but just found it to be tuneless noodling, just my opinion of course.

I will say though that the opening track on the SOA album, God Of The Sun, does have some really nice playing and good melodies and that was a solo composition by him I think so I will give him props for that.  I quite enjoyed the album on the whole and feel that they do have some promise assuming they make it to album 2, 3 etc.

[pcs90]

I've always just seen Derek as the stop gap between Kevin Moore and the guy they really wanted at that point, Jordan Rudess.  Derek does have a cool lead sound but that's about it for me, not a fan of his writing, even on the DT stuff I found his playing uninteresting apart from the solo in Trial Of Tears and the intro to Lines In The Sand.  Sometimes I found it actually detracted from the song as it didn't fit like in Peruvian Skies when he is playing over the main riff and I think it sounds better before the keyboards join in.  I did buy the first Planet X album after he left DT but just found it to be tuneless noodling, just my opinion of course.

While I agree to an extent, Some of Derek's solo albums have a lot of great stuff. Maybe check out Oceana...the very first Planet X album, as in the one actually called Planet X, has 1 or 2 cool tracks on it, but the rest I can't even remember to be honest. I do like Day in the Sun though and Derek has used melodies from that song during his solo spots for years.
The thing is, a lot of his solo albums are more like guitar albums. The guitar playing is usually more memorable than anything Derek does, as he is in a largely supportive role with the occasional solo here and there. Some of the albums are very diverse as they include a variety of guitarists and styles, so there's usually something for everyone, but I could probably compile all the best stuff into one double album and never miss the rest.

[Madman Shepherd]

It's funny because I absolutely love FII but always felt like Derek wasn't prog enough for DT.  I got into DT through their more metal elements and my appreciation for the proggier stuff came later.  On that same token, I sometimes feel Jordan is too prog but thankfully Petrucci does a good job of holding him back and the end result turns out awesome.  Jordan's solo stuff just doesn't hit me.  Not only have I not heard anything that strikes me but the recording quality always seems sort of lacking. 

Derek's solo/Planet X stuff is the opposite.  The songs have the perfect blend of prog/metal and just plain sound great. 

A member on here just sold me some of that stuff and it was a great time to get reintroduced to Derek's music now that his jerkishness in SOA has stopped and worn off.  Considering one of the best songs on Psychotic Symphony was solely written by Derek shows he's got a lot to offer.  Sadly that album has some big misses too so he's not infallible. 

[Dublagent66]

I've always just seen Derek as the stop gap between Kevin Moore and the guy they really wanted at that point, Jordan Rudess.

This.  DS was never going to be a "fit" for DT.  At least not in the long term.  However, I did enjoy his playing and still do.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

3

With this in mind, I find it curious that some people still cry over Kevin Moore's departure, given he was only a part of 3 albums out of the 13 albums that DT has put out.

I mostly agree.  But that said, I do think it is appropriate to acknowledge that what is different is that Kevin was part of creating and forming DT's sound and musical identity as a band.

True, but either way I still think people kind of worship him in an unhealthy way. I'm a big fan of what he brought to DT, but it's kinda funny how there are still people who refuse to acknowledge they have had other keyboard players for the past 25 years 

[rumborak]

I've always just seen Derek as the stop gap between Kevin Moore and the guy they really wanted at that point, Jordan Rudess.

This.  DS was never going to be a "fit" for DT.  At least not in the long term.  However, I did enjoy his playing and still do.

I don't know. You can say the same thing about KM, that he would never have been a fit in the long term. But, they produced several classics with him in the band, so maybe "being a good fit" isn't a good predictor of what works in a band and what doesn't. I actually think there's a danger of being "too little friction", where everybody is on the same wavelength and there's no cross-challenging anymore.

[bosk1]

How was KM not a good fit in the long term?  I think everybody in the band felt that he was a good fit.  He just decided he did not want to be a full-time musician.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Basically all of Kevin's post DT stuff is miles from DT's style.

That's not to say that the two styles couldn't work together to make interesting stuff, but I don't think it's unreasonable for people to think that the direction Kevin was going musically really didn't fit with the way DT was going.

[bosk1]

That isn't really relevant at all to what KM played in DT.  Have you heard Jordan's stuff outside of DT?  I think it is safe to say that that is also "miles from DT's style."  Does that mean Jordan isn't a good fit?  It is what he plays in the band that matters. 

[goo-goo]

How was KM not a good fit in the long term?  I think everybody in the band felt that he was a good fit.  He just decided he did not want to be a full-time musician.

I think KM would have been a great producer in the DT camp if he had stayed. Although not sure if he would have survived the clashing with MP in the longer run if he was involved in producing the album. I would like to believe he would have pushed the restraint in some DT songs.

[Anxiety35]

The thing is, a lot of his solo albums are more like guitar albums. The guitar playing is usually more memorable than anything Derek does, as he is in a largely supportive role with the occasional solo here and there. Some of the albums are very diverse as they include a variety of guitarists and styles, so there's usually something for everyone, but I could probably compile all the best stuff into one double album and never miss the rest.

To me, Derek writes like a guitarist. Many of his biggest influences are guitarists, especially Eddie Van Halen and Allan Holdsworth. It shows in his solos.

[Dublagent66]

I've always just seen Derek as the stop gap between Kevin Moore and the guy they really wanted at that point, Jordan Rudess.

This.  DS was never going to be a "fit" for DT.  At least not in the long term.  However, I did enjoy his playing and still do.

I don't know. You can say the same thing about KM, that he would never have been a fit in the long term. But, they produced several classics with him in the band, so maybe "being a good fit" isn't a good predictor of what works in a band and what doesn't. I actually think there's a danger of being "too little friction", where everybody is on the same wavelength and there's no cross-challenging anymore.

I think you're missing the point.  They already wanted JR but he was unavailable.  DS was just the interim guy until JR became available.  I'm pretty sure they knew JR was a better fit even before he eventually joined the band.  The only reason KM wasn't a fit is cause he didn't want to be there any longer.

[MirrorMask]

Well, we can't know for sure, but I don't think they got Derek with the long plan of waiting for Jordan. They asked Jordan, he said no, they moved on, then eventually they made LTE and found out he was willing to join, 5 years later. I don't think the plan was "Let's go with Derek until Jordan changes his mind".

It's like with the DT audition to replace Portnoy - Minneman auditioned, he didn't get the gig, Jordan liked him and made a collaboration with him. Should Mangini leave the band of his own accord and Minneman be willing to join, I guess we could hardly said that Mangini was a stand-in for Minneman (different situations, I know, it was just to make an example).

[Super Dude]

Never gonna happen. I can't be arsed to look through all four pages to see if this article has been posted: https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/derek_sherinian_why_i_was_fired_from_dream_theater.html

[ytserush]

DS is one of those people, when he was still in that long stretch of obscurity, people held him in really high regard.

Not to argue, you are far more knowledgeable about music than I am, but they did, really? I assume you mean a very, very small segment of prog-metal fans who were in to whatever he was doing with Planet X(?)

The worst I remember hearing about DS was "he just wasn't the right fit for DT", and over time FII has slowly crept up in people's rankings from what I could tell on DTF. Combine that with Planet X and Black Country Communion, and I would definitely say that DS was pretty well-regarded, at least here.

That's always been my assessment. Still haven't changed my opinion of Anna Lee though. Far and away my least favorite Dream Theater song until Systematic Chaos came around.

Loved Planet X right away too, but if we are to believe his recent comments that was a reaction and not the kind of music he wanted to play. Which for me is a shame because I love that stuff.

 Less a fan of his work over he last 10 years or so, but it seems that's the kind of music he wants to make so he's still living his dream.

[ytserush]

Not sure how well regarded he was, but I think he was definitely well respected, both for his grace he continued to show DT after they canned him, and for seemingly turning himself from a shlock rock side man to a progressive musician. I think people appreciated that.

Ironically, he did that after he left Dream Theater.

[ytserush]

3

With this in mind, I find it curious that some people still cry over Kevin Moore's departure, given he was only a part of 3 albums out of the 13 albums that DT has put out.

I mostly agree.  But that said, I do think it is appropriate to acknowledge that what is different is that Kevin was part of creating and forming DT's sound and musical identity as a band.

True, but either way I still think people kind of worship him in an unhealthy way. I'm a big fan of what he brought to DT, but it's kinda funny how there are still people who refuse to acknowledge they have had other keyboard players for the past 25 years 

It's not just the keyboard player either!

[ytserush]

That isn't really relevant at all to what KM played in DT.  Have you heard Jordan's stuff outside of DT?  I think it is safe to say that that is also "miles from DT's style."  Does that mean Jordan isn't a good fit?  It is what he plays in the band that matters.

It's relevant if he really had no interest in doing that at all.

It could have been a major reason why he left or just another contributing factor.  Jordan seems a lot more open to musical style than Kevin was/is.