2018 NFL Thread - The Dynasty

[KevShmev]

Packers/Patriots 3 1/2 years ago is a biggie for me.

Just think, if some dopey TE doesn't botch an onside kick in the NFCCG:

-it is very possible that Aaron Rodgers gets a 2nd ring
-Brady/Belichick suffer their 3rd Super Bowl loss then instead of getting their 4th win
-the Seahawks possibly do not fall apart as quickly as they did because of internal issues due to the play call that many players felt cost them SB49

We all miss out on a fantastic, pressure-cooker of an ending. What we got was a helluva game.

True. I was looking at it more from a long-lasting/legacy standpoint it had on three different NFL franchises.

There was a lot more to that loss than the onside kick.  The Packers were up 16-0 at halftime and just gave that game away.

Very true, but I mentioned just the onside kick because that was a simple "do your job" play that had the Packers recovered it, the game was over.  To me, if I were a Packers fan, the play that would stick in my craw even more was the INT with 4-5 minutes left where Peppers told the player to go down instead of continuing the run back (where he likely scores and makes it 26-7).  The stupidity of that still amazes me.

One curious thing about Aaron Rodgers, as awesome as he is, is that he has one of the absolute worst 4th quarter comeback/game winning drive records in the game. Everyone remembers the few miracle ones he engineered, but overall his record is dismal. Maybe just random statistical noise, but all the usual suspects like Brady, Ben, Brees, Stafford are near the top of the list and Rodgers is all alone among franchise QBs at the bottom.

I am not going to hold it against Rodgers that he is usually so great for all 4 quarters to where he doesn't have to come back and win, or because sometimes he led his team back and then the defense blew it.

I'm putting it out there:   Lawrence Taylor may be my vote for greatest player in the history of the NFL.

To me, he is the conversation along with Jerry Rice (still my pick for the best), Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Barry Sanders, etc.

[Stadler]

I don't want to sabotage the conversation, but as much as I love Tom Brady, and as much as he dominates the game (meaning, the game he's playing in), Lawrence Taylor dominated the game (meaning the entire game).  Brady isn't really doing anything "new", he's just doing it at a higher level than we're used to.  Lawrence Taylor was like no other linebacker before him.   

[KevShmev]

The story Parcells tells at 1:30 of this is so awesome:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHC15HYwJ5Q

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Edit oops

[pg1067]

Today's team, the New York Giants

Mt. Rushmore:  Lawrence Taylor, Eli Manning (easily over Phil Simms, Michael Strahan and Harry Carson.  Oddly, for such an old team, there are not a ton of obvious selections (as with the Steelers).  I thought about Title, Gifford and Summerall, but they all predate me, so I just don't know them well enough.

Memorable games:  sadly, Super Bowls 21, 25, 42 and 46.  Can't really think of any others.

Today's team, The Cleveland Browns

We did the Browns already -- back on June 25:  https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=51825.msg2449972;topicseen#msg2449972

The Browns do not have 8 NFL championships.  They have 4.  They also have 4 AAFC championships (1946-49), which most certainly are not NFL championships (and, if you want to count AAFC championships as NFL championships, then we should probably also count AFL championships (3 for the Texans/Chiefs, 2 each for the Bills and Oilers/Titans, and 1 each for the Chargers, Raiders and Jets)).

[Cool Chris]

I thought he did too, and sure enough he did! They are such a badass franchise they must deserve two entries!

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=51825.msg2449972#msg2449972

[pg1067]

deleted

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Today's team, the New York Giants

Mt. Rushmore:  Lawrence Taylor, Eli Manning (easily over Phil Simms, Michael Strahan and Harry Carson.  Oddly, for such an old team, there are not a ton of obvious selections (as with the Steelers).  I thought about Title, Gifford and Summerall, but they all predate me, so I just don't know them well enough.

Memorable games:  sadly, Super Bowls 21, 25, 42 and 46.  Can't really think of any others.

Today's team, The Cleveland Browns

We did the Browns already -- back on June 25:  https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=51825.msg2449972;topicseen#msg2449972

The Browns do not have 8 NFL championships.  They have 4.  They also have 4 AAFC championships (1946-49), which most certainly are not NFL championships (and, if you want to count AAFC championships as NFL championships, then we should probably also count AFL championships (3 for the Texans/Chiefs, 2 each for the Bills and Oilers/Titans, and 1 each for the Chargers, Raiders and Jets)).

LOL I thought it was familiar.....guess the list I was going off of screwed me up. Lol oh well. Thanks wikipedia

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Alright... moving on.

Today's team, the Chicago Bears (Da Bears)



League Championships 9 (1921, 1932, 1933, 1940, 1941, 1943, 1946, 1963, 1985)


Mount Rushmore for me.... Walter Payton, Dick Butkus, Gale Sayers, Mike Singletary


Really like the uniforms and helmets. A classic look.

Memorable games for me... 2006 comeback win against the Cardinals. Not much else in the past 30ish years comes to mind.

[pg1067]

Alright... moving on.

Today's team, the Chicago Bears (Da Bears)

Mt. Rushmore:  Walter Payton, Mike Singletary, Dick Butkus, Bronco Nagurski.  Honorable mentions:  Ditka, Sayers and Red Grange.

Memorable games:  Mostly Super Bowl 20 (and to a much lesser extent SB 41).  I also remember a game (I think it was on Thanksgiving probably 20-30 years ago) against the Lions where the Bears tied it late in regulation, won the coin toss, and returned the opening kickoff of OT for a touchdown.  I think that was the Bears.


Revisiting the Giants:  Another memorable game is from the late 70s or early 80s where the Giants were running out the clock in a close game and the QB (Joe Pisarchik?) handed off the ball instead of taking a knee and fumbled and an Eagles player returned the fumble for a touchdown.

[Cool Chris]

Super Bowl XX is the first one I can remember watching. I am sure I watched earlier ones with my dad, but was either too young or didn't have any football knowledge or interest to retain any memory of them.

[Stadler]

Revisiting the Giants:  Another memorable game is from the late 70s or early 80s where the Giants were running out the clock in a close game and the QB (Joe Pisarchik?) handed off the ball instead of taking a knee and fumbled and an Eagles player returned the fumble for a touchdown.

Fuck you.  haha, I'm kidding.    Kind of.   Not really.

All Pisarcik had to do was take a knee to seal the victory, but no, he couldn't do that, he HAD to hand it off to Larry Csonka.   Herm Edwards took it into the endzone for a touchdown which gave the Eagles the win.   It was 1978, but I remember that like it was yesterday.

[Stadler]

Bears:   Payton, Butkus, Singletary, McMahon.

Yep, I said it.  I loved that guy.  He won wherever he was, even when he wasn't supposed to.  Yeah, he was a dumbass in terms of playing harder than he did smart, but you couldn't count any team out if he was behind center, and I value that very highly.

[pg1067]

Revisiting the Giants:  Another memorable game is from the late 70s or early 80s where the Giants were running out the clock in a close game and the QB (Joe Pisarchik?) handed off the ball instead of taking a knee and fumbled and an Eagles player returned the fumble for a touchdown.

Fuck you.  haha, I'm kidding.    Kind of.   Not really.

I love you, Stadler!   

[Grappler]

Naturally, a lifelong Bears fan, since I've lived near Chicago all of my life.  Brian Urlacher was amazing but constant QB issues (and the lack of protection there-of) are always present.  When you watch the Patriots, Tom Brady has at least 7 seconds and a great pocket to work within.  When you watch the Bears, their QB has very little time to throw because there is zero protection and a nearly immediate collapse of the pocket.  Jay Cutler wasn't a bad quarterback, but they never protected him enough to let him try and do the job well.

I loved having Devin Hester on the team - any time that guy was on the field, you just knew he was capable of doing something spectacular.  It's just too bad that he couldn't really catch the ball on offense.  Those first two years where teams continued to kick to him were awesome.  They rode an amazing defense and kick returner to a Super Bowl.  And Tony Dungy made a last minute decision to kick to Hester to open the Super Bowl, which gave him the opportunity to return the opening kick for a touchdown.  It was only downhill from there as our defense and Rex Grossman were no match for the Colts and Peyton Manning.

Since then, it's back to generally mediocre football, but we hope things turn around every September.   I actually haven't sat down to watch a full game in about 3 years, due to having very young kids and being busy with them every Sunday.  I haven't missed much, have I? 

[PowerSlave]

My worst Bears memory of all time. They go to the SB with one of the greatest RB's of all time, get down to the goal line and hand the ball off to Refrigerator Perry... Hey Ditka, give Walter a SB touchdown, will ya?

[Dream Team]

Living in New England was fun during the time of SB XX. Many of the locals insisted the Patriots had a chance 

[KevShmev]

My worst Bears memory of all time. They go to the SB with one of the greatest RB's of all time, get down to the goal line and hand the ball off to Refrigerator Perry... Hey Ditka, give Walter a SB touchdown, will ya?

Eh, I always thought that was the most overblown story of all time.  Walter Payton got a ring in the twilight of his career, after a HOF career.  Had he scored a 1-yard plunge, would anybody remember? Nah.

[King Postwhore]

Living in New England was fun during the time of SB XX. Many of the locals insisted the Patriots had a chance 

You hurt me. 

[KevShmev]

I think that was the one SB I actually rooted for the Patriots (the cockiness of the Bears annoyed me at the time...I was 12, sue me )...and of course that is the one where they got annihilated.

[King Postwhore]

It was an easy second half to leave and get food.  All the others I ate fingernails.   Lol

[PowerSlave]

My worst Bears memory of all time. They go to the SB with one of the greatest RB's of all time, get down to the goal line and hand the ball off to Refrigerator Perry... Hey Ditka, give Walter a SB touchdown, will ya?

Eh, I always thought that was the most overblown story of all time.  Walter Payton got a ring in the twilight of his career, after a HOF career.  Had he scored a 1-yard plunge, would anybody remember? Nah.

Maybe, maybe not. But everyone certainly remembers him not getting the call. It's almost as bad as the Seahawks call a few years ago. Walter was that important of a player. Ditka has always had a screw loose.

[Cool Chris]

It's almost as bad as the Seahawks call a few years ago. Walter was that important of a player. Ditka has always had a screw loose.

Uh, not letting a guy getting a TD in a 46-10 romp is almost as bad as throwing a pass on the 1 yard line with Lynch in the backfield?

[PowerSlave]

As far as "legacy" for one of the greatest to play the game? Sure. The bears were kicking the shit out of the Pats. You get your legend a TD, instead of some fluke player that nobody would have remembered otherwise. It's insulting.

[KevShmev]

Insulting?  Oh, come on.

Maybe if Payton had averaged more than 2.8 YPC in the game, he would have scored.

[King Postwhore]

You do what you do to win.  If he was having a bad game, other pick up and guess what?  He got a ring.

[Stadler]

My worst Bears memory of all time. They go to the SB with one of the greatest RB's of all time, get down to the goal line and hand the ball off to Refrigerator Perry... Hey Ditka, give Walter a SB touchdown, will ya?

Eh, I always thought that was the most overblown story of all time.  Walter Payton got a ring in the twilight of his career, after a HOF career.  Had he scored a 1-yard plunge, would anybody remember? Nah.

Maybe, maybe not. But everyone certainly remembers him not getting the call. It's almost as bad as the Seahawks call a few years ago. Walter was that important of a player. Ditka has always had a screw loose.

And I don't get the second guessing.   When everyone in the stadium says "they're giving it to Walter/Lynch", I think the coach's job is to make the best tactical decision for the team, emotions be damned.   They're not kids, there are no "participation trophies".   Payton is no less a legend (and a top flight gentleman) for not scoring a TD, and frankly, he wasn't lighting it up in that game.   He had two or three other chances to score from inside the five yard line and blew every one of them.   I don't think you can blame Ditka - who later did express regret over not giving him another shot, though Payton never said a cross word about Ditka publicly - for making that call.  Same with Pete Carroll.   (And unlike Payton, Lynch whined like a baby about the call after, which tells me that Carroll made the right call.  Lynch wasn't about the game, he was about Lynch.)

[PowerSlave]

No doubt that Walter was a class act about it, and throughout his entire career. The entire reason for my stance was that the game was well in hand, and never in doubt. Even if you don't score then you have one of the greatest defenses in the history of the game, and you would have the Pats backed up on their goal line. The chances of the situation going sour on you would almost be next to none at that point. Why not do everything that you can to honor the greatest player in the history of your organization?

I get why you guys don't agree with me, but I'm not off my rocker for feeling the way I do about it. 

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Maybe Perry was a beloved human being that they wanted to do something special for.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Unless I otherwise messed up, this is the last of the 32 teams!

Today's team, the Green Bay Packers



13 League Championships (1929, 1930, 1931, 1936, 1939, 1944, 1961, 1962, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1996, 2010)

Mount Rushmore... here goes nothing..... Vince Lombardi, Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers, Ray Nitschke


Uniforms/helmet are iconic!

Memorable games.... too many to count. But just to name one... their most recent Playoff game against Arizona.

[Stadler]

My Mt. Rushmore:   Favre, Rodgers, Starr, Majkowski

HAHA, kidding, I just wanted to see if I could get a Mt. Rushmore with FOUR QBs on one team, but no.  My real one is:

Favre, Rodgers, Starr, Nitschke

I've avoided coaches (with the exception of Shula) but if any coach deserves it, it's Lombardi.  Also honorable mention to Jerry Kramer, Reggie White, Forrest Gregg, Paul Hornung and Max McGee.   Shout out to 60's offensive lineman Bob Skoronski, a friend of my dad's from growing up.  If you believe my pop, Bob taught him to drive. Bart Starr has publicly advocated for him (Bob not my dad) to be in the Hall Of Fame.   

[pg1067]

Unless I otherwise messed up, this is the last of the 32 teams!

Today's team, the Green Bay Packers

Mt. Rushmore:  Bart Starr, Bret Fav-re (although, IMO, he's one of the most overrated players of all time), Ray Nitschke and Don Hutson (honorable mentions to Aaron Rogers, Paul Hornung, Jim Taylor, Jerry Kramer and Reggie White).  I really wanted to say Lynn Dickey, but that was mostly because 10 year old me thought his name was funny.

Memorable games:  Super Bowl 32, bitches!!!  I wasn't around for the first two, and 31 and 45 weren't really all that memorable.

[KevShmev]

I know I am biased, but 32 is still the best Super Bowl ever.  A legitimately great game for all four quarters, was back and forth the whole way, and had a handful of memorable plays (although the Elway helicopter run gets the most ink now).

[Accelerando]

My Mt. Rushmore is Favre, Rodgers, Starr, and The Minister of Defense, Reggie White.

Rodger’s Hail Mary in Detroit might be my favorite play. I was on Cloud 9 for days!

[Rattlehead]

I have a ton of respect for the Packers franchise and Rodgers. I'd love to see him win another championship or two before he retires, unless he happens to play Denver in the SB one day.