Oh man... that took a lot of catching up. I think Phoenix's post is the closest to how I feel about this now that I've reflected on it over night. It had some gem-worthy moments, but there were more wat the actual fuq moments. The big ones listed already - Casino sequence, Leia Poppins, too much ill-placed humour (scratching BB-8 like he's a goddamned puppy!?!?), Luke's character overall, the space-chase, bad utilization of MANY characters - I think that's my biggest beef. Not to mention a few little nits not mentioned yet:
- why the hell were four Destroyers just sitting on the sidelines watching the Rebels attack the Dreadnaught?
- Space-chase ... why not just jump to hyper space a few parsecs ahead, then jump back right in front of the fleeing rebels?
- Maz... who the hell is going to take a phone call in the middle of a shoot-out?!?!?
- Ackbar should've been the one to hyperspace the cruiser thru Snoke's ship - that would've been far more satisfying (as a great tip of the cap to an original character) than to give it to a (literally) throw away character.
- I'm a little conflicted that Ren goes from 'knowing what he has to do' and killing his father dad, to sparing Rey and killing Snoke this time around. I get his motivation of 'letting go of the past... letting it die', but how is someone so far down the dark path with his master that he'll just turn on him so easily for Rey? At least in ROTJ, Vader did it for his son.
The overall story definitely felt like a stitching together of some of best elements of ESB and ROTJ, it doesn't take much to see that. I hope that means they will finally do something ORIGINAL with ep9 - they've run out of ideas to repurpose.
I'm really struggling to give this a 6/10. The great parts were great; the bad parts were prequel bad.
Yep, I can agree with pretty much all of this. I also agree that Phoenix's post is closest to how I feel about this film.
It's not even Leia force pulling herself back to the ship. It's the fact that the Force somehow allowed her to survive in space in unimagineably cold temperatures and, you know, being in a vacuum! I don't mind (too much) some of the other force stuff that we saw in this movie, that had never been part of Star Wars lore. But the Leia thing infuriates me. She's not even a strong force user (not that I think anyone should be able to do what she did). She was sucked out into space and then unconscious! Even if you could do something to survive in space using the force (which I call bullshit on) she was unconscious! It make it look more like there was divine intervention or some bullshit. The more I think about it the more it annoys me. Luke, Vader, the emperor, they were all mortal men who could be killed like any other. If you are going to make force users more like gods then I'll be pissed off with where they take the films next!
Rant over.......for now
Basically that was my issue. The move itself wasn't a problem, it was the circumstances of being pulled out into space and unconscious/dead, and Leia not being a force user as far as we've been shown, just force sensitive.
Good point. I'm pretty sure in the EU she trained and was able to use the force but in the films she's only ever been shown to be force sensitive. That was partly why I didn't like the bit with the kids force grabbing the broom at the end. In Star Wars lore (up until this point) you have to be trained to be able to do shit like that. No one just DOES it. Actually Rey was the first to just DO stuff in TFA, with no training. But I didn't mind that as much as she was shown to be way stronger than any other untrained force user. Plus the force had awoken in her, she was special (potentially the real chosen one to bring balance to the force). Unless this kid is in the next film (and a total badass) this doesn't sit well with me.
Well, I think Disney said that anything outside the movies was not part of the cannon anymore so whatever happened in the EU is inconsecuential. We can just assume that Luke gave her some training on the basinc use of the force just in case.
And regarding people not using the force without training, I think we can safely say Anakin did in episode I because there is no way a kid could succeeed in those races without some help of the force in order to react at that speed or some can of ability to forsee what was coming.
I know that the EU is no longer canon but even within the original trilogy (and prequel trilogy) no untrained force user can force grab/throw etc. In the original trilogy Luke is not able to do anything like that until he has had training (and the force is strong with him). The same with Anakin, he only learns to do this once he starts training. In regards to Podracing, it is explained that Anakin has lightening quick reflexes. This is a by-product of being a force user, regardless of training. It was the same with Luke in the OT, he was said to be the best pilot on Tatooine and could "shoot the tail of a Wamp Rat". This is not the same as being trained to lift rocks using the force. Luke wasn't shown to be using the force, like a Jedi would, until he started training. That was the same for Anakin.
I know that Disney can now take Star Wars in any direction they want but I feel they need to respect the source material. Some people like fresh things being added in but I feel they have to respect the world this story is told in and what has previously been shown to be possible/impossible. If they suddenly decided to allow force users to fly and shoot lasers from their eyes, would we be cool with that? That's why I don't like the Leia in space scene. If you are going to do that then why not just have her flying around in space and never travelling in a ship at all??
Star Wars is just something that has been a big part of my life for the entirety of it. I have watched all the films, read countless books, played the computer games, learnt all the character names/planets/races/vehicles etc. I feel like I have a good grasp on what Star Wars is, better than most. I know there will people who know even more than me though, I'm not saying I know it all. The EU (at least the books I read) all kept within the universe that George Lucas built and never felt out of place. I know there are plenty of casual fans out there and that's fine. But when a film feels like it has been directed by a casual fan, that's when it angers me. I feel like that anyone who directs a SW film should know the series inside and out. Unfortunately TLJ doesn't feel like this to me.