Author Topic: Happy New Year From JP and MP  (Read 19914 times)

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Offline pg1067

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Re: Happy New Year From JP and MP
« Reply #175 on: February 05, 2018, 04:26:50 PM »
Does anyone know if MM's signing on with the band had a term length? Not sure if that was ever disclosed

I'm sure it wasn't disclosed and I can't even conceive that whatever Mangini may have signed with DT would have had any sort of "term length."  In fact, I've never heard of any band agreement or agreement in which a new member adopts an existing band agreement would have a preset term length (and yes, I have experience with these things although no personal knowledge at all regarding the DT agreement(s)).
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Offline YtseJam

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Re: Happy New Year From JP and MP
« Reply #176 on: February 05, 2018, 04:49:11 PM »
I have a lot of experience in contracts and agreements as well and most of them have term lengths as well as out clauses. It would make sense to do a term length deal and then either renew or part ways. Business is business but anyway, I was just asking not speculating.

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Re: Happy New Year From JP and MP
« Reply #177 on: February 05, 2018, 04:50:38 PM »
I have a lot of experience in contracts and agreements as well and most of them have term lengths as well as out clauses. It would make sense to do a term length deal and then either renew or part ways. Business is business but anyway, I was just asking not speculating.

In a band? I doubt that any band that isn't dealing with a "for hire" situation has a time limit to it. Out clauses? Maybe. But time limits? Nah.
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Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: Happy New Year From JP and MP
« Reply #178 on: February 05, 2018, 04:53:22 PM »
Does anyone know if MM's signing on with the band had a term length? Not sure if that was ever disclosed

I'm sure it wasn't disclosed and I can't even conceive that whatever Mangini may have signed with DT would have had any sort of "term length."  In fact, I've never heard of any band agreement or agreement in which a new member adopts an existing band agreement would have a preset term length (and yes, I have experience with these things although no personal knowledge at all regarding the DT agreement(s)).

Very different scenario but when Dio returned to Black Sabbath the first time in 1992, he had a contract for a set time.  In a weird coincidence, his contract ended on November 13th and on the 14th and 15th Black Sabbath opened for Ozzy Osbourne on his "Final Show" and then reunited with him on the second night.  Dio said no way so they let his contract expire and Rob Halford filled in.

Online Orbert

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Re: Happy New Year From JP and MP
« Reply #179 on: February 06, 2018, 03:49:10 AM »
That's the first and only time I've ever heard of a band hiring someone as a regular member of the band, but with a term length.  It just seems bizarre.

With any other work situation, you're just an employee, so the gig could be assumed forever (until you quit or get fired or something) or have a set length.  But in a band, the assumption is always that you're in the band permanently.  This is the band now.

Note that this is different from hiring side musicians to play on an album, or for a specific tour.  Those guys are clearly not regular members of the band, just helping fill things out.  But when Dio joined Sabbath, was it widely known that it was just a temporary gig?

Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: Happy New Year From JP and MP
« Reply #180 on: February 06, 2018, 06:13:55 AM »
That's the first and only time I've ever heard of a band hiring someone as a regular member of the band, but with a term length.  It just seems bizarre.

With any other work situation, you're just an employee, so the gig could be assumed forever (until you quit or get fired or something) or have a set length.  But in a band, the assumption is always that you're in the band permanently.  This is the band now.

Note that this is different from hiring side musicians to play on an album, or for a specific tour.  Those guys are clearly not regular members of the band, just helping fill things out.  But when Dio joined Sabbath, was it widely known that it was just a temporary gig?

No. They made all the usual statements implying he was back for good.  Now that we know all the details, we also know they got a temporary record deal with Warner Brothers. Black Sabbath were signed to IRS records at the time so they got special permission to have a wider release through a bigger label. Then when  Dio left they went back to the smaller IRS records.

Very odd time.

Online Chino

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Re: Happy New Year From JP and MP
« Reply #181 on: February 06, 2018, 06:33:30 AM »
Does anyone know if MM's signing on with the band had a term length? Not sure if that was ever disclosed

I'm sure it wasn't disclosed and I can't even conceive that whatever Mangini may have signed with DT would have had any sort of "term length."  In fact, I've never heard of any band agreement or agreement in which a new member adopts an existing band agreement would have a preset term length (and yes, I have experience with these things although no personal knowledge at all regarding the DT agreement(s)).

Didn't Portnoy's contract with Avenged Sevenfold have a set limit?

Offline DarkLord_Lalinc

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Re: Happy New Year From JP and MP
« Reply #182 on: February 06, 2018, 06:37:50 AM »
Does anyone know if MM's signing on with the band had a term length? Not sure if that was ever disclosed

I'm sure it wasn't disclosed and I can't even conceive that whatever Mangini may have signed with DT would have had any sort of "term length."  In fact, I've never heard of any band agreement or agreement in which a new member adopts an existing band agreement would have a preset term length (and yes, I have experience with these things although no personal knowledge at all regarding the DT agreement(s)).

Didn't Portnoy's contract with Avenged Sevenfold have a set limit?
That was different. Portnoy was a hired gun for that tour and nothing more, which is the situation that made the band go like 'woah' when Portnoy went all like: Hey guys I'm ready to do this with you all, I'm joining!
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Online Orbert

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Re: Happy New Year From JP and MP
« Reply #183 on: February 06, 2018, 07:11:10 AM »
Exactly.  The Rev had died, leaving them without a drummer for the tour, so Portnoy jumped in.  It was announced that Mike was filling in on drums for the tour, but no one ever said anything publicly about it being a permanent job.  In fact, it was only for the current leg of the tour.  Avenged Sevenfold got Arin Ilejay to finish out the tour in January 2011, possibly because Mike had told them up front that Dream Theater was planning to start work on the new album in 2011, but possibly because Mike forced their hand when he left Dream Theater and told Avenged Sevenfold that he was ready to join them full time (which was never the deal).

Offline cramx3

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Re: Happy New Year From JP and MP
« Reply #184 on: February 06, 2018, 08:11:40 AM »
A7X explicitly stated they were not comfortable with MP leaving DT.  There was an interview with them where they said they don't like the publicity and already had stated there was no permanency with MP in A7X so when he went public with leaving DT, A7X was fairly quick to just end their working relationship to not create more drama around them. 

Online Orbert

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Re: Happy New Year From JP and MP
« Reply #185 on: February 06, 2018, 11:04:41 AM »
But he'd already put out his press release!

Offline Mladen

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Re: Happy New Year From JP and MP
« Reply #186 on: February 06, 2018, 12:07:39 PM »
I was so looking forward to this.  :lol

Offline bosk1

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Re: Happy New Year From JP and MP
« Reply #187 on: February 06, 2018, 02:20:33 PM »
A7X explicitly stated they were not comfortable with MP leaving DT.  There was an interview with them where they said they don't like the publicity and already had stated there was no permanency with MP in A7X so when he went public with leaving DT, A7X was fairly quick to just end their working relationship to not create more drama around them

Well, no, not exactly.  They weren't "fairly quick" to do anything.  That's when the agreement expired.  They didn't proactively do anything to cut him loose, according to them.  The agreement just ended.  The only thing they were quick about was telling him they already had someone else lined up for the next leg after he said he wanted to join.
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Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: Happy New Year From JP and MP
« Reply #188 on: February 06, 2018, 03:02:36 PM »
Just thought of another example which is obviously an Incredibly different scenario from Dream Theater. With the Guns N Roses reunion I have heard rumors that Duff and slash were just signed for a set time. It would make sense. I couldn't see axl giving up much power in Guns N Roses so in a way they were just hired guns. He also made them play a bunch of Chinese Democracy songs. So that kind of showed they were game for anything or maybe the contract stated they had to be. Anyway now there are rumors that they are recording an album so in that instance I guess it would mean the contract was extended but I seriously doubt they became full-fledged band members or anything given the turmoil.

Offline cramx3

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Re: Happy New Year From JP and MP
« Reply #189 on: February 06, 2018, 03:19:33 PM »
A7X explicitly stated they were not comfortable with MP leaving DT.  There was an interview with them where they said they don't like the publicity and already had stated there was no permanency with MP in A7X so when he went public with leaving DT, A7X was fairly quick to just end their working relationship to not create more drama around them

Well, no, not exactly.  They weren't "fairly quick" to do anything.  That's when the agreement expired.  They didn't proactively do anything to cut him loose, according to them.  The agreement just ended.  The only thing they were quick about was telling him they already had someone else lined up for the next leg after he said he wanted to join.

Thanks for clarifying the part about the agreement and pro-actively not doing anything as they didn't need to I guess, but they were still fairly quick to make it known he was not going to be in A7X fulltime after leaving DT since MP saying "Now I can be with you guys" kind of makes A7X have to let him know that's not going to be the case.

https://loudwire.com/zacky-vengeance-avenged-sevenfold-speaks-mike-portnoy-dream-theater-drama/

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Zacky goes on to say “He told us, 'Hey, I've got good news and bad news. I quit Dream Theater.' We were like, 'Oh, no. Well, if you're happy, then that's good.' [And he was like], 'Now I can be with you guys.' And we were like, 'That's not necessarily what we decided upon. And you should take your time and reconsider.' And he was like, 'Well, I put out my press release.' We were like, 'Dude, that's not how we do business. You should have talked to us before.'

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Happy New Year From JP and MP
« Reply #190 on: February 06, 2018, 06:39:45 PM »
Madman, correct, and let's remember that Portnoy's condition to stay in the band in the late 90's was that he basically be given full control over the band, so while Petrucci was a co-leader when it came to the creative side, he was not when it came to everything else*. <snip>
*Which I believe to be the case, going from memory, and I am sure if anything is slightly inaccurate, DTF's resident fact checker will let us all know. :lol :lol :biggrin:
Actually, that's incorrect. The agreement that they forget the fake democracy was instead to simply acknowledge that JP and MP would be the equal leaders of the band. Whether it was determined at that time what roles each would take, I don't know. But as things worked out, MP ended up taking the lead to a greater degree in the creativity of the band, and JP was more focused on the business side of the band. Coincidentally, that's exactly how things are in SoA, with MP taking the lead creatively, and DS replacing JP in the business aspect.

I knew you wouldn't let me down. :lol :lol

That said, I cannot remember where I read it, but I remember during the conversations where Rudess was asked to join DT in 1998, it was made clear to him that Portnoy would be calling the shots in DT.