Poll

In your opinion do KISS suck?

Yes
39 (57.4%)
No
29 (42.6%)

Total Members Voted: 68

Author Topic: KISS suck or not?  (Read 3645 times)

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Offline TheCountOfNYC

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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #35 on: March 09, 2018, 12:14:10 AM »
I like Detroit Rock City but dislike everything else by them. And their “trademark and sell everything” style really rubs me the wrong way. Gene Simmons trying to trademark the metal horns when he didn’t invent them and doesn’t even do them right is a perfect example of everything that I hate about him and the band.
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Offline Cruithne

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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2018, 02:01:30 AM »
So this question about KISS's suckage has me wondering. Does Rammstein suck? I personally like their music better, but they're certainly not overflowing with musicianship. They're a band that plays catchy tunes and offsets their shortcomings with a spectacular stage show. What's the difference aside from personal preference?

Sense of humour. I've never had much sense that KISS allow one within a 10 mile radius of them. Rammstein are daft as brushes, albeit in a very German way.

KISS both suck and don't. I do love a handful of their songs (e.g. Lick It Up, Crazy Crazy Nights, Rock 'n' Roll All Night, amongst others) and you've got to give them credit for the iconic image and their commitment to putting on a show... but ultimately it's hard to ignore the suspicion that they succeeded far more on marketing than on the strength of their songs.

Offline Mladen

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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2018, 03:38:22 AM »
Absolutely not.

Their first 10 albums contain some of the most fun rock songs I've ever heard.

Offline a51502112

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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2018, 07:04:26 AM »
I find it hard to believe that anyone who loves good straight up hard rock wouldn't at least "really like" those first 6 albums.  Ace is an underrated player, and a lot of those songs shred. 

This. I think they're a great rock band with good, catchy tunes. One thing I appreciate is the use of two guitars both playing differentish parts. It's very well done, a bit like the Beatles and Stones did.
I don't give a crap about what they do offstage, it's just good, fun Rock n' Roll.
...and I happen to disagree that Gene is not a good bassist. He did pretty well.

Offline Zook

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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2018, 08:04:00 AM »
Never cared for Kiss, but when I was younger I did like "Rock and Roll All Night", but then I got older and 98 Rock would play the live version all the time and then I hated it.

The only Kiss song I do like is Iced Earth's cover of Creatures of the Night.

Offline The Walrus

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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #40 on: March 09, 2018, 08:16:32 AM »
Never cared for Kiss, but when I was younger I did like "Rock and Roll All Night", but then I got older and 98 Rock would play the live version all the time and then I hated it.

The only Kiss song I do like is Iced Earth's cover of Creatures of the Night.

+1 on the IE cover; the cover of God of Thunder is all right too but just as a song I don't think that one is good
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Offline Grappler

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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #41 on: March 09, 2018, 08:58:04 AM »
The live albums all kick ass, especially Alive III.  That one is so heavy.  These guys are just an institution in rock and roll. 

I saw them once on the Farewell Tour in 2000.  All four original members, in makeup, with pyro.  Gene spitting blood and singing God of Thunder from the lighting rig, Paul flying out into the crowd to sing Love Gun, and the first tour where they played non-makeup era songs in makeup.  Peter Criss singing Beth and saying "hello Chicago," while the concert was actually 2.5 hours south in Champaign  :rollin.  All from the 7th row.  That was an incredible concert.  I've never felt like I needed to see them again after that. 

So no, they don't suck.  And neither does Rammstein.   :metal

Offline Stadler

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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #42 on: March 09, 2018, 12:32:52 PM »
   :metal :metal

Well, I DID see that show, and I've seen Kiss more than any other band (and will very definitely see them again if circumstances allow).

I don't know what to say to some of this stuff, but "Kiss" is like bourbon or vodka; you either like it or you don't.   Kiss Alive II was the first (or second; might have been "The Stranger" by Billy Joel) record I bought with my own money, and I've been hooked ever since.   I think saying "Oh, but they can't play" is bullshit; it's like saying "Well, Van Halen sucks because their lyrics are bad".   Certainly - his voice today notwithstanding - Paul Stanley had almost 40 years of top tier live singing and he's one of the best frontmen in rock history (certainly, every bit as good as the likes of Vince Neil and Ozzy).   Even the last time I saw them - in 2014 with Def Leppard - it wasn't that Paul "SUCKED!", but he just wasn't Paul of 1976.   Ace has  influenced 100's of guitar players, including, if you believe it, the aforementioned Eddie Van Halen.   The only one I think really did strike the lottery was Peter Criss.  His drumming was great on Hotter Than Hell, but it goes down quickly from there, and added to a lack-luster voice and writing shitty songs, well, he's a bust (BTW, rumors are that he did little of the writing for Beth, and that it was Stan Penridge that did most of the heavy lifting). 

I can only relate the following:
- I took my daughter to the 2014 show.   After Def Leppard, she commented on how good the guitar players were, and how she loves to sing along with them.   After Kiss, she took a shot not that different than the one above (but with the pinwheels of fire during RnRAN), posted it on Instagram and wrote "Greatest night of my life!"

- During that show, they played 75 minutes, and started off sort of flat.  First four songs I was thinking "wow, my kid's not going to dig this.", and then Gene's rig failed as he was lifted up and he got stuck.  He also got PISSED.  He said something to Paul, then for most of the rest of the next song, he was at stage right barking at a roadie.   Well, it was like a switch was flicked and the band realized they had to kick it up a notch.  They finished the last 45 minutes to an hour was some of the best live Kiss I've ever heard.   They were on FIRE.  Even my kid said on the way home "Dad, what happened? it was like there were two different Kiss' on stage!"

- I've met Paul and Gene twice; the first time on the Lick It Up tour.   It was a line, and Paul was talking to two girls, so I was stuck in front of Gene.  He was the nicest guy and the LAST thing from a "rock star asshole".  I had the inserts from the Kiss Alive! and Alive II records, and he walked through the pictures with me while the line waited for Paul.  "Oh, I remember this!  There was no audience, we just played Deuce through and the guy took pictures".  "Oh, I remember that!"  He had a neat little story for almost every picture we looked at.  Later, like 15 years later, (with the Kisstory books) the secrets came out about ghost players and stuff, and it came out that the cover of Alive! was staged.... well Gene told me that 15 years ago.  :)

- I met Paul - with my wife and daughter - at a painting exhibition.  He got down on one knee and talked to my daughter - 7 or so at the time - and talked to her like she was the most important person on the planet.  Asking her about her dress, and her earrings... she didn't know this guy from a row of assholes, but knew a) that her dad looked up to him, and b) "he sang Beth", and that was enough.   And  he did nothing to disavow that view.   Gentleman across the board (though I agree he is more asshole pretending to be nice than the other way around). 

- I got to sing with Gene on stage during his solo tour last year. (not JUST me, about 8 or 10 of us).   Fun, unassuming, no rock star bullshit, and I stood about two feet from him as he played and sang I Love It Loud.   At the end he turned to me, fist bumped and said "having fun?" with that big goofy smile, and he genuinely meant it.  He was there to deliver fun, nothing more, nothing less.   If I didn't have kids in college, I would ABSOLUTELY buy the vault, not for the music, but to meet him again and sit and talk with him.  I do think he's a genuinely nice guy, a big kid, a big fan, that also likes seeming tough and so has his moments.  I think he's also blunt, and that rubs people the wrong way sometimes. 
By the way, the Dan Rather interview with Gene is a must-listen. 

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #43 on: March 09, 2018, 12:54:09 PM »
Those are some great personal memories about Kiss to have!  :metal
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Offline TAC

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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #44 on: March 09, 2018, 01:44:55 PM »
The live albums all kick ass, especially Alive III.  That one is so heavy.  These guys are just an institution in rock and roll. 


Such a great tour.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline cramx3

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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #45 on: March 09, 2018, 02:20:40 PM »
I vote No.  I'm not a huge fan, but they have some solid songs and if you have solid songs then you don't suck.  I'd say they have some music that does suck though, hence why I am not a fan, but some of their hits are really awesome IMO.

Offline The Walrus

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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #46 on: March 09, 2018, 02:25:57 PM »
I vote No.  I'm not a huge fan, but they have some solid songs and if you have solid songs then you don't suck.  I'd say they have some music that does suck though, hence why I am not a fan, but some of their hits are really awesome IMO.

This is an interesting argument to me. For example, Motley Crue has exactly one album of good material and that's their 1998 Greatest Hits compilation. But not a single one of their studio albums is actually 'good' to me. So does the band suck? I would argue yes, if one looks at their entire repertoire and they perceive that all of their 'good' material (subjective, of course, as always) can be boiled down to one disc, especially if they have 9 albums, the ratio of good:bad is not in their favor. But that's just me.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #47 on: March 09, 2018, 02:45:35 PM »
I vote No.  I'm not a huge fan, but they have some solid songs and if you have solid songs then you don't suck.  I'd say they have some music that does suck though, hence why I am not a fan, but some of their hits are really awesome IMO.

This is an interesting argument to me. For example, Motley Crue has exactly one album of good material and that's their 1998 Greatest Hits compilation. But not a single one of their studio albums is actually 'good' to me. So does the band suck? I would argue yes, if one looks at their entire repertoire and they perceive that all of their 'good' material (subjective, of course, as always) can be boiled down to one disc, especially if they have 9 albums, the ratio of good:bad is not in their favor. But that's just me.

Yea but "suck" is a fairly extreme description.  I would say I overall don't find Kiss to be good because I don't enjoy most of the music, but since they have some stuff I do enjoy, I can't say they suck.  And that's just me.

Offline robbob

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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #48 on: March 09, 2018, 04:18:52 PM »
They kinda fall into 2 categories for me. Early stuff from the original band (1st 6 albums and Alive,Alive II) is great. I was a kid then and they were my favorite band at the time. The energy and passion they played with, worked hard every night to put on a great show. Watched some clips when they were on Midnight Special back in those days reconfirmed this in my opinion. What they were doing was innovative and fresh and they also rocked.

But it ended quickly after that IMO. There are some songs here and there that are ok from Creatures, Lick it Up and others. There image and show got old. Plus the music just had no appeal to me at all, just basic, crappy, generic Rock/Metal. Though I have no problems with Gene or Paul and how they market the band, keeping it alive with other musicians "playing" Ace and Peter, if people like it then more power to them I guess.

One other thing that soured my opinion at that time.
I will never forget how disappointed I was coming home, with Dynasty under my arm, super excited to listen to it. Then putting it on and going, Man this sucks!! I don't think I ever recovered from that!!! They weren't a "band" anymore IMO, to many outside influences, different writers, other musicians involved. I thought time to move on to other, better bands.


Offline PowerSlave

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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #49 on: March 09, 2018, 04:42:24 PM »
   :metal :metal

Well, I DID see that show, and I've seen Kiss more than any other band (and will very definitely see them again if circumstances allow).

I don't know what to say to some of this stuff, but "Kiss" is like bourbon or vodka; you either like it or you don't.   Kiss Alive II was the first (or second; might have been "The Stranger" by Billy Joel) record I bought with my own money, and I've been hooked ever since.   I think saying "Oh, but they can't play" is bullshit; it's like saying "Well, Van Halen sucks because their lyrics are bad".   Certainly - his voice today notwithstanding - Paul Stanley had almost 40 years of top tier live singing and he's one of the best frontmen in rock history (certainly, every bit as good as the likes of Vince Neil and Ozzy).   Even the last time I saw them - in 2014 with Def Leppard - it wasn't that Paul "SUCKED!", but he just wasn't Paul of 1976.   Ace has  influenced 100's of guitar players, including, if you believe it, the aforementioned Eddie Van Halen.   The only one I think really did strike the lottery was Peter Criss.  His drumming was great on Hotter Than Hell, but it goes down quickly from there, and added to a lack-luster voice and writing shitty songs, well, he's a bust (BTW, rumors are that he did little of the writing for Beth, and that it was Stan Penridge that did most of the heavy lifting). 

I can only relate the following:
- I took my daughter to the 2014 show.   After Def Leppard, she commented on how good the guitar players were, and how she loves to sing along with them.   After Kiss, she took a shot not that different than the one above (but with the pinwheels of fire during RnRAN), posted it on Instagram and wrote "Greatest night of my life!"

- During that show, they played 75 minutes, and started off sort of flat.  First four songs I was thinking "wow, my kid's not going to dig this.", and then Gene's rig failed as he was lifted up and he got stuck.  He also got PISSED.  He said something to Paul, then for most of the rest of the next song, he was at stage right barking at a roadie.   Well, it was like a switch was flicked and the band realized they had to kick it up a notch.  They finished the last 45 minutes to an hour was some of the best live Kiss I've ever heard.   They were on FIRE.  Even my kid said on the way home "Dad, what happened? it was like there were two different Kiss' on stage!"

- I've met Paul and Gene twice; the first time on the Lick It Up tour.   It was a line, and Paul was talking to two girls, so I was stuck in front of Gene.  He was the nicest guy and the LAST thing from a "rock star asshole".  I had the inserts from the Kiss Alive! and Alive II records, and he walked through the pictures with me while the line waited for Paul.  "Oh, I remember this!  There was no audience, we just played Deuce through and the guy took pictures".  "Oh, I remember that!"  He had a neat little story for almost every picture we looked at.  Later, like 15 years later, (with the Kisstory books) the secrets came out about ghost players and stuff, and it came out that the cover of Alive! was staged.... well Gene told me that 15 years ago.  :)

- I met Paul - with my wife and daughter - at a painting exhibition.  He got down on one knee and talked to my daughter - 7 or so at the time - and talked to her like she was the most important person on the planet.  Asking her about her dress, and her earrings... she didn't know this guy from a row of assholes, but knew a) that her dad looked up to him, and b) "he sang Beth", and that was enough.   And  he did nothing to disavow that view.   Gentleman across the board (though I agree he is more asshole pretending to be nice than the other way around). 

- I got to sing with Gene on stage during his solo tour last year. (not JUST me, about 8 or 10 of us).   Fun, unassuming, no rock star bullshit, and I stood about two feet from him as he played and sang I Love It Loud.   At the end he turned to me, fist bumped and said "having fun?" with that big goofy smile, and he genuinely meant it.  He was there to deliver fun, nothing more, nothing less.   If I didn't have kids in college, I would ABSOLUTELY buy the vault, not for the music, but to meet him again and sit and talk with him.  I do think he's a genuinely nice guy, a big kid, a big fan, that also likes seeming tough and so has his moments.  I think he's also blunt, and that rubs people the wrong way sometimes. 
By the way, the Dan Rather interview with Gene is a must-listen.

Those are great stories! I honestly wish that they would present those sides of themselves to the public more often in these later years.

I was very happy to see Paul work with Ace on that cover song and video a couple of years ago. Then Gene playing live with Ace last year at a benefit. All four of those gentlemen could use an image upgrade. I'm sure that it's within them, but they need to buy into the idea.
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Offline pg1067

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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #50 on: March 09, 2018, 05:11:00 PM »
Revisiting this thread.

I voted "yes," they suck, although there are a handful of songs I like.  On the other hand, I was thinking earlier that I wish I had gotten to see them back in the mid- to late 70s.  No real interest in seeing them now, though.
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Offline bl5150

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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #51 on: March 09, 2018, 05:22:23 PM »

Well, I DID see that show, and I've seen Kiss more than any other band (and will very definitely see them again if circumstances allow).

I don't know what to say to some of this stuff, but "Kiss" is like bourbon or vodka; you either like it or you don't.   Kiss Alive II was the first (or second; might have been "The Stranger" by Billy Joel) record I bought with my own money, and I've been hooked ever since.   I think saying "Oh, but they can't play" is bullshit; it's like saying "Well, Van Halen sucks because their lyrics are bad".   Certainly - his voice today notwithstanding - Paul Stanley had almost 40 years of top tier live singing and he's one of the best frontmen in rock history (certainly, every bit as good as the likes of Vince Neil and Ozzy).   Even the last time I saw them - in 2014 with Def Leppard - it wasn't that Paul "SUCKED!", but he just wasn't Paul of 1976.   Ace has  influenced 100's of guitar players, including, if you believe it, the aforementioned Eddie Van Halen.   The only one I think really did strike the lottery was Peter Criss.  His drumming was great on Hotter Than Hell, but it goes down quickly from there, and added to a lack-luster voice and writing shitty songs, well, he's a bust (BTW, rumors are that he did little of the writing for Beth, and that it was Stan Penridge that did most of the heavy lifting). 

I can only relate the following:
- I took my daughter to the 2014 show.   After Def Leppard, she commented on how good the guitar players were, and how she loves to sing along with them.   After Kiss, she took a shot not that different than the one above (but with the pinwheels of fire during RnRAN), posted it on Instagram and wrote "Greatest night of my life!"

- During that show, they played 75 minutes, and started off sort of flat.  First four songs I was thinking "wow, my kid's not going to dig this.", and then Gene's rig failed as he was lifted up and he got stuck.  He also got PISSED.  He said something to Paul, then for most of the rest of the next song, he was at stage right barking at a roadie.   Well, it was like a switch was flicked and the band realized they had to kick it up a notch.  They finished the last 45 minutes to an hour was some of the best live Kiss I've ever heard.   They were on FIRE.  Even my kid said on the way home "Dad, what happened? it was like there were two different Kiss' on stage!"

- I've met Paul and Gene twice; the first time on the Lick It Up tour.   It was a line, and Paul was talking to two girls, so I was stuck in front of Gene.  He was the nicest guy and the LAST thing from a "rock star asshole".  I had the inserts from the Kiss Alive! and Alive II records, and he walked through the pictures with me while the line waited for Paul.  "Oh, I remember this!  There was no audience, we just played Deuce through and the guy took pictures".  "Oh, I remember that!"  He had a neat little story for almost every picture we looked at.  Later, like 15 years later, (with the Kisstory books) the secrets came out about ghost players and stuff, and it came out that the cover of Alive! was staged.... well Gene told me that 15 years ago.  :)

- I met Paul - with my wife and daughter - at a painting exhibition.  He got down on one knee and talked to my daughter - 7 or so at the time - and talked to her like she was the most important person on the planet.  Asking her about her dress, and her earrings... she didn't know this guy from a row of assholes, but knew a) that her dad looked up to him, and b) "he sang Beth", and that was enough.   And  he did nothing to disavow that view.   Gentleman across the board (though I agree he is more asshole pretending to be nice than the other way around). 

- I got to sing with Gene on stage during his solo tour last year. (not JUST me, about 8 or 10 of us).   Fun, unassuming, no rock star bullshit, and I stood about two feet from him as he played and sang I Love It Loud.   At the end he turned to me, fist bumped and said "having fun?" with that big goofy smile, and he genuinely meant it.  He was there to deliver fun, nothing more, nothing less.   If I didn't have kids in college, I would ABSOLUTELY buy the vault, not for the music, but to meet him again and sit and talk with him.  I do think he's a genuinely nice guy, a big kid, a big fan, that also likes seeming tough and so has his moments.  I think he's also blunt, and that rubs people the wrong way sometimes. 
By the way, the Dan Rather interview with Gene is a must-listen.

Good stuff Stadler.

They are also my most seen band but that's partially because , growing up ,KISS were one of the few bands who came out here to Australia regularly.   I have seen them six, maybe seven, times which includes an intimate theater gig that had a more "diehard" setlist.

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/kiss/2004/palais-theatre-melbourne-australia-3d405ef.html

KISS have an interesting relationship with Australia.   They were big in the US mid-late 70's and did okay out here and then around 1979-1980 that turned on a dime and as they began to fade in the US "KISSteria" took off here in the Dynasty-Unmasked era - which is why to this day Australia is about the only place they tend to play Shandi.

And as such they toured here for the first time in 1980 and KISS was EVERYWHERE.  And that's the era I grew up in - collecting KISS cards as a 6 or 7 year old and the only music I owned from the age of 8-10 yo  was a single album - KISS Killers.   

They then didn't tour out here again until 96-97 with the Convention (KIss My Ass) tour - the fact that they only did the conventions in the US and Australia says something I suppose.  They retain a fanatical fanbase out here (esp in Melbourne) and have toured regularly ever since , as has Ace , Bruce Kulick and Peter Criss.

I have a question for you Stadler.   Most gigs these days are in "over 18's"clubs but KISS still play arenas out here (as is Gene in August).  I am thinking about taking my 10 year old son along.   Based on what you've seen at his solo gig (great band!) would you see any issue with taking a young kid along?  I expect I might be catching up with Gene too , so that'll be cool.

I have promised my son I will take him along if KISS (as expected) do a last tour out here in 2019 so hopefully that happens for his sake.   That'll be almost 2 decades after I saw my Farewell Tour in my mid 20's  :lol
« Last Edit: March 09, 2018, 05:33:04 PM by bl5150 »
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Offline pogoowner

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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #52 on: March 09, 2018, 08:12:58 PM »
I can't stand anything about them.

Offline Lethean

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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #53 on: March 09, 2018, 10:09:33 PM »
I can't stand anything about them.

Neither can I.

However, to Stadler - I enjoy reading your concert stories.  I think it's awesome when someone feels that way about a band or a show, even if it's one that I don't care for, and in your posts I can relate to what I've felt about other bands, like DT.

Offline ?

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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #54 on: March 10, 2018, 06:08:05 AM »
I liked KISS as a kid and still enjoy various songs by them (Detroit Rock City, God of Thunder, Creatures of the Night, War Machine), so they certainly don't suck, even though they (or mainly Gene, I guess) have taken the marketing and merchandising thing to ridiculous extremes. Seriously, air guitar strings? :lolpalm:

Offline Cyclopssss

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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #55 on: March 10, 2018, 07:54:36 AM »
I grew up with KISS and was a member of the KISS Army once, so NO. But I detest Gene as a person. Can't stand the guy!
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Offline Stadler

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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #56 on: March 11, 2018, 10:41:37 PM »
I get the sort of indifference; they're not for everyone, and I'm not ignorant to the marketing aspects of it (and it is a bummer for me, because part of their charm back in the late 70's and early 80's was the mystery).   But I really don't get the outright hate for them, I really don't.   Almost all the things that are common criticisms of other bands, they DON'T do, and yet...  I have zero personal evidence - I mean ZERO - that says "Gene is an asshole", but the image persists, and I can't honestly say I see why. 

Offline Anguyen92

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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #57 on: March 11, 2018, 10:52:19 PM »
I just think that Gene is being a very thoroughly honest guy and has that sense of shrewdness when it comes to the business side of things.  In which like it or not, in this music industry, you sort of need that ability to thrive in this industry, and that certain comments he states at times comes off as him being an asshole in people's eyes since he's focusing about the financial side of things above all else (which is not really as bad as a thing as one may think).  I guess the same can be said about Lars Ulrich as well.  I mean Gene made some rather blunt comments regarding stuff like the passing of Kurt Cobain that can rub people off the wrong way, but I don't see anything "immoral" or asshole-ish about the comments he made regarding those kinds of topics.

Like I said before, I may not like KISS as a band, but I sure do respect Gene and Paul's honesty when it comes to certain things.  It sorta makes me wish more people have that sort of honesty (especially bands that reunite when it's really primarily about the money and nothing else like making exciting new music).
« Last Edit: March 11, 2018, 10:58:08 PM by Anguyen92 »

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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #58 on: March 11, 2018, 11:03:25 PM »
The poll needs a 'swallow' option...

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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #59 on: March 12, 2018, 12:50:01 AM »
Gene (and one of their key marketing guys - Brandvold) have been pretty upfront about the fact that offending as many as possible without crossing "the line" is a key marketing tactic of theirs.  My belief is that Gene executes this as business strategy but is quite different in private.

I really doubt that Gene ever thought he could seriously trademark "the horns" but it sure kept him in the news for a while.
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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #60 on: March 12, 2018, 07:33:23 AM »
This comes up in the P/R threads as well, though:  why does being "honest"* make you an "asshole"?   And conversely, why do we feel authorized to call someone an "asshole" because we disagree with them?  As much as I love Kiss, I disagree with Gene (and ESPECIALLY Paul) on a lot of things, but at the end of the day, I sort of come back to... these guys are (well, Gene moreso than Paul) the epitome of the "The American Dream". 


* One think I do reject as well, is this notion that "sharing your opinion" is "honesty".   Eddie Trunk says this all the time; just because you hold an opinion and share it doesn't make you "honest".  It makes you "outspoken".  "Honesty" is "speaking truth"; "opinions" aren't "truth". 

Offline ganpondorodf

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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #61 on: March 12, 2018, 08:10:00 AM »
If some asshole dies and I tell his widow he was an asshole at his funeral, I'm being honest but I'm also being an asshole myself

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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #62 on: March 12, 2018, 01:47:18 PM »
Well there's no question they have Always known how to make publicity and promote themselves. They've Always known how to make money.
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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #63 on: March 13, 2018, 08:26:42 AM »
If some asshole dies and I tell his widow he was an asshole at his funeral, I'm being honest but I'm also being an asshole myself

Well, that's my point; you're NOT being "honest"; there is no "truth" there, you're just speaking your blunt opinion.   Saying it's "honest" is implying that your opinion is somehow gospel truth.

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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #64 on: March 13, 2018, 08:30:29 AM »
If some asshole dies and I tell his widow he was an asshole at his funeral, I'm being honest but I'm also being an asshole myself

Well, that's my point; you're NOT being "honest"; there is no "truth" there, you're just speaking your blunt opinion.   Saying it's "honest" is implying that your opinion is somehow gospel truth.

I take it as him being honest with himself. Also send me an album.  :biggrin:
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Offline bl5150

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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #65 on: March 13, 2018, 08:34:51 AM »
If some asshole dies and I tell his widow he was an asshole at his funeral, I'm being honest but I'm also being an asshole myself

Well, that's my point; you're NOT being "honest"; there is no "truth" there, you're just speaking your blunt opinion.   Saying it's "honest" is implying that your opinion is somehow gospel truth.

When I hear someone talk about being honest in the context of an opinion, I think of political correctness.   The way things are these days with everyone itching to be outraged by something many people will sanitise their opinions to the point of not giving their real "honest"  opinion when asked -  someone who doesn't have their PC filter on all the time (says what they think) could legitimately be thought of as giving their "honest opinion" in that context.

I don't see it as claiming "gospel truth."

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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #66 on: March 13, 2018, 10:58:56 AM »
Yup.

You have the right to be honest, and I have the right to think you're an asshole. :)
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #67 on: March 13, 2018, 12:09:13 PM »
If some asshole dies and I tell his widow he was an asshole at his funeral, I'm being honest but I'm also being an asshole myself

Well, that's my point; you're NOT being "honest"; there is no "truth" there, you're just speaking your blunt opinion.   Saying it's "honest" is implying that your opinion is somehow gospel truth.

Not quite.  Honest can simply mean being sincere or without deceit.  Absolute truth is not required.
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Offline PowerSlave

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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #68 on: March 13, 2018, 01:15:47 PM »
This comes up in the P/R threads as well, though:  why does being "honest"* make you an "asshole"?   And conversely, why do we feel authorized to call someone an "asshole" because we disagree with them?  As much as I love Kiss, I disagree with Gene (and ESPECIALLY Paul) on a lot of things, but at the end of the day, I sort of come back to... these guys are (well, Gene moreso than Paul) the epitome of the "The American Dream". 


* One think I do reject as well, is this notion that "sharing your opinion" is "honesty".   Eddie Trunk says this all the time; just because you hold an opinion and share it doesn't make you "honest".  It makes you "outspoken".  "Honesty" is "speaking truth"; "opinions" aren't "truth".

You have to admit, he fully embraces the asshole image. He went so far as to name an album that. I get the impression that he enjoys it.
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Re: KISS suck or not?
« Reply #69 on: April 23, 2018, 01:54:15 PM »
I have no idea if this is true or not, but damn, I sure hope it is. It'd be the first redeeming thing I've read about Gene, perhaps ever.

Quote
Gene was set to plug the book with FoxNews.com's entertainment division, when according to an unnamed Fox staffer, he barged into a production meeting, pulled open his red velvet shirt and yelled "Hey chicks, sue me!" — before "telling Michael Jackson pedophilia jokes, and then bopped two employees on the head with his book, making derisive comments about their comparative intelligence according to the sound their heads made when struck."

 :rollin

That's a level of irreverence that really makes me happy, but doesn't show up very often. And certainly not what I'd expect from Gene. We're talking about a Graham Chapan level of irreverence here.
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